Lessons from a wildfire

[Alpine4x4]

If not for Ca. heavy regulation there would be many more desalinations plants in the state which can make millions of gallons of fresh water per day. There are currently only 12 plants all with far lower capacity as that of Carlsbad plant. The largest plant in the western hemisphere is in Carlsbad Ca. in northern San Diego county. It has an output capacity of 50 million gallons per day, at a. cost of .07 cents per gal. by using reverse osmosis. By comparison there is a plant in France with the capacity of 75 million gals. per day. The reservoir which was drained for repairs had a capacity of 117 million gals. which means it would have taken just over two day to fill it if all the output of a plant the size of the Carlsbad plant went to filling the reservoir. Another thing I have always wonder about is why there is not a system in place to capture some of the trillions of gallons of rainwater that run into the ocean every year. The reason is two fold, first nobody wants the plants or the storage reservoirs in their back yard, second is the cost of the projects, well the last I heard, the cost of the current fires may run as highs 250 billion$. It's all a bunch of political BS.

Storage is going underground. My company manufactures many that are being installed in Washington. They put massive multi compartment storage tanks under parking lots and the such. The one we deal in is called Stormtrap, but there's a few others out there as well. I think the main issue with using the stormwater runoff would be filtering chemicals and sediments out.

 

[GSPHUNTER]

Storage is going underground. My company manufactures many that are being installed in Washington. They put massive multi compartment storage tanks under parking lots and the such. The one we deal in is called Stormtrap, but there's a few others out there as well. I think the main issue with using the stormwater runoff would be filtering chemicals and sediments out.

There was one just installed where I live, it has a 500k gal. capacity. It is storage for runoff only and is used for irrigation only. I think the answer to issues with runoff water can be solved by reverse osmosis filtration, cheap, prolly not, but it's one answer to water shortage issues.

 

[Billinsd]

If not for Ca. heavy regulation there would be many more desalinations plants in the state which can make millions of gallons of fresh water per day. There are currently only 12 plants all with far lower capacity as that of Carlsbad plant. The largest plant in the western hemisphere is in Carlsbad Ca. in northern San Diego county.

The other huge issue is the huge energy to run desalination plants. San Diego, and East County are building facilities, and pipelines to reclaim treated sewage and then conveying to existing untreated water reservoirs to be combined and treated to be potable. Reclaiming sewage is much cheaper and requires much less energy as ocean water, because ocean water has much higher total dissolved solids, especially salts.

 

[Billinsd]

Storage is going underground. My company manufactures many that are being installed in Washington. They put massive multi compartment storage tanks under parking lots and the such. The one we deal in is called Stormtrap, but there's a few others out there as well. I think the main issue with using the stormwater runoff would be filtering chemicals and sediments out.

The other thing would be collecting it all and storing it somewhere. Then what would you do with it? If you sent it to a sewage treatment plant, it would be very expensive to treat and reclaim. You couldn’t send it straight to a water treatment plant, because it’s too dirty. You couldn’t use it for irrigation either without treating. Individually people reclaim rain water successfully for their own irrigation.

 

[Weldor]

Maybe someone should talk to the Saudi's and the other middle east country's on how their plants work? Just a thought, they are not afraid to spend money.

 

[mt terry d]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1879225774559162713

 

[mt terry d]

Reimagining.
LA 2.0

In this situation I support the National Park Service fire policy:
Let it Burn.

 

[realunlucky]

Reimagining.
LA 2.0

In this situation I support the National Park Service fire policy:
Let it Burn.

Is letting someone's house burn to the ground and doing nothing better than actually starting the house on fire? End result still equals a burnt out house and people out on the street with nothing.

Sent from my SM-S926U using Tapatalk

 

[TaperPin]

Whole communities in California are being wiped off the map by fire. The same is NOT happening in Washington. That said insurance companies are treating WA like CA and cancelling policies for communities in fire prone areas.

Extreme fire behavior doesn’t stop at borders - didn’t Washington burn almost a million acres a decade ago? A few dry years to reduce moisture in thicker fuel sources is all it takes for entire forests to burn. Towns who have traditionally had low fire activity are lazy about fire protection - unusually low humidity will pass fire from house to house from embers that normally would go out.

