Layering a Quilt vs a Warmer Sleeping Bag

[R_burg]

Hey guys, I still can't decide what route to go and I'd love to hear some other opinions, especially from anyone that has tried both.

I have a couple hunts this winter where average lows in the areas are 10-15 degrees. I sleep cold. I just stepped up to an Xtherm from my XLite, and that should help.

Im trying to decide between a high end zero degree bag (WM or Feathered Friends) vs adding a 40 degree quilt to my arsenal and using that plus my REI Igneo 19 when its cold. FWIW the REI Igneo really only gets me down to 30 or so comfortably when I've used it previously with the NeoAir Xlite. I had some nights in the high teens and I was cold and had trouble sleeping.

My goal this year is to get my sleep system dialed in. The lack of REM sleep in the field is costing me.

 

[Savage99]

Subbed. I'll need to add something to my EMS 20 degree bag. I was comfortable down to ~20, but once in the teens and I was downright cold.


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[oldgrowth]

I went through this a couple years back. I was using a quality synthetic bag rated to 0 degrees nd a exped synmat. At 30 degrees and lower I was losing sleep and just downright cold. I tried wearing my clothes and a puffy to bed, and that helped keep me warmer(marginally), but it was a major hassle every time I rolled over. It felt like being in a straight jacket! I finally upgraded to a downmat and purchased a Western mountaineering 0 degree bag. This made all the difference, I have slept comfortably down into the teens with nothing but a pair of boxers. It added a bit more weight to my sleep system but it was worth every ounce of weight being able to sleep comfortably. I was nervous about down at first, but I haven't had an issue yet. Even in wet weather. I hope this helps!

 

[Read1t48]

I think the answer can vary a lot. For someone who does warmer hunts and a few colder ones, I would suggest a modular system. But one bag is very versatile, too - just leave it open in warmer weather.
With new technologies, even a 15 degree bag can be very light.

 

[R_burg]

I think the answer can vary a lot. For someone who does warmer hunts and a few colder ones, I would suggest a modular system. But one bag is very versatile, too - just leave it open in warmer weather.
With new technologies, even a 15 degree bag can be very light.

I do live in a hot climate... but I used my 19 degree bag (IMO more like a 30 degree bag, thats what I think the equivalent is for WM) in the low 50's this summer and it was perfectly fine. If I unzipped it and laid it out I am sure I would have no issues in the 60's... so I am not sure how much use I would get from the 40 degree quilt. That being said, the IDEA of the versatility is very appealing.

 

[justinspicher]

Why not wear your clothing layers you're already carrying and use a 40* quilt?

 

[R_burg]

Why not wear your clothing layers you're already carrying and use a 40* quilt?

I have worn my layers, it didnt make a huge difference for me.

Im tall and skinny and have low body fat, I sleep pretty cold compared to a big guy that has a few extra pounds on him.

 

[colonel00]

I have worn my layers, it didnt make a huge difference for me.

Im tall and skinny and have low body fat, I sleep pretty cold compared to a big guy that has a few extra pounds on him.

I find this comment curious and I don't mean any offense but do your layers keep you warm when you aren't sleeping in them? Just seems odd that you wear these clothes that can't insulate you when you are stagnant (regardless of your tall, skinny, low body fat, no extra pounds body) yet they don't warm you when covered in extra insulation? What do you deem as "layers" exactly? I think that would help the discussion.

 

[R_burg]

I find this comment curious and I don't mean any offense but do your layers keep you warm when you aren't sleeping in them? Just seems odd that you wear these clothes that can't insulate you when you are stagnant (regardless of your tall, skinny, low body fat, no extra pounds body) yet they don't warm you when covered in extra insulation? What do you deem as "layers" exactly? I think that would help the discussion.

I have worn all my layers, minus my puffy which I put in my footbox to keep my feet warm. I was not warm in the high teens in a "19 degree bag". As said above, judging my bag vs the WM's, which everyone agrees are the warmest, I would say my probably competes against WM's 30 degree bag, which would make sense as it is fine around 30 degrees. It would also make sense because the comfort rating on my bag is 30 degrees. I get cold and wake up a lot in the mid to low 20's and in the high teens I dont really sleep.

I probably didnt respond as well as I should have to that previous post because, no offense, but obviously I've tried adding layers in my current bag. We are on a gear forum after all, I've tried all the normal things I could before thinking about spending 400-700 on a new sleeping bag. A rhetorical question of "why dont you do X" isnt giving me any info. Does that work for you? How many degrees do you think it adds? Etc etc would actually give me some info.

I have a fully outfitted clothing kit, theres no point in listing it... its comprised of Kuiu, Arcteryx and other random brands.

Base + mids + puffy around my feet (and thick socks of course). I bring an extra synthetic base layer for sleeping as I dont want to be sleeping in my base layer I wear during the day (which is wool btw).

