Less NR Deer tags soon to come in MT

[Fireflyfishing]

Fish and Wildlife Commission votes to reduce nonresident deer licenses

The changes are aimed at reducing hunting pressure on public land and bringing the state’s flagging mule deer population out of a multiyear decline.

montanafreepress.org

 

[Jaden Bales]

Interesting. Just crunched some numbers on this. We can all agree Montana is probably the most liberal mule deer hunting state in the union. Nevada is probably the most conservative of the West.

That said, there are about as many deer in Region 7 as the entire state of Nevada. 2024 Nevada mule deer harvest: 5,367 mule deer. 2024 Montana Region 7 mule deer harvest: 7238 mule deer. That's a 8% harvest of the population in Nevada versus 10% in Montana. This is assuming harvest estimates are somewhat effective.

While crowding certainly is real, I just am consistently worried we believe hunters have a bigger impact on the critters that are out there than we do. Can we shoot out the top age class, I'd say so! Especially because we are selecting for the top few percentage of bucks. But, as weather patterns are favorable, Montana will likely bounce back to 2019-2021 numbers and I'd like to see opportunity bounce back the same. Just don't see it happening and a Montana General opportunity hunt will take 5 preference points to draw in a few years.

This is more overall commentary on trends in the West and I don't see it being great for keeping nonresidents advocating for habitat and access. Just making the pie smaller.

 

[Fireflyfishing]

Well, there’s no doubt liberal hunting seasons are an issue. I think reduction in tags to the NR hunters is a good start, but I would like to see more draw tags for residents as well.

 

[realunlucky]

Non residents are an easy target but rarely have that much impact on a resource. We could look at the data but montana currently only half ass collects it and then FWP fakes the rest with out dated modeling. Push for mandatory reporting so you can make it intelligent arguments based on factual harvest numbers.

You want bigger and better deer hunting in montana don't hunt them for weeks on end when they are the most vulnerable.



Sent from my SM-S926U using Tapatalk

 

[freezerfull]

Here are a few things that have not been done that could provide data on what’s actually happening and improve the situation.

- Want to know what’s actually going on: implement mandatory hunter reporting.

- Want to rebuild numbers: stop allowing doe harvest.

- Want better age class: stop hunting November.

- Want less pressure: region specific tags for both res and non res; get rid of discounted NR tag programs; species specific general tags (MD or WT, must choose); move B tag doe seasons (IMO there should be no MD doe hunting in most states at this time) to dates that differ from general season.

Instead FWP decides to cut the full price general season buck tags to appease people. I’m sure this will really help things rebound.

 

[270Hunter]

Interesting. Just crunched some numbers on this. We can all agree Montana is probably the most liberal mule deer hunting state in the union. Nevada is probably the most conservative of the West.

That said, there are about as many deer in Region 7 as the entire state of Nevada. 2024 Nevada mule deer harvest: 5,367 mule deer. 2024 Montana Region 7 mule deer harvest: 7238 mule deer. That's a 8% harvest of the population in Nevada versus 10% in Montana. This is assuming harvest estimates are somewhat effective.

While crowding certainly is real, I just am consistently worried we believe hunters have a bigger impact on the critters that are out there than we do. Can we shoot out the top age class, I'd say so! Especially because we are selecting for the top few percentage of bucks. But, as weather patterns are favorable, Montana will likely bounce back to 2019-2021 numbers and I'd like to see opportunity bounce back the same. Just don't see it happening and a Montana General opportunity hunt will take 5 preference points to draw in a few years.

This is more overall commentary on trends in the West and I don't see it being great for keeping nonresidents advocating for habitat and access. Just making the pie smaller.

Say it louder for the people in the back!!!!

Well said!

 

[freezerfull]

Hopefully it’s 2500 less Washington clowns in this state that would be the best thing to come of it. Ruined your own

the Washington feelings are all sorts of butt hurt in all these forums and on Facebook… god forbid a few 130” muley bucks survive the Washington plague

Interesting opinion and attitude. Have you spent time in Washington hunting and/or observing mule deer here?

What exactly do you consider the ideal mule deer situation in Montana? No nonresidents?

From the other thread it seems that you pass on many 150”-170” muley bucks. Is this because you are concerned about the population or do you think they are too young? 80% of mule deer bucks will never exceed 170” in their lives if left to die of old age.

 

[jimmy33]

Interesting opinion and attitude. Have you spent time in Washington hunting and/or observing mule deer here?

What exactly do you consider the ideal mule deer situation in Montana? No nonresidents?

From the other thread it seems that you pass on many 150”-170” muley bucks. Is this because you are concerned about the population or do you think they are too young? 80% of mule deer bucks will never exceed 170” in their lives if left to die of old age.

Wow! 406huntermt seems like he knows everything. Ive never hunted montana deer, but one thing I know for a fact is its not the 2500 “washington clowns” ruining hunting in montana or washington hunters ruining hunting in washington, its the game and fish in washington that is the problem. As far as montana is concerned, its obvious to me the problem is the sheer length of season for the deer. When was the last time non resident tag allocations grew in montana? What is the percentage of revenue for the montana game and fish that those washington clown tag prices bring. You sir, 406huntermt, are a troll. Educate yourself then return and contribute.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BRTreedogs]

Pretty sure it’s not non residents that demand mule deer Doe hunting must NOT be reduced.
“Because you would be taking food rite off the table of my children “

When I talked with a MT Warden he said residents flip out if mule deer doe opportunity reductions are even mentioned.

