Learning How to Reload

[TheJuice]

Hey guys, I'm a bow hunter from central Iowa that hasn't had much use for a rifle except that we have a late antlerless season in which we are allowed to hunt with rifles. This year they have eliminated that part of the whitetail season. With that being said, I have an interest in rifle hunting elk. I've been only 2 times to CO in the last 3 years DIY archery. Missed my first year and this year spent 7 days, 5 miles in, and saw only 3 elk the whole time.

Enough of the whining though. Some of these custom builds here have got my juices flowing to build a rifle. But before I get ahead of myself I want to learn reloading and load development on my current rifle.

Tikka T3 Hunter Walnut/Blue 30/06
Burris 3x9x40 Fullfield II

To date it has acceptable 300yd accuracy. My best factory ammo groups just at MOA. It seems to like 150's better than 165's or 180's.

So I've read Lee's "Modern Reloading 2nd Edition", and as many forums and posts as I have time for.
I've ordered from Cabelas (Had points to burn)
Lee Breech Lock Challenger Kit
Lyman TS-700 Sonic Cleaner
RCBS Chargemaster 1500 Scale
RCBS Powder Trickler
RCBS Steel Calipers
Hornady Custom Grade Dies 30-06
RCBS Neck Sizer Die 30-06
Bullet sample packs 150 Nosler AB / 150 Barnes TTSX / Berger 168 VLD Hunt. (They didn't have any 150's)

From Midway since Cabelas did not have any Lee dies.
Lee Collet 2-Die Neck sizer
Lee Quick Trim Die
Lee Factory Crimp Die
Lee Case Length Gauge
Misc. boxes shell holders etc.

I'm pretty sure I just want to neck size and not full length size my once fired brass after reading Lee's book, AKA 612 page add for Lee products.

So I got anxious and de-primed my brass.
60rds Winchester
60rds Hornady

Now I'm trying to ring out as much accuracy out of this ammo as possible, so after getting them all cleaned up, I put a caliper on every piece of brass, just checking case length.

Both brands of brass range from 2.473- 2.489
Do I just trim all the brass down to the shorter length?

I plan on sorting brass by weight and only neck sizing.

Start loads at starting weight and work in .5 grain increments to max loads.

What's your best way to find a starting seating depth?

I'm going to start shooting 100yd groups then maybe 200 before current scope will limit my grouping reliability.

Then I may look at bedding the walnut stock. Is this worth messing with or should I get one of the Bell & Carlson Medalists Stocks? They are much cheaper than a McMillan or Manners etc. I'll save one of those options for a future build.

All this is to learn reloading and a little stock prep.

We'll see how much I actually get done on this as we are on the cusp of pre-rut here in Iowa.

Looking forward to any suggestions you have. It is greatly appreciated.

 

[WonkyWapiti]

I bought a Hornady lock and load kit a while back and have yet to set it up. I've been meaning to finally get my bench cleaned up in the garage this week and get everything set up.

 

[LaHunter]

I would suggest buying and reading the Sierra manual as well as the Nosler manual. I also have the Lee manual. Just my 2 cents, but I don't feel the Lee manual provides the same level of quality info as the other 2 manuals I mentioned. My impression of the Lee manual is that it is constantly giving a sales message for Lee products rather than giving good technical info. The Sierra web site also has some very good info on the basics of reloading.

 

[PintsOfCraft]

Looks like you've got the equipment to get started.

I'd set your case trimmer up to the 2.484" min. case length. If a case is shorter than that, just chamfer the case mouth and let them grow as you fire them. After the first few firings, the cases should grow past the allowable 2.494" and should all be trimmed back to the 2.484" again.

Neck sizing is cool, just make sure that you keep a clean chamber in a hunting rifle - because of the tighter tolerances cases can be sticky to remove if any field grit or other debris enters. I know accuracy is enhanced but some still FL resize for the added reliability in feeding...just a thought.

Seating depth is unique to each rifle/bullet combination. I set up a dummy round (no primer or powder) and seat the bullet into the case bit by bit until the action will close on the round. Sometimes I'll blacken the bullet with either soot or a sharpie. Then as the round is chambered the, it can be determined if the rifling is contacting the bullet and make finer adjustments based upon what is found and individual accuracy goals. This makes it easy to re-set your seating die as you change bullets - you can return to a proven dimension.

I'd shoot a few loads with different seating depths as the only variable - your rifle may prefer something unique.

When you are getting started, read all you can from reputable writers or publishers. I'd learn to create a system that works for you to ensure that no steps are missed or corners are cut. After doing this research, actually reloading and shooting your reloads while chronicling your results will accelerate your knowledge and enjoyment.

Stocks and cosmetics are your call - no real wrong answers. B&C Medalist stocks are rough but can be bedded and made to enhance accuracy while being ugly and ergonomically weird. McMillan & Manners are works of art and manufactured at much different quality (and price) levels and for different purposes I suppose.

