Lessons from a wildfire

[timbernomad]

I would be curious to know why they pile and burn it versus allowing a logging company to sell it. Just to clarify, are they burning everything cut or are they just piling and burning slash?

If the slash was a product the loggers were interested in buying, we'd usually sell it to them. In some parts of the country there are purchasers for different biomass products, but not everywhere. Where I work, the loggers wouldn't take that stuff even if we gave it to them (there are times when we can't hardly give away live sawtimber trees). So we send firewood cutters up there to try to make a dent when possible.

On a topic more related to the current fire - I used to work with private landowners on WUI-related stuff. For all the work we did, it felt like we weren't even making a dent when you consider the scale of these landscapes. It was really discouraging work to be honest.

 

[Billinsd]

With your education and 34 years of experience, what was the failure in the system? Why won't people ever know the truth?

I don’t know anything about the master plan, the maintenance, or operation of the system. Any system would be pushed to the limit or past it. It could be a lot of things. I will ask a bunch of my consultant contacts that work for LA Water and Power to get their opinion. People will never know the truth because the government will cover up any mistakes they made and the consultants will cover their golden goose that gives them contracts and vice versa. Government bureaucrats go back and forth between consulting and being government bureaucrats. It’s cronyism to another level. The government/consulting industry, like the military industrial complex is rife with corruption, waste, and incompetence. It’s awful and it’s appalling. If people understood the waste, and incompetence of the unelected bureaucrats and the danger they put them in, people would be at city hall with pitch forks. People in LA are furious and they should be! I’m extremely disillusioned with the civil engineering/government complex and anxious to retire quickly.

 

[IdahoBeav]

Maybe it was before you were born? Not as many structures as LA, 3,000 structures and 2,000 homes. At the time it was the largest and most destructive wildfire in California’s history. https://news.caloes.ca.gov/looking-back-on-the-cedar-fire-20-years-later/#:~:text=Among them was the Cedar Fire, which,Diego County, burning more than 270,000 acres

I have an aunt that has been teaching at Scripps Ranch HS for almost 30 years. I was down there visiting the year before this fire. These LA fires are already at almost 4x the number of structures, and it’s in a much more urban and densely populated area. The Cedar Fire was a very different situation with more recently developed subdivisions and far more undeveloped open space.

 

[Billinsd]

These LA fires are already at almost 4x the number of structures, and it’s in a much more urban and densely populated area. The Cedar Fire was a very different situation with more recently developed subdivisions and far more undeveloped open space.

The LA fires are almost at 4X the Cedar fire to a large degree because the LA infrastructure failed and the San Diego infrastructure did not. The Cedar fire hit many subdivisions with tiny lots with big houses lined up like dominoes. The infrastructure held, the water transmission lines held and none of it failed.

 

[IdahoBeav]

The LA fires are almost at 4X the Cedar fire to a large degree because the LA infrastructure failed and the San Diego infrastructure did not. The Cedar fire hit many subdivisions with tiny lots with big houses lined up like dominoes. The infrastructure held, the water transmission lines held and none of it failed.

It’s a very different setting, though. The infrastructure in NW LA is much, much older, as are the structures, and it’s far more dense. A hillside subdivision in Blossom Valley is much different than Brentwood.

 

[Billinsd]

It’s a very different setting, though. The infrastructure in NW LA is much, much older, as are the structures, and it’s far more dense. A hillside subdivision in Blossom Valley is much different than Brentwood.

The infrastructure is older in LA, and a hillside subdivision is more open in Blossom Valley, which is very rural, however the subdivisions in Miramar and Scripts have much much closer housing like LA. I was involved in both subdivisions. La Jolla is much more like NW LA and it’s old. What’s different in San Diego, which is as old as LA is that virtually ALL of San Diego’s infrastructure has been updated, almost all of the water infrastructure, 99%. Even in the very oldest areas. Even the poorest, crummiest, oldest areas in San Diego APPEARS to have better water infrastructure than some of the wealthiest areas of LA.

 

[Iowafarmer]

Maybe the main lesson should be DEI doesn’t work we should hire people based on their qualifications rather than what DEI boxes they check off

 

[carlc]

What would be wrong with cutting all the dead timber, hauling it off the mountain and having people use it to hear their homes? Be a great organic green energy rather than burning piles of it on the forest.

I am in the fire mitigation business in Montana. The frustrating part about trying to do exactly this, is that it is more expensive than a simple pile and burn. I run small processors and masticators, and my bids get beat all the time by hand crews. All the FS and other agencies care about is the lowest bid.

 

[go_deep]

I am in the fire mitigation business in Montana. The frustrating part about trying to do exactly this, is that it is more expensive than a simple pile and burn. I run small processors and masticators, and my bids get beat all the time by hand crews. All the FS and other agencies care about is the lowest bid.

