Let Off %

[Reburn]

I adjusted my bow down from 90% to 80% today. Even though it looks like Texas doesn't have a max, I'd like to get used to it at a letoff percentage I can use anywhere. I hit center target first shot at 20 yards with no further adjustments. I noticed a slight difference, but it's not a lot at 60#.

Texas doesn't have any regs other then no explosive or poision tipped arrows on game animals. Any let off. Any bow #. Any sight. You can pretty much do anything.

I went down the rabbit hole and did a bunch of searching and reading regs. You will be legal to hunt almost everywhere including internationally with these setup stats.

80% let off, 525 grain arrow with fixed broadheads without barbs, no lighted nocks or sight lights. 70 lb draw.

 

[Florida Bow Hunter]

I don’t think being 5% off and after they measure it, might even be less, would cause a ticket. A bow is a bow and true wardens understand a couple % let off isn’t impacting the hunt. I equate it for getting a ticket going 60 in a 55 mph zone. There’s always a +\- variance.

I personally wouldn’t worry too much and if a warden wanted to cause an uproar over it, I’d hire a lawyer and fight them tooth and nail in court, and guess what ? You’d win. They’d drop the case because it brings bad pub and would case a ton of lost revenue from future hunters buying tags.


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[Rob5589]

I don’t think being 5% off and after they measure it, might even be less, would cause a ticket. A bow is a bow and true wardens understand a couple % let off isn’t impacting the hunt. I equate it for getting a ticket going 60 in a 55 mph zone. There’s always a +\- variance.

I personally wouldn’t worry too much and if a warden wanted to cause an uproar over it, I’d hire a lawyer and fight them tooth and nail in court, and guess what ? You’d win. They’d drop the case because it brings bad pub and would case a ton of lost revenue from future hunters buying tags.


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Maybe. But, if your bow is 85% measured, in a state with 80% limit, you are likely to be cited. Especially if the bow is marked as such. Hoping the warden is "cool" isn't something I'd want to count on. YMMV

 

[eltaco]

Sounds like you already made the decision to order the lower letoff mods, and I’m confident you’ll find you actually shoot the bow more accurately if you compare them unbiased. High letoff is a great attribute of a compound bow, but as you move into 85-90%+ letoff you find the string tension quickly drops toward 0 and the bow becomes less stable and easier to torque.

I do know in CO a game warden can field check with an Easton draw scale. So there is a way to make a measurement on the spot.

One interesting thing about bows that is little known... and really begs the question to me how legality is decided. A bow with a rotating module marked at 80% letoff is absolutely not perfectly 80% at every draw position. Some positions might be 77%, and others 83%, for example. So technically, there are probably many “illegal” bows out there without the owners even recognizing this. I’m not really sure how that could be enforceable, but I think if your module clearly states 85%+ on it, you couldn’t possibly argue your way out of it.

 

[Reburn]

Sounds like you already made the decision to order the lower letoff mods, and I’m confident you’ll find you actually shoot the bow more accurately if you compare them unbiased. High letoff is a great attribute of a compound bow, but as you move into 85-90%+ letoff you find the string tension quickly drops toward 0 and the bow becomes less stable and easier to torque.

I do know in CO a game warden can field check with an Easton draw scale. So there is a way to make a measurement on the spot.

One interesting thing about bows that is little known... and really begs the question to me how legality is decided. A bow with a rotating module marked at 80% letoff is absolutely not perfectly 80% at every draw position. Some positions might be 77%, and others 83%, for example. So technically, there are probably many “illegal” bows out there without the owners even recognizing this. I’m not really sure how that could be enforceable, but I think if your module clearly states 85%+ on it, you couldn’t possibly argue your way out of it.

I would argure with the scale method. I have tried the easton scale that measures let off and I own a last chance HS3. I have found both of them lacking in measuring let off with precision and accuracy. They are good scales and I like them but I wouldn't want to be aguring for their accuracy in court. Especially not within a pound or two. For math fun. A 70 lb bow with 80% will hold 14 lbs. 82% will hold 12.6. Thats less then a pound and a half. I have not found the handheld scales to be that accurate.

While I dont know first hand I would suspect that if you have 80% marked mods on your bow your safe. As long as you are abiding by the law. Now if your trespassing, poaching or otherwise being a punk I bet they would find as much stuff to fine you for as possible and would maybe try the scale trick at that point.

 

[mmac]

At least for Mathews the cam colors are different as well. Doesn't matter whether they do a pull if they are stated different on the cam itself.

I think the debate shouldn't be about what they can test, if you are likely to get caught or whether it actually helps or doesn't. The question should be on ethics and whether you draw your line at compliant with laws or not.

 

[TravisIN]

It will be different at first but you’ll get used to it and shoot better. It will make you feel better if you do it. Also what if by some miracle you shoot a state record or some freakishly big animal?! You’ll be under a microscope and they’ll hang you for at little mistake.


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[MattB]

I don’t think being 5% off and after they measure it, might even be less, would cause a ticket. A bow is a bow and true wardens understand a couple % let off isn’t impacting the hunt. I equate it for getting a ticket going 60 in a 55 mph zone. There’s always a +\- variance.