In my lifetime I’ve seen a noticeable change in the occurrence of extreme fire behavior - and that’s after only 1/3 degree increase in temps every decade. Skiable snow days are less, snow banks don’t last as long, fire seasons are not the same.

The extremes in worldwide weather ups and downs will continue to get worse - it’s not a matter of IF more towns on the west coast will get wiped out, but when. You don’t even need to believe humans are responsible - even if it’s all just a normal natural cycle, the trend is easy to see.

The insurance that’s been cancelled prior to the latest fires will be huge to both the companies that pulled out, as well as the higher priced insurance that filled the void.

 

[Alpine4x4]

Extreme fire behavior doesn’t stop at borders - didn’t Washington burn almost a million acres a decade ago? A few dry years to reduce moisture in thicker fuel sources is all it takes for entire forests to burn. Towns who have traditionally had low fire activity are lazy about fire protection - unusually low humidity will pass fire from house to house from embers that normally would go out.

In my lifetime I’ve seen a noticeable change in the occurrence of extreme fire behavior - and that’s after only 1/3 degree increase in temps every decade. Skiable snow days are less, snow banks don’t last as long, fire seasons are not the same.

The extremes in worldwide weather ups and downs will continue to get worse - it’s not a matter of IF more towns on the west coast will get wiped out, but when. You don’t even need to believe humans are responsible - even if it’s all just a normal natural cycle, the trend is easy to see.

The insurance that’s been cancelled prior to the latest fires will be huge to both the companies that pulled out, as well as the higher priced insurance that filled the void.

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You missed the point. Extreme fire behavior doesn't stop at borders, correct. The fact is Washington hasn't had massive fire that have taken whole communities away. This is a product of poor planning. Communities in WA in fire prone areas are much smaller and more easily defended. I actually live in the city most likely to statistically burn in WA. The fact is California is woefully underprepaperd to defend its large communities against wildfires and said communities are in some of the worst fire country in the nation.

While global warming as a trend is irrefutable, forest management practices are front and center as the culprit. If western states managed their forests better, fire intensity would lessen over the board. This does nothing to help cali as their is little they can do with millions of people packed into a hiatorically fire prone area with no flora thinning.

Just as a side point, WA in its entirety is averaging over 100% of its historical average snowpack this year. The earth ebs and flows, even if it is gradually warming. In all honesty all more snowpack does is creat more fuel the state won't manage so that when we do get a drought year it blows up.

I would also point out that the Yacolt burn of 1902 was the largest fire in WA history until the Carlton Complex in 2014. Over a century and barely larger. My girlfriend at the time lost her family home to the Carlton fire. It was stopped at the edge of town and their house was old, poorly maintained, and on the hill as the first house to town. There was no saving it with dead cheat grass right up to the doorstep. I am intimately familiar with wildfire.

 

[TaperPin]

. The fact is California is woefully underprepaperd to defend its large communities against wildfires and said communities are in some of the worst fire country in the nation.

It’s a risk to live anywhere - fires aren’t new to the people that live there, so do you really think locals aren’t capable of electing people that meet the risk/cost profile? Do you literally think they are victims of the emergency services?

Most people don’t like to be told what to do with their properties. There are so many houses through the west that are right in the trees and the owners like it like that - are you suggesting everyone with a cabin in WY, CO, MT, NV, OR, WA or CA are the victim of their community’s leadership?

 

[Alpine4x4]

It’s a risk to live anywhere - fires aren’t new to the people that live there, so do you really think locals aren’t capable of electing people that meet the risk/cost profile? Do you literally think they are victims of the emergency services?

Most people don’t like to be told what to do with their properties. There are so many houses through the west that are right in the trees and the owners like it like that - are you suggesting everyone with a cabin in WY, CO, MT, NV, OR, WA or CA are the victim of their community’s leadership?