One quick final suggestion - use Imperial Sizing Lube for your case lube if you can - much less messy and works great.

Anyhow, just my .02 I hope it helps!

 

[RMLamp]

If you want to spend a few dollars these are pretty handy for finding seating depth. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/570611/hornady-lock-n-load-overall-length-gage-bolt-action

 

[TheJuice]

Thanks for the input thus far. What do you guys think about the method of using a cut(split) neck, dummy round that allows a bullet to be set back by the lands to determine length to lands for a specific bullet.
Is this a reliable way to determine max lenth to ogive?
I understand you would not set a bullet tight to the lands for obvious pressure concerns.
If so, how much of a jump to the lands would you start with?

As far as brass length goes. I plan on using the Lee Factory Crimp Die for consistant pressures. Anyone trimming shorter that 2.484? I understand alot of the reloading manuals are saying that .010 shorter than SAAMI case length of 2.494 is the minimum. Yet SAAMI says that .020 shorter than max is the minimum.

At least 1/2 of my 1X fired brass is shorter than 2.484. These have not been sized yet, just fire formed. I've read that cases can shorten due to the first fire form as they expand to the chamber. Should I full lenth size them once and stretch them to lenghten them?

I've got alot to learn.........

 

[PintsOfCraft]

I think once you resize, you'll find they stretch a bit. I'm old school and never used any gadgets to find a particular seating depth other than trial, error and a dummy round. Sometimes you'll end up moving the estimated correct seating depth based upon performance (grouping) anyhow. The new tools probably work great and I should look into them - like the tool above, Hornady makes good stuff.

Sounds like you're having fun looking into this new hobby.

 

[PintsOfCraft]

After re-reading your last post again, I realize that I skirted your questions a bit.

There is no set distance to set the bullet off of the lands. Every rifle is different. I've got a .338-06 that wants its bullets jammed into the lands, making obvious marks in the bullet at extraction. My Weatherby rifles will never even be close due to the built in free bore. Whats shoots right is right. Granted, most cup & core bullets like to be close, most all copper bullets seem to prefer more of a jump into the rifling. I'm speaking very generally because its important to find your own rifles desires, not what some guy on a forum said. Heck, your magazine may ultimately set your max length for you even if longer rounds shoot better; rounds must feed smoothly.

FL resizing will definitely stretch brass more than Neck only. That said, I wouldn't FL just to stretch the brass. Get a firing (practice) out of them and soon enough you'll be trimming to a common length. a few thousandths won't be noticed. You'll have greater variables to cope with. Barrel heating, crosshair thickness, rest stability, trigger control, action & barrel harmonics, bedding etc. that effect accuracy much more than a minute case length difference.

I've never crimped a bolt action rifle round while I load from .222 to .338 WM. Sometimes a 30-30 (tube mag) or my .44 Rem Mag in my revolver to eliminate bullet creep. Just my .02 - not sure thats gospel, I just haven't ever done it. Somebody here surely can educate us both on proper bullet crimp protocol.

I've been trimming 30-06 to 2.484" for a long time - you may get more than one resizing before the need to trim again. I cant add much to the conversation about trimming shorter than that or leaving them longer. Personally I don't like to trim cases every time they are reloaded if the cases are under max length.

Anyhow, I hope this helps.

 

[Justin Crossley]

I don't personally crimp rifle cases either. Seems to work well for me.

For your Tikka, your magazine will limit your seating depth. I just start by loading the longest o.a.l. that fits without feeding issues and adjust down from there as needed.

I think you'll have better luck with the Berger 168 classic hunters than the 168 VLDs. I usually get better results with them in factory Tikkas.

I have also found that Tikkas usually like loads that are at or close to max.

As far as the stock goes, you shouldn't have any trouble getting that rifle to shoot sub minute from the factory. I personally would only change it if you just don't like it.

 

[TheJuice]

Thanks Justin.
Would you recommend bedding the factory stock then? Should I replace the aluminum lug/key with a steel one? If so, can you recommend a bedding compound or kit? Lastley, should I install pillars when bedding?
Thanks for your help.

 

[Justin Crossley]

Personally, I would only mess with the stock if it doesn't shoot to your expectations. I had a .270 Tikka T3 hunter and it shot .5 moa with hand loads.

 

[TheJuice]

Check,
I'd be more than satisfied with .5 moa. I'll hold off bedding until I find the right load. Then may proceed with bedding to learn how to do it, if nothing else.

 

[Backstrap]

Was the brass you have fired in this rifle? If not, I'd do a FL re-size and firing before starting to neck size only. I'm glad you're holding off on bedding the stock. Wood stocks are beautiful to look at but not too practical in the field. Wood moves a lot. You live in low and humid Iowa. Going to high and dry elevations in Colorado will definitely move that stock. Save your change and buy a good after market synthetic but only after you've wrung out as much accuracy with the current set up.

