Last Minute Mountain Goat Rifle

[skierhs]

I have hunted with cans for years, but agree they have become ESSENTIAL GEAR for many when old fashioned ear plugs work even better than a can but that idea is laughed at by some. It's definitely not cool.

For about 1 gram with foam ear plugs you get 33db of reduction.
A decent magnum level can get you 30db of reduction for 340 grams of weight.

I hunt with cans for whitetail but never on animals where I will have the 10 seconds it takes to put earplugs in.
Where I'm at, a lot of my whitetail hunting is still hunting where I have to be as still as possible or take a shot right away, plugs are usually not an option.

For anything out West where I need to range the game, I have time to put plugs in.

It's not a perfect system, but it does save me 6" and a pound off my rifle plus plugs are more protective than a hunting can.

After hunting with cans for years, I've found the cost-benefit ratio of suppressors goes way down as the power of the rifle goes up. For small game hunting with 22 subs, a 6oz 5" can will get me movie quiet. For big game hunting with a magnum rifle a 18 oz 6" can will reduce my rifle's report from extremely loud to very loud. I usually carry the 22 can less than 5 miles and shoot it 5-10 times on a hunt while a big game rifle may be carried 60-80 miles and fired once or twice. Every way you look at it the more backcountry you get and the bigger the cartridge gets the suppressor makes less sense.

The best balance I have found is rounds designed for short barrels (such as the 350 Legend which looses about 200 FPS going from 20" to 11") then put a can on it. You have a shorter, lighter, quieter gun with a can and minimal velocity loss for that extreme barrel reduction.

Interesting. I find the exact opposite. As the chambering goes up, I find more utility out of a suppressor. When shooting a .22lr, the volume is already low, there is no recoil (or it’s extremely short), and zero muzzle rise. Whereas with a 300NM the volume is loud, recoil is stout, and there is plenty of muzzle rise. Putting a suppressor on the .22lr does only minimal effect. Where as putting a 5” 6oz drops the volume a material amount (over 20db on the top end), lengthens the recoil impulse (making it easier to manage), and reduces the muzzle rise.

 

[skierhs]

This isn't always true if you're using a brake.

Here is some interesting data on that. No brake, a 26” 300wm creates ~162db at the shooters ears. With brake, that would be louder. Some cans are equal to or greater to ear plugs, and vice versa. https://thunderbeastarms.com/sound/summit2025/

 

[nm.otter]

I'm in the same camp: Lighten the rifle as much as practical, then add back some weight with a can. Balances better, and really tames muzzle rise.

7 pound, 4 ounce 20" 6.5mm Creedmoor was rough to shoot.
7 pounds, 15 ounces with an OG 30 becomes pleasant -- yet still challenging to spot shots most of the time.

 

[ckt3]

I had Oregon mountain rifles build me a 16.5” 6 creed. I used a stainless tikka action and put it in a short action Hnt26 folding chassis. I have absolutely loved it. I was able to kill my mountain goat right at 400 yards. Performed excellent and was very easy to pack around.

View attachment 1026327

That looks super handy. What muzzle velocity and bullets out of the 16.5” barrel? Might do something similar down the road.

 

[z987k]

Wow.

He can't hear you.

 

[z987k]

Here is some interesting data on that. No brake, a 26” 300wm creates ~162db at the shooters ears. With brake, that would be louder. Some cans are equal to or greater to ear plugs, and vice versa. https://thunderbeastarms.com/sound/summit2025/

Ya, typically with a good directional break you get the full ~180db at the shooters ear. There's not any hearing protection than can make that hearing safe.
Not to even get into the concussive forces.

 

[43.6N]

Just thinking about shooting unsuppressed causes my tinnitus to flair up and gives me a migraine.

Suppressed short hunting rifles are the future.
Taking cues from the competition world, I think GT/BR sized cases will be the “Creedmoor” of the next 20 years.

OP, hope you bag a monster.

 

[z987k]

Unexpectedly drew a AK mountain goat tag, and now I’m on the clock for building a new rifle. I’m leaning towards a 7prc, 18-22” barrel, tbac 5 suppressor, with a NF 2.5-20 NX8, and the new Manner’s folding stock. I figure this should give me a solid kill range of 600 yards.