 

[colonel00]

Just asking a simple question to better understand the situation. "I" can layer a quilt or wear extra clothes in my 30* quilt below freezing and be fine. If you've tried that then it seems that it doesn't work for you. Therefore I can only assume that layering quilts won't work either. I have a buddy that is always cold (and we always give him a hard time about it) but you have to find what works for you. Me telling you that layering quilts works for me doesn't really help you much at all.

 

[AXEL]

I have used a LOT of bags and modded systems over 54 years of both recreational and working bush experience in BC and Alberta. I found that sleeping in my clothing tended to make me awaken early sweating and uncomfortable. I found that different layering of bags, etc. was often warm, but, always heavier than a single, good bag intended for the temps you will encounter.

I have owned and used, original Marmot Mtn. Works, Feathered Friends, original Integral Designs, Valandre Shocking Blue, two WM bags, and other highend down bags as well as top end synthetics. I strongly recommend a 0*F, WM bag, mine is the Sequoia, or a Valandre such as the "Shocking Blue" for your situation and the $$$$$ these cost is WELL SPENT in terms of their performance.

I cannot stress too strongly how much a GOOD bag and pad rig supports your hunting and only your pack, boots and good optics are as important. You DO NOT "need" trendy camo that costs a freakin' bundle and is apparently obsolescent by next season, but, a top end bag will last most a lifetime and be a real "friend" in ugly weather.

 

[ellsworb]

I have worn my layers, it didnt make a huge difference for me.

Im tall and skinny and have low body fat, I sleep pretty cold compared to a big guy that has a few extra pounds on him.

Can you describe your clothing layers. That will help us hone in on a few systems to try.

If you can sleep in it. . you may be relegated to the mummy bag. I used a 20 degree REI bag with a liner for years into the single digits. . .but I was always wearing my puffy and warm hat.

 

[fort fireman]

Last year I did a backpack deer hunt. I used a 20 degree synthetic bag. There were nights it got down into the high teens. With the bag and a few layers I was "ok" but not super warm by any means. I slept but it wasn't great sleep. Over the following spring I made myself a 10x6 quilt out of 2 cheap down quilts from bed bath and beyond. I used it this spring for turkey and it worked great down to about 50 degrees. My plan for this deer season is use my big Agnes double z insulated pad, my 20 degree bag and then if needed all that wrapped in my quilt like a burrito. I don't know if it'll boost the warmth a bunch but for the weight penalty I think it's worth a try. Plus I like the sound of the versatility of it.

 

[R_burg]

Just asking a simple question to better understand the situation. "I" can layer a quilt or wear extra clothes in my 30* quilt below freezing and be fine. If you've tried that then it seems that it doesn't work for you. Therefore I can only assume that layering quilts won't work either. I have a buddy that is always cold (and we always give him a hard time about it) but you have to find what works for you. Me telling you that layering quilts works for me doesn't really help you much at all.

I think explaining what works for you does help.

I have used a LOT of bags and modded systems over 54 years of both recreational and working bush experience in BC and Alberta. I found that sleeping in my clothing tended to make me awaken early sweating and uncomfortable. I found that different layering of bags, etc. was often warm, but, always heavier than a single, good bag intended for the temps you will encounter.

I have owned and used, original Marmot Mtn. Works, Feathered Friends, original Integral Designs, Valandre Shocking Blue, two WM bags, and other highend down bags as well as top end synthetics. I strongly recommend a 0*F, WM bag, mine is the Sequoia, or a Valandre such as the "Shocking Blue" for your situation and the $$$$$ these cost is WELL SPENT in terms of their performance.

I cannot stress too strongly how much a GOOD bag and pad rig supports your hunting and only your pack, boots and good optics are as important. You DO NOT "need" trendy camo that costs a freakin' bundle and is apparently obsolescent by next season, but, a top end bag will last most a lifetime and be a real "friend" in ugly weather.

Thanks!

Can you describe your clothing layers. That will help us hone in on a few systems to try.

If you can sleep in it. . you may be relegated to the mummy bag. I used a 20 degree REI bag with a liner for years into the single digits. . .but I was always wearing my puffy and warm hat.

Sure.

Synthetic base layer I bring just for sleeping (in the hopes sleeping in a base layer that isnt sweaty should help). Heavy wool socks. Kuiu Attack pants. A light mid layer synthetic shirt (whichever I have brought) and a Peleton 200 over that. I also wear a beanie. I wrap my puffy down around my feet.

I should say one time i was testing my gear on a cold night we were car camping and my buddy had a big, normal blanket and i used that and it seemed to help, which is why I am considering the quilt. That being said, like the above poster I don't love wearing all these damn clothes inside my bag. Id like to get something that is comfortable (for me) down to zero with just a base layer, socks and beanie. I've come to the conclusion, for me, a few ounces is nothing compared to a good night sleep.