I personally wouldn’t worry too much and if a warden wanted to cause an uproar over it, I’d hire a lawyer and fight them tooth and nail in court, and guess what ? You’d win. They’d drop the case because it brings bad pub and would case a ton of lost revenue from future hunters buying tags.


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Or you could spend the $20 to buy compliant mods.

 

[MattB]

I would argure with the scale method. I have tried the easton scale that measures let off and I own a last chance HS3. I have found both of them lacking in measuring let off with precision and accuracy. They are good scales and I like them but I wouldn't want to be aguring for their accuracy in court. Especially not within a pound or two. For math fun. A 70 lb bow with 80% will hold 14 lbs. 82% will hold 12.6. Thats less then a pound and a half. I have not found the handheld scales to be that accurate.

While I dont know first hand I would suspect that if you have 80% marked mods on your bow your safe. As long as you are abiding by the law. Now if your trespassing, poaching or otherwise being a punk I bet they would find as much stuff to fine you for as possible and would maybe try the scale trick at that point.

MT's regulation references the let-off advertised by the manufacturer, so measured let-off is not relevant.

"The nominal percent of let-off for hunting bows shall be a maximum of 80 percent as advertised by the manufacturer "

 

[eltaco]

MT's regulation references the let-off advertised by the manufacturer, so measured let-off is not relevant.

"The nominal percent of let-off for hunting bows shall be a maximum of 80 percent as advertised by the manufacturer "

Now there’s a sensible way to write the law! Easy to follow.

 

[WMag338]

Thanks for all the good info here, fellas. New 75% mod should be on the way now. Mathews claims a 2 fps speed increase going with the 75% vs 85%. I guess it would be simple enough if this does in fact skew my sight tape and pin gap at longer distances, I could always turn my bow down 1# - say from 70# to 69# to compensate for this and should be back on the the money.

 

[Turkeygetpwnd38]

I don’t think being 5% off and after they measure it, might even be less, would cause a ticket. A bow is a bow and true wardens understand a couple % let off isn’t impacting the hunt. I equate it for getting a ticket going 60 in a 55 mph zone. There’s always a +\- variance.

I personally wouldn’t worry too much and if a warden wanted to cause an uproar over it, I’d hire a lawyer and fight them tooth and nail in court, and guess what ? You’d win. They’d drop the case because it brings bad pub and would case a ton of lost revenue from future hunters buying tags.


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I can tell you are from Florida, don’t follow the rules and hire a lawyer over the dumbest things I kid... partly. Hiring a lawyer would do nothing except drain your wallet. First, it’s a strict liability offense, there is no defense if you get caught with 85 mods in an 80 state. Second, assuming you are traveling out of state, that state does not care if you challenge their regulation (which you can’t), you aren’t even a resident. Third, are you going to continue flying you and your lawyer back and forth to the state for the court appearances? They wouldn’t drop a case that would cost them 0 to win, cause no loss of revenue because they are just enforcing regulations already on the book, and make money off you in the form of you paying the ticket, attorney fees, and court costs.

If you are going to choose to travel to a state and hunt, follow the regs. Good on you OP for choosing to.

 

[Florida Bow Hunter]

I can tell you are from Florida, don’t follow the rules and hire a lawyer over the dumbest things I kid... partly. Hiring a lawyer would do nothing except drain your wallet. First, it’s a strict liability offense, there is no defense if you get caught with 85 mods in an 80 state. Second, assuming you are traveling out of state, that state does not care if you challenge their regulation (which you can’t), you aren’t even a resident. Third, are you going to continue flying you and your lawyer back and forth to the state for the court appearances? They wouldn’t drop a case that would cost them 0 to win, cause no loss of revenue because they are just enforcing regulations already on the book, and make money off you in the form of you paying the ticket, attorney fees, and court costs.

If you are going to choose to travel to a state and hunt, follow the regs. Good on you OP for choosing to.

I always follow the laws. Never had a hunt on a let off state.

Factory mods are easily modified and also inaccurate. I’d check my bow ahead of time and see what my let off really was with a scale. If I was close, say 1-2 pounds high, I think you are within the +\- variance they allow.

Mods do different things on different cams.

I shot PSE Maxis MN cams for years. Reported to be 60% let off. They were less than 55% consistently. If the law was 55 and 60 was against the law and being they generated less than factory specs, you win that in court.

You don’t have to fly. You hire a local lawyer, they are hungry for work. All it takes is a scale.


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[IdahoHntr]

I always follow the laws. Never had a hunt on a let off state.

Factory mods are easily modified and also inaccurate. I’d check my bow ahead of time and see what my let off really was with a scale. If I was close, say 1-2 pounds high, I think you are within the +\- variance they allow.

Mods do different things on different cams.

I shot PSE Maxis MN cams for years. Reported to be 60% let off. They were less than 55% consistently. If the law was 55 and 60 was against the law and being they generated less than factory specs, you win that in court.

You don’t have to fly. You hire a local lawyer, they are hungry for work. All it takes is a scale.