Any alterations do you recommend; and who would you go though for this build? I probably only need a barreled action. Looking to keep this whole thing under 8lbs.

Just find a better suppressor. AB, airlock, one of the OGs.
I'd also go down from 7prc. You're not going to be shooting goats anywhere in this state at 800+ yards when the 7prc starts to matter. I've walked past goats at 200 yards because of the cliff they were on.
I'd plan for more like a 500y max, and even that I wouldn't find likely, though possible, and work back from there. Unless you know the area and really think you'll be taking a 7-800 yard poke at a goat. I don't know any animal that won't let you get closer then 700yards, so I just don't see the need for a 7prc for anything in Alaska.
In 7mm, that puts you more in the 280ai or even 7saw/7-08ai territory depending if you are a copper person, or lead is fine.
My goat rifle is 22cm(because my goat rifle is a hair under 4lbs). I've also shot them with my 6.5cm and -06, they all kill them just fine.
Unless this is purely a I want to see how far I can shoot a goat exercise.

 

[43.6N]

Unexpectedly drew a AK mountain goat tag, and now I’m on the clock for building a new rifle. I’m leaning towards a 7prc, 18-22” barrel, tbac 5 suppressor, with a NF 2.5-20 NX8, and the new Manner’s folding stock. I figure this should give me a solid kill range of 600 yards.

Any alterations do you recommend; and who would you go though for this build? I probably only need a barreled action. Looking to keep this whole thing under 8lbs.

OP let’s explore this a little further.
You will definitely get 600yds out of the 7prc (more like 900-1200 if you’re hunting the altitude I think you’ll be at).

What led you to that cartridge in particular? Expecting high winds? Wanting to shoot a certain bullet?

I really like the idea of the manners folding stock. I would personally look for any way to justify a 16” barrel. From suppressor tip to the folding mech, I bet you could get your OAL right at 24-26 inches. A very tidy package for brush busting. It will probably be shorter then your tripod when folded.

 

[teamsprock]

That looks super handy. What muzzle velocity and bullets out of the 16.5” barrel? Might do something similar down the road.

2770 fps shooting factory Hornady 108 eldm’s. Based off velocity it should be effective to 750 yards if I remember correctly. It has already killed several animals and I have been extremely impressed. Mtn goat was 400 yards, elk 575, and two bison at 400 yards.

 

[skierhs]

OP let’s explore this a little further.
You will definitely get 600yds out of the 7prc (more like 900-1200 if you’re hunting the altitude I think you’ll be at).

What led you to that cartridge in particular? Expecting high winds? Wanting to shoot a certain bullet?

I really like the idea of the manners folding stock. I would personally look for any way to justify a 16” barrel. From suppressor tip to the folding mech, I bet you could get your OAL right at 24-26 inches. A very tidy package for brush busting. It will probably be shorter then your tripod when folded.

My "all around" rifle for the last decade has been a 338LM that is tricked out, and I have primarly used a .270win for my sheep/goat. But the .270win is a old and heavy rifle that I would like to retire. It's a great gun, but I want something more similar to my 338LM is tricked out but for mountain hunting.

I want something that cuts through the wind well, and has solid knock down power. I know going with a short barrel (18") will make me lose some speed so I want to partially compensate for that with a heavier bullet. I also expect that this will be my "grab and go" rifle for when I get a last minute offer to chase various critters based upon how light/small it will be. That could be a bear/goat hunt off of a boat, it could be Colorado mule deer/elk, or moose/caribou. One of those, "I might as well grab a rifle and bring it along" type situations. With such a wide range of situations, I want something that will work across the board and without hesitation. But I also dont want something that will be over kill on sheep/goat. The 7PRC largely fits that bill. It's more gun than necesary for sitations. But its enough gun for just about the rest of them. As a side, I know Cabelas and Sportsman's has plenty of stock up here in it, so I can buy a few hundred rounds at a time.