 

[skeptic]

You want bigger and better deer hunting in montana don't hunt them for weeks on end when they are the most vulnerable.

I think this is probably the most logical idea and most easily implemented.

nteresting opinion and attitude. Have you spent time in Washington hunting and/or observing mule deer here?

Do people from Montana go to Washington to hunt? I am sure it's happened, but probably not near to the extent that MT absorbs hunters from all over the place. I don't really have an issue with out of state hunters, I have hosted a few here myself. I do believe that if you are a non-resident, it should be more difficult to draw a tag for a state you don't live in. I would expect the same thing if I decided to hunt in another state.

 

[Turkeygetpwnd38]

There’s about 100 things that could be done first before taking opportunity away. I’m guessing this is a “throw people a bone” move after completely ignoring the several citizens group recommendations on season setting.

Non residents are the easy scapegoat but 95% of MT mule deer woes have nothing to do with NR.

 

[freezerfull]

Do people from Montana go to Washington to hunt? I am sure it's happened, but probably not near to the extent that MT absorbs hunters from all over the place. I don't really have an issue with out of state hunters, I have hosted a few here myself. I do believe that if you are a non-resident, it should be more difficult to draw a tag for a state you don't live in. I would expect the same thing if I decided to hunt in another state.

I agree, very few in comparison. I know a couple of ID and MT residents that hunt WA mule deer annually, they have friends who are WA residents that they share camp or hunt with. They are successful pretty much every year.

The better question would be how many MT residents hunt mule deer out of state in ID, WY, CO, AZ, etc. Cause there are quite a few.

 

[freezerfull]

When was the last time non resident tag allocations grew in montana?

Not during my lifetime that I’m aware of, except for discounted tags (come home to hunt, etc.) that were supported by residents who had family out of state.

As far as montana is concerned, its obvious to me the problem is the sheer length of season for the deer.

The timing of the season is a much bigger issue. Long seasons help spread pressure out, especially if they don’t have a “prime time” in them such as the peak rut.

or washington hunters ruining hunting in washington, its the game and fish in washington that is the problem.

Correct. Governor and commission in bed with eco extremists. Poor policy decisions after bad winters in the 90’s. Policy led by urbanites that love their cuddly predators.

 

[jkoehle1]

There’s about 100 things that could be done first before taking opportunity away. I’m guessing this is a “throw people a bone” move after completely ignoring the several citizens group recommendations on season setting.

Non residents are the easy scapegoat but 95% of MT mule deer woes have nothing to do with NR.

They harvest more mule deer in r6 and r7 than R do.

So - taking over half of the resource has nothing to do with it?

 

[jkoehle1]

There’s about 100 things that could be done first before taking opportunity away. I’m guessing this is a “throw people a bone” move after completely ignoring the several citizens group recommendations on season setting.

Non residents are the easy scapegoat but 95% of MT mule deer woes have nothing to do with NR.

They harvest more mule deer in r6 and r7 than R do.

So - taking over half of the resource has nothing to do with it?

 

[freezerfull]

Pretty sure it’s not non residents that demand mule deer Doe hunting must NOT be reduced.
“Because you would be taking food rite off the table of my children “

When I talked with a MT Warden he said residents flip out if mule deer doe opportunity reductions are even mentioned.

See below for region 7 2024. Very estimated data. Seems does are favored by residents substantially more than NR. Though points on a buck have little to do with age and maturity, it seems both residents and non residents likely take the same percentage of dinks each year in this region.

 

[ckleeves]

Should fix all the problems. With those 2500 non res gone I think they could bump up doe tag numbers a little more and maybe drop the res tag price to -10.00 and it wouldn’t hurt to push season out thru January. It can be tricky finding a doe from the front seat of your pickup in Oct but by Jan the “gotta feed my family” guys should be able to finally pin that tag on the elusive mule deer doe.

 

[UpNorth89]

I do believe that if you are a non-resident, it should be more difficult to draw a tag for a state you don't live in

That's currently how it is.

 

[skeptic]

The better question would be how many MT residents hunt mule deer out of state in ID, WY, CO, AZ, etc. Cause there are quite a few.

Most of my evidence is purely anecdotal, but I have noticed most of the hunters I know that have gone to those states for mule deer are what I would call "serious hunters". Guys (and gals I guess) who are way more interested in killing a mature buck than punching a tag with any ol animal.

Whatever the case may be, I am open to trying just about anything with regards to mule deer in MT that is different than what it is now.

I do have to chuckle when I see all the quotes that have data regarding populations of critters in MT. Some of this data is wildly flawed and my own experiences with Montana FWP, and their employees, have led me to have a much more critical eye towards their means and methods. Alot of it really isn't even their fault, but they are a small group of people in a really big state. They are usually 2-4 years behind the curve when it comes to instituting new polices or modifying ones that are already in place.

 

[skeptic]

That's currently how it is.

I agree. I guess my definition of "harder" is more akin to drawing a moose, sheep, or goat, tag in my home state. I completely realize that is never going to happen (especially with the guides and outfitters lobby). I think the opportunity to hunt MT if you are from out of state every 4-5 years seems reasonable. I know if I had the desire to hunt other states I would be okay with that if they had the same policies in place.