I can see where they're looking for the lowest bid, doesn't make it right.

I've often wondered if the closest town to the mountain has ever considered putting up their own small power plant, powered by wood fire and making use of it that way too.

 

[GSPHUNTER]

There were without a doubt mistakes made, and Unintended consequences, rolling power outages during high winds to prevent fires from downed power lines cut power to pumping stations, 117 million gal. reservoir drained for maintenance just prior to fires. Just to name a couple. the bottom line is, with winds like we had, controlling the fires was next to impossible. Because of the winds, fires fighting aircraft were grounded which really cause a major problem controlling the fire. The Sunset fire was bought under control in pretty short order the next night because the wind had died down enough to allow aircraft to hit the fire. As a results, the evacuation orders were lifted, any remaining fire was burning away from structures.

 

[carlc]

I can see where they're looking for the lowest bid, doesn't make it right.

I've often wondered if the closest town to the mountain has ever considered putting up their own small power plant, powered by wood fire and making use of it that way too.

There are towns with incinerators in the US, but most of them burn trash. The Canadians (or our next state) have some biomass incinerators that utilized ground slash hauled in live bottom trailers. I'm really hoping that something like this could be incentivized In the near future.

 

[TuckTruck]

There’s been so many bureaucratic failures in the past few years that my take away is Nobody is coming to save you.

 

[ODB]

Maybe the main lesson should be DEI doesn’t work we should hire people based on their qualifications rather than what DEI boxes they check off

Not to rag on the DEI stuff.. but the statement by the fire chief (or whatever her title) that is going around where she responded to being challenged whether or not she could lift a man out of a building and she said that if the man was in the position of needing to be hauled out it was his fault - should be enshrined in every HR idiots office as to WHY DEI is a pernicious evil and immediately disqualifying for anyone who tries to spread it. The pathetic thing is that for years now it has been drummed into the heads of leadership that is the way of the future... insanity

 

[GSPHUNTER]

Not to rag on the DEI stuff.. but the statement by the fire chief (or whatever her title) that is going around where she responded to being challenged whether or not she could lift a man out of a building and she said that if the man was in the position of needing to be hauled out it was his fault - should be enshrined in every HR idiots office as to WHY DEI is a pernicious evil and immediately disqualifying for anyone who tries to spread it. The pathetic thing is that for years now it has been drummed into the heads of leadership that is the way of the future... insanity

And she is in a position of authority. Tell me she did not get that position because of DEI. She need to be fired yesterday.

 

[CJ19]

If you hear about fellow American’s house burning down and immediately launch into a political tirade or shit eating grin comments on the internet, pat yourself on the back….you are not a good person.

Not to rag on the DEI stuff.. but the statement by the fire chief (or whatever her title) that is going around where she responded to being challenged whether or not she could lift a man out of a building and she said that if the man was in the position of needing to be hauled out it was his fault - should be enshrined in every HR idiots office as to WHY DEI is a pernicious evil and immediately disqualifying for anyone who tries to spread it. The pathetic thing is that for years now it has been drummed into the heads of leadership that is the way of the future... insanity

the same DEI "lense" contributing to the issue in CA has been implemented across every federal agency per directive of the Biden Administration. including federal wildfire programs.

 

[Athens]

leaving California has been one of the wisest decision i ever made.

 

[Athens]

the same DEI "lense" contributing to the issue in CA has been implemented across every federal agency per directive of the Biden Administration. including federal wildfire programs.

Hiring people for the race/ethnicity and not their merits.

 

[Rich M]

The main lesson for me revolves around the govt and DEI and general inadequacy. Then we have the arsonists... Anyway, a sad situation.

What it should tell everyone is to be prepared to take care of yourself. Yes, most of those folks were city slickers. They still could have got in their vehicle or hopped a bus out of dodge once the prospects told them it was coming.

For those who do not know - the big fires get so hot that buildings spontaneously combust. It isn't burning per say but so flipping hot that they just go poof.

 

[Billinsd]

There were without a doubt mistakes made, and Unintended consequences, rolling power outages during high winds to prevent fires from downed power lines cut power to pumping stations, 117 million gal. reservoir drained for maintenance just prior to fires.

Pump stations should have working generators that are maintained and tested to ensure they will operate in an emergency. Good question, why was the reservoir being maintained at this time of year during fire season?

 

[Billinsd]

The main lesson for me revolves around the govt and DEI and general inadequacy. Then we have the arsonists... Anyway, a sad situation.

My lesson is not to buy a house in a very vulnerable place. It appears many people could not get fire insurance? It’s getting difficult, expensive to get any kind of insurance in California. The government hates insurance companies, hates businesses, and makes things as hard as possible for them.