As for the manners folding stock, I am super excited about that option. I have a first or second gen Element stock for my 338LM with a folder and love the folding aspect of it. But the stock has a minor amount of rotational play when not under load. It has no discernable effect on accuracy but annoys me nonetheless. With the manners and how its apart of the mini chasis, I am hoping that issue will not repeat itself. I decided on a 18" barrel, so I can put a 5" can and still be managable. I plan to keep the can off in the low country and put it on once I get into the main hunting area. Shorter than the tripod, or close enough that it doesnt matter. Even with the short barrel, I expect mid to low 2700 for a 175grain Elite Hunter and 2650 for the 195 Elite Hunter. I will likley stay around the 175 grain but I am not sure. For Hornady, I may be close to 2800 for the 175 ELD-X. These speed estimates are based upon reducing the advertised speed by 25-50fps per inch taken off the respective test barrels.

 

[skierhs]

2770 fps shooting factory Hornady 108 eldm’s. Based off velocity it should be effective to 750 yards if I remember correctly. It has already killed several animals and I have been extremely impressed. Mtn goat was 400 yards, elk 575, and two bison at 400 yards.

Sounds like a tack driver! Nice kills.

 

[skierhs]

Just find a better suppressor. AB, airlock, one of the OGs.
I'd also go down from 7prc. You're not going to be shooting goats anywhere in this state at 800+ yards when the 7prc starts to matter. I've walked past goats at 200 yards because of the cliff they were on.
I'd plan for more like a 500y max, and even that I wouldn't find likely, though possible, and work back from there. Unless you know the area and really think you'll be taking a 7-800 yard poke at a goat. I don't know any animal that won't let you get closer then 700yards, so I just don't see the need for a 7prc for anything in Alaska.
In 7mm, that puts you more in the 280ai or even 7saw/7-08ai territory depending if you are a copper person, or lead is fine.
My goat rifle is 22cm(because my goat rifle is a hair under 4lbs). I've also shot them with my 6.5cm and -06, they all kill them just fine.
Unless this is purely a I want to see how far I can shoot a goat exercise.

You are 100% correct that the 7PRC is overkill, but mentally I struggle dropping below a .30cal. I have ran big bores so long that it's hard to break the habbit.

As for the can, I likley will go with the Tbac Magnus-K. They have incredible support and are willing to rate thier cans for magnums shorter than 22". I'm planning on starting to shoot shorter and shorter barrels. I figure the reduction in barrel weight and lengtrh compensates for the supressor weight and length. AB and Airlock both require magnums to be at least 22", defeating my goal of short barrels.

As for actual range for my unit, I expect 250-350 yards will be the outer reach. I dont intend to strech the legs on the rifle at all. Although just like being overbored, mentally having the range is a nice touch.

 

[43.6N]

My "all around" rifle for the last decade has been a 338LM that is tricked out, and I have primarly used a .270win for my sheep/goat. But the .270win is a old and heavy rifle that I would like to retire. It's a great gun, but I want something more similar to my 338LM is tricked out but for mountain hunting.

I want something that cuts through the wind well, and has solid knock down power. I know going with a short barrel (18") will make me lose some speed so I want to partially compensate for that with a heavier bullet. I also expect that this will be my "grab and go" rifle for when I get a last minute offer to chase various critters based upon how light/small it will be. That could be a bear/goat hunt off of a boat, it could be Colorado mule deer/elk, or moose/caribou. One of those, "I might as well grab a rifle and bring it along" type situations. With such a wide range of situations, I want something that will work across the board and without hesitation. But I also dont want something that will be over kill on sheep/goat. The 7PRC largely fits that bill. It's more gun than necesary for sitations. But its enough gun for just about the rest of them. As a side, I know Cabelas and Sportsman's has plenty of stock up here in it, so I can buy a few hundred rounds at a time.

As for the manners folding stock, I am super excited about that option. I have a first or second gen Element stock for my 338LM with a folder and love the folding aspect of it. But the stock has a minor amount of rotational play when not under load. It has no discernable effect on accuracy but annoys me nonetheless. With the manners and how its apart of the mini chasis, I am hoping that issue will not repeat itself. I decided on a 18" barrel, so I can put a 5" can and still be managable. I plan to keep the can off in the low country and put it on once I get into the main hunting area. Shorter than the tripod, or close enough that it doesnt matter. Even with the short barrel, I expect mid to low 2700 for a 175grain Elite Hunter and 2650 for the 195 Elite Hunter. I will likley stay around the 175 grain but I am not sure. For Hornady, I may be close to 2800 for the 175 ELD-X. These speed estimates are based upon reducing the advertised speed by 25-50fps per inch taken off the respective test barrels.