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Except for the OP is hunting in Montana.. The law is already posted above. A scale ain't going to help you when your mods say 85% on them. Go ahead and hire that local lawyer. You can help out local business all while still paying your fines to the Montana FWP.

 

[Florida Bow Hunter]

Except for the OP is hunting in Montana.. The law is already posted above. A scale ain't going to help you when your mods say 85% on them. Go ahead and hire that local lawyer. You can help out local business all while still paying your fines to the Montana FWP.

If something is posted 600 HP by the factory and a dyno tests it out to be 545 HP,backed up by other dyno tests, who has the right rating ?

Sure the states fine you. It works in their benefit. But the law states we are innocent until PROVEN guilty. A stamped mod is not proven guilt until it produces what it states.

My point is, mods are always “generous” in their ratings just like IBO speeds were @ one time.

Again, if I were hunting a let off state, I’d have my bow tested in advance and even carry digital proof.

Nobody is getting a guilty charge in court until proven unless you lay down and take your unnecessary punishment.

We have rights and should use them judiciously because our licensing pays for these law officers salaries.


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[Turkeygetpwnd38]

I always follow the laws. Never had a hunt on a let off state.

Factory mods are easily modified and also inaccurate. I’d check my bow ahead of time and see what my let off really was with a scale. If I was close, say 1-2 pounds high, I think you are within the +\- variance they allow.

Mods do different things on different cams.

I shot PSE Maxis MN cams for years. Reported to be 60% let off. They were less than 55% consistently. If the law was 55 and 60 was against the law and being they generated less than factory specs, you win that in court.

You don’t have to fly. You hire a local lawyer, they are hungry for work. All it takes is a scale.


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Like stated a few times, doesn’t matter actual calculated let-off, most states specify manufacturer specs. It’s cut and dry, strict liability offense, by definition, there is no defense, google it. You are guilty when cited and burden is on prosecutor to show you broke the rule, which they will do by a picture of % let off on your mod.

 

[Swampcruiser]

South Dakota had the same rule a few years ago. I can tell you they check equipment if you harvest an animal and get checked. I got a mule deer with my Halon and the warden asked to see my equipment and he checked the bow over and commented on my 75% mods (they are silver instead of black- so it’s easy to tell). I asked if he’d ever wrote a ticket for that and he said yes, but mostly used if something else looked questionable.

 

[WMag338]

South Dakota had the same rule a few years ago. I can tell you they check equipment if you harvest an animal and get checked. I got a mule deer with my Halon and the warden asked to see my equipment and he checked the bow over and commented on my 75% mods (they are silver instead of black- so it’s easy to tell). I asked if he’d ever wrote a ticket for that and he said yes, but mostly used if something else looked questionable.

Very interesting. Thanks for the 1st hand experience on this.

 

[WMag338]

Thought I'd follow up on this. Just installed the new 75% mod today at my local pro shop. They are indeed silver as compared to the 85% mods which are black. Only shot it once at the pro-shop, so can't really comment on the draw and shooting differences, but did check speeds. 85% let off was at 268 fps and 75% let off was at 269 fps. Matthews claims a 2 fps increase going from 85%-75% , so pretty close. Hopefully this will not affect my pin gaps or sight tape. Will shoot more at home and report back on my findings. For anyone interested, changing the mods took about 5 minutes and we did have to put in a press to get the top mod in. Might could have done without, but it just needed some slack in the string to work it in place.

 

[WMag338]

For anyone interested, I just got home and shot the new setup for 60+/- shots. My thoughts:

Feel: Definitely feels tighter drawing back and much less of a valley. On the 85%, the valley was quite large. On the 75%, it feels very small. Against the wall, I definitely felt the bow was pulling against me. Took a few shots to get used to. To me, it feels like I'm holding back a lot more that 25%, but it might just be that I'm not used to it.

Accuracy/Precision: I took my normal shots at 60 yards. My initial groups were identical to the 85% mod. However, I did notice that my arm started to tire more & quicker than with the 85% mod. I usually shoot groups of 4 arrows for 30 mins-1 hour. About at the 30 minute mark, the 3rd and 4th shots were a little more difficult that on the 85%. This made me have to be more consciously watching my form. I saw myself getting lazy and not having the best form as my arm would tire and my shots would suffer. When I would improve my form, my shots were as good, if not better than the 85% mod. In my defense, the heat index here today is around 100 degrees ☀.

Steadiness: I have always noticed that I have struggled to hold the bow steady with the 85% mod from watching the sight level. With the 75% mod, it feels quite a bit more stable with the additional force pulling back. I could easily verify this from watching the sight level. It also seemed to be a bit easier to hold on target as well.

Overall: I like it. If I was shooting all day every day, I would probably go back to the 85% mod. For a hunting bow, when I will just be practicing in the off season (in hour long sessions) and hopefully only taking 1 well placed shot on an animal, I think it will do great. This will keep me legal anywhere I go, accuracy didn't suffer, speed was virtually unchanged.

If anyone has any questions on my brief experience with this, feel free to ask. Thanks to all who followed along.