 

[TheJuice]

Yes. All the brass I have have been fired in this rifle

 

[TheJuice]

Update on reloading.

Thanks all for your input.

I went ahead and full length sized all the once fired brass, sure as crap, they almost all needed trimming. Trimmed them back to 2.484.
Loaded 4 different bullets. Nosler BT, Nosler AB, Barnes TTSX (All 150's), and Berger VLDH 168.
Used Remington Magnum primers behind H414 in 54.0 - 54.5 - 55.0 - 55.5 grain loads.
Did not crimp any rounds as your comments have indicated it is really not needed. I may yet try it once I find the best load to see if there is any significance to it. Probably not but trying to keep the variables to a minimum at this point.
Do not yet have a bullet comparator or a concentricity guage as of yet. So exact jump to the lands and runout? Not perfect I'm sure.
Determined COAL with a dummy, split neck case and individual bullets. Took the longest sample of each brand and slowly chambered them and let the lands seat the bullet and measured OAL. I'm limited to OAL of 3.355 in my magazine to feed reliably. That left a .008 jump to the lands with both Noslers, .010 jump with the Barnes, and a .027 jump with the Bergers. Not exact, but with my method, that's what I think I have. I realize there will be some significant discrepancies but this is a short to mid-range hunting rifle after all.

So I made it to the range for a quick hour on the way to a job and here's the results.

Temp 54* - 5 mph cross wind - pretty dry conditions - 100yds 3-shot

View attachment 20566
View attachment 20567
View attachment 20568
View attachment 20569

This was all I had time for. All but the Barnes groups are what I was getting with factory ammo. Now granted, alot of the grouping could be my fault, as I have not shot rifle very often in the past. Maybe 80 rounds a year. And I'm looking through a 3x9x40 Burris that had the reticle covering the red bullseye, completely. I will need to look into a different target for next session.

By the way, I'm thrilled with the group/s I got out of the Barnes. I'll see next time around, as I shoot the hotter loads, if it holds up or if I lucked into a good group.

Let me know your thoughts on these groups and what I can learn from them.

Thanks

 

[WonkyWapiti]

Juice you got me motivated. I've mounted my press to my bench and just picked up a tumbler today. I'm currently on my second batch of .223 through the tumbler. I've got to work the rest of the weekend but it's at least baby steps for me.

 

[TheJuice]

HaHa. Glad I could help.
I've found it to be a lot of fun thus far. I'm sure it can be quite addicting.

 

[AZ Vince]

Juice,
Since the Barnes load is shooting MOA I think I'd try seating the bullet deeper to see if that improves accuracy.
Barnes, IIRC, recommends a bullet jump of 0.050" to start. My .338 Win Mag likes a 0.070" jump.
Just some food for thought.

 

[Clarktar]

Awesome thread. I moved away from my old-timer neighbor who had the equipment, and we would sit and load together. Now I need to find a good deal on a press and start my own reloading habit!

 

[TheJuice]

So I was able to make it out and fire the rest of the first batch. As I approach the max load the groups across the board are tightening up just as Justin said they might.
The Barnes TTSX 150 proved to be the best overall performer with groups:
H414 54.0 - 0.490 MOA
54.5 - 1.093
55.0 - 1.129
55.5 - 0.604

View attachment 20780

The Nosler AB 150 in second:
H414 54.0 - 1.327 MOA
54.5 - No Data(had a primer not go off on 3rd round, never had that happen...I did not like handling that case!)
55.0 - 0.308
55.5 - 0.932

View attachment 20781

Nosler BT 150 in third:
H414 54.0 - 1.842 MOA
54.5 - 1.421
55.0 - 0.934
55.5 - 1.078

View attachment 20782

The Berger VLDH 168 were:
H414 54.0 - 1.638
54.5 - 0.808
55.0 - 2.030
55.5 - 2.092
I new my rifle liked 150's better than anything else in the past, so I did not expect much out of the these.

So I bought 50 round of each of the AB 150, TTSX 150, and will try a box of Hornaday GMX 150
My book shows 56.0 grains as max load and I noticed that the primers were starting to flatten out just a bit at 55.5

So my questions are:
1. I noticed some vertical stringing. Is this a shooting form issue? Or a velocity deviation? Etc.?
2. Would you run the same ladder with the GMX or anytime you choose a new bullet that you don't have data on?
3. I plan on loading the AB and TTSX to 56.0 max. Or should I stop, since I started to see the primer start to flatten out?
4. Do you pick the best grouping and load the same, experimenting with seating depth, neck sizing vs full length, different primer? I plan on shooting these in 5-shot groups to reduce the luck factor.

What do you guys think?
Thanks