Sounds very well thought out.
I like the thoughtfulness in availability and your use case.
I’m a big fan of 7mm bullets. Sounds like you are going to be using factory ammo primarily?

If handholding, two other options with upsides to consider.
- 284 win will get very very close to that performance out of 18” barrel. It will also burn much less powder while doing so.
- With the new 135gr class of 25cal bullets, a 257 Roberts AI would also duplicate that performance in an 18” with significant recoil savings. (Shameless plug for some guys trying to get a group buy of prefit barrels ordered).

But if only using factory, the point is mute. And all things considered, coming from the big 338, I think you will be very happy with the 7prc performance.

 

[43.6N]

Tbac Magnus-K.

Excellent choice. Especially knowing your planned 7prc build. It is really compact, and such a better can compared to the ultra 5.
I just spent 2 weeks behind one, and was very impressed. It is compact enough that I would just leave it on your “grab and go” rifle full time.

This whole business of selectively taking a can off and then putting it back on usually just leads to problems and headaches. If you already have a lot of suppressor experience, then feel free to disregard. But in my mind I am going to be carrying the can anyway, having it screwed on to the rifle is just as heavy on my body as if it were in my backpack. Only one protects my muzzle, my accuracy, and my ears.

 

[skierhs]

Sounds very well thought out.
I like the thoughtfulness in availability and your use case.
I’m a big fan of 7mm bullets. Sounds like you are going to be using factory ammo primarily?

If handholding, two other options with upsides to consider.
- 284 win will get very very close to that performance out of 18” barrel. It will also burn much less powder while doing so.
- With the new 135gr class of 25cal bullets, a 257 Roberts AI would also duplicate that performance in an 18” with significant recoil savings. (Shameless plug for some guys trying to get a group buy of prefit barrels ordered).

But if only using factory, the point is mute. And all things considered, coming from the big 338, I think you will be very happy with the 7prc performance.

I just don’t have time to reload. If I had the time and space, the maybe.

 

[skierhs]

Excellent choice. Especially knowing your planned 7prc build. It is really compact, and such a better can compared to the ultra 5.
I just spent 2 weeks behind one, and was very impressed. It is compact enough that I would just leave it on your “grab and go” rifle full time.

This whole business of selectively taking a can off and then putting it back on usually just leads to problems and headaches. If you already have a lot of suppressor experience, then feel free to disregard. But in my mind I am going to be carrying the can anyway, having it screwed on to the rifle is just as heavy on my body as if it were in my backpack. Only one protects my muzzle, my accuracy, and my ears.

I’m glad to hear you like the can. My first can was a 338 Ultra and it fully converted me.

I get what you’re saying but I’ve also taken a few spills while handling heavy pack outs and realized that so long as I have dedicated transition time then it’s worth taking it off. That Ultra should probably be sent back into Tbac for a refresh. But I’m also used to running 24 plus long barrels so with the short barrel I may be of a different mind.

 

[43.6N]

I’m glad to hear you like the can. My first can was a 338 Ultra and it fully converted me.

I get what you’re saying but I’ve also taken a few spills while handling heavy pack outs and realized that so long as I have dedicated transition time then it’s worth taking it off. That Ultra should probably be sent back into Tbac for a refresh. But I’m also used to running 24 plus long barrels so with the short barrel I may be of a different mind.

You’re good man. You’ve obviously got the experience and have figured out a system that works.

With the 18” barrel and can, it should be right at 24” overall.

Sounds like all you need to do Is build it, and then start shooting.

 

[MT_Wyatt]

Re: foam plugs and brakes.

Something that does not get mentioned enough with cans is the reduction in shock wave from rifles. Although recoil reduction, change of impulse, and obviously cutting sound helps, killing that big “whumpfff” through your head and body really helps with shooting.