Clearly they aren't capable, that was proven last week. They are victims of poor leadership and defensibility. As much as it sucks to do, the greater Los Angeles area should be clear cut and maintained with no vegetation. This happens every year there, not to this extreme, but it happens. Shoot it just happened all summer. Poor infrastructure in the face of repeated threats and poor management practices.

I don't like being told I need a water tank on my property. It costs me more money. That said I'm not an idiot and I see the functionality of it.

There's only so much local communities can do to prepare their citizens short of raizing the land, but starting with sound forest management is a huge start that many states including WA are ignoring under the guise of environmentalism.

 

[TaperPin]

Clearly they aren't capable, that was proven last week. They are victims of poor leadership and defensibility. As much as it sucks to do, the greater Los Angeles area should be clear cut and maintained with no vegetation. This happens every year there, not to this extreme, but it happens. Shoot it just happened all summer. Poor infrastructure in the face of repeated threats and poor management practices.

I don't like being told I need a water tank on my property. It costs me more money. That said I'm not an idiot and I see the functionality of it.

There's only so much local communities can do to prepare their citizens short of raizing the land, but starting with sound forest management is a huge start that many states including WA are ignoring under the guise of environmentalism.

Lol
Good luck telling people to clear all vegetation off their property. You might have a hard time getting elected if that’s your platform.

You don’t want to pay for thinning WA forests - nobody does, even in areas that really need it. A governor would get laughed out of office if they suggested raising taxes to thin urban interface areas, let alone wildland.

 

[Alpine4x4]

Lol
Good luck telling people to clear all vegetation off their property. You might have a hard time getting elected if that’s your platform.

You don’t want to pay for thinning WA forests - nobody does, even in areas that really need it. A governor would get laughed out of office if they suggested raising taxes to thin urban interface areas, let alone wildland.

No actually they wouldn't, well not by the side of the state that it pertains to. In fact previous candidates have ran on that stance and won the counties that need it most. Its nearly unanimous it needs done, but the state would rather spend money reviving dopers and funding failing social programs. Its called spending our tax dollars on things that help the tax payer. WA state more than doubled Its debt to $26 billion under the former leadership with not much to show. Unfortunately states like WA, OR, and CA are governed by leaders elected by urbanites who don't know the difference between a deciduous and non deciduous tree.

 

[mt terry d]

Is letting someone's house burn to the ground and doing nothing better than actually starting the house on fire? End result still equals a burnt out house and people out on the street with nothing.

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You might pose that question to the California firefighters.

 

[Beendare]

A couple comments;

People not wanting to fire proof their house might want to look at the video demonstration Cal Fire did comparing 2 homes; one with minor fire resistant measures and the other none at all- spoiler alert, a 5' buffer saved the one house, the other was engulfed in flames in 12 minutes.

There are a few homes that practiced these design principles that are still there and in good condition. These principles should be a requirement in those areas.

The reservoir that was left dry was originally built in the 1960's BECAUSE of a horrendous fire in the same area. They determined the reservoir was essential.

The mayor was warned by the head of the fire union a month prior "people will die" if they don't stop cutting fire prevention resources for their silly social programs. She ignored it.

A big fire mitigation plan was stopped when an amateur environmentalist found a rare shrub in those hills.

Newsom made insurance companies out to be the bad guys years ago and pushed an initiative where they couldn't raise rates- many insurance companies left. Then people went to the state sponsored FAIR plan....which only has a small fund to pay for claims. Then last year Newsoms insurance commish had the insurance companies pay $1 billion and released them from any further liability- its on the HO. [how much do you think his campaign will get from insurance companies for that special favor?}

FAIR only has a tiny portion of what it will take to pay out these claims. It's Newsom's horrible policy and bad management that got this ball rolling.

Water has always been an issue in Ca.... it's not a supply problem but a storage problem. They won't build the reservoirs we need. If LA was required to take care of their own water needs with desalination and such instead of importing it from northern CA, they would look at things completely different [no lawns for sure] ...but just like reservoirs, they keep kicking the can. Instead they are spending hundreds of billions on a train from one remote farm community to another that no one will every use.

BTW, Newsoms buddy the mayor of Oakland just got indicted on multiple scams....