 

[ljalberta]

I hate being cold when trying to sleep. I LOVE my quilt, but if I was in your situation, I'd go for the WM 0* bag or even a lower rated one to be extra toasty. I don't like to mess around at those colder temperatures. Hard to beat a quilt for 3 season use, but for winter camping I'll be sticking with a bag.

Edit: agree with poster below, 0* or even warmer to be safe if you're a cold sleeper.

 

[ellsworb]

I think explaining what works for you does help.

Thanks! Sure.

Synthetic base layer I bring just for sleeping (in the hopes sleeping in a base layer that isnt sweaty should help). Heavy wool socks. Kuiu Attack pants. A light mid layer synthetic shirt (whichever I have brought) and a Peleton 200 over that. I also wear a beanie. I wrap my puffy down around my feet.

I should say one time i was testing my gear on a cold night we were car camping and my buddy had a big, normal blanket and i used that and it seemed to help, which is why I am considering the quilt. That being said, like the above poster I don't love wearing all these damn clothes inside my bag. Id like to get something that is comfortable (for me) down to zero with just a base layer, socks and beanie. I've come to the conclusion, for me, a few ounces is nothing compared to a good night sleep.

If you sleep well in the mummy bag. . . just get a warm mummy bag. Sometimes the simplification and knowledge of success is worth way more than a few ounces.

Go for that zero or even -10 mummy bag and sleep warm my friend.

If you're still interested in the layering idea. . here are a few of the adjustments I'd make:
-Order a down Hoodlum in the heavy fill. It's incredibly warmer than a normal beanie.
-Wear your puffy as a jacket. In fact . . .i'd remove your Peleton and/or mid weight layer and wrap THAT around your feet. The puffy will be much more efficient at keep your whole body warm if worn correctly.
-Ensure the socks you're wearing to bed are dry.
-You're going to already be warmer on your new Thermarest.
-Consider a reflective material for your ground cloth.
-Make sure you eat before bed. Need calories to burn for your furnace to operate. Warm food helps me
-Consider taking a mild sedative before bed (benadryl; melatonin; etc).

Probably more than you wanted. Just some of the things that have helped me through the years.

Good luck. Finding your happy place on chilly nights to get some rest is certainly a process.

 

[1signguy]

I have two zero degree down quilts (one with an extra 4 OZ of down so probably a -10 degree...) and there is no comparing those to a high end sleeping bag. I have had great luck with Marmot and Feathered Friends... Don't know if they are still on sale but I just bought a zero degree Kuiu bag for a great price... Haven't tried it yet but I think its a pretty good bag and very comfortable- will know more later this Fall but maybe someone else has some experience with them...

So my suggestion is a good bag and always go to bed with food in your stomach! The other thing you might consider is a stove of some sort. I just purchased my first one after staying in a buddies hot tent last Winter. Going to bed on a full stomach and in an already warm tent/sleeping bag makes a giant difference even if it is ambient temperature in the tent an hour later... Your body is generating heat form the digestion and the bag was already warm when you got in. If you are still struggling to stay warm here is another trick. Warm up some water or make coffee and fill a Nalgene or other bottle/thermos. Place that in your bag between your legs. Some people get nervous about doing this in a down bag but I have never had one leak. It makes a giant difference... and you don't have to melt snow in the morning or better yet you have coffee in bed come the AM.

Good luck- getting your sleep system dialed in not only helps you hunt better but increases hunt enjoyment 20 fold!

 

[Rucker61]

I've been very comfortable down in the low teens with my 20 degree Enlightened Equipment quilt and a Woobie. The Woobie stays in the pack for the day anyway so bringing two quilts isn't a weight issue for me. I cannot get comfortable in a mummy bag, so this is the best solution for me.

 

[fishslap]

I have an older 15deg down bag from REI that gets cold before that. My new bag purchase this year was a 0deg FF bag for late Nov/Dec hunts. I have a September CO muzzy hunt and didn't want to take the 0 but I think I might get cold in the 15 at over 10k elevation. So...I saw an enlightened equipment 50deg long under hammock quilt come on sale because it was returned. I bought it to add some versatility and insurance for the small added weight. I haven't used it yet but I will in about 4 weeks. I'm still worried I might get cold. My other option was a woobie or small thin fleece blanket.

 

[mtwarden]

for one or two nights, a dedicated "warm bag" simplifies things; however on longer trips in the cold I always use a two piece system- a moderate rated down bag with a synthetic (Apex) quilt over the top. Down degrades (loses it's loft) over time with just your body moisture, the synthetic quilt over the top allows this moisture to travel through the down layer, keeping your down dry and high lofting. The syn over quilt handles the moisture much better.

A modular system also gives you some selection flexibility in other environs