Large caliber vs. small caliber debate

[HuntHarder]

LOL I bet that guy has seen some stuff!

 

[TaperPin]

Looks like most agree on just about everything except the ability to shoot accurately. I'm good with that. Appreciate all the productive comments.

Luckily, shooting accurately is a piece of cake to measure. Swap between two calibers and in the first hour the results will be obvious to even a new shooter.

Same for how much weight makes a difference - simply swap between two rifles of different weight. The target doesn’t lie.

 

[TaperPin]

For any of the kids trying to figure all this out, here’s some interesting homework - even if you aren’t interested in small guns, read through the small bullet performance posts. Imagine you’re there as the shots are described. One of the main reasons against large guns and deep penetrating bullets is the claim that proper shot selection and accurate shots negate bad angles or off center shots. It doesn’t take long to find post after post of first shots that weren’t quite right, then either there’s a rodeo with shots in the gut, or hams, or backstrap, or maybe they get lucky and it stands broadside. There’s a lot to be learned in those posts. Some of these shot up animals make it a long way - we don’t get to see the ones never recovered.

 

[roadrunner]

I sure hope every single person who says they can shoot their magnums just as well shows up for just a single match.

Then we can end this debate for good.

A .270 WSM with a suppressor OR break shooting 140 gr bullet at 3000 fps muzzle velocity will allow you to see impact through the scope.

I would wager a set up like that will allow a shooter to shoot just as well as they do with a smaller caliber...

 

[Formidilosus]

For any of the kids trying to figure all this out, here’s some interesting homework - even if you aren’t interested in small guns, read through the small bullet performance posts. Imagine you’re there as the shots are described. One of the main reasons against large guns and deep penetrating bullets is the claim that proper shot selection and accurate shots negate bad angles or off center shots. It doesn’t take long to find post after post of first shots that weren’t quite right, then either there’s a rodeo with shots in the gut, or hams, or backstrap, or maybe they get lucky and it stands broadside. There’s a lot to be learned in those posts. Some of these shot up animals make it a long way - we don’t get to see the ones never recovered.

Please quote all those examples- or is this more made up nonsense from you?

 

[TaperPin]

Please quote all those examples- or is this more made up nonsense from you?

You read through the same posts I do, just from a different perspective - I’m not reading for information on the new bullet performance, I’m happy with the performance of old ancient technology Accubonds, but rather the interesting part are the stories of the rodeos starting from from first trigger pull.

I did say this was homework - it requires a little effort

 

[Formidilosus]

You read through the same posts I do, just from a different perspective - I’m not reading for information on the new bullet performance, I’m happy with the performance of old ancient technology Accubonds, but rather the interesting part are the stories of the rodeos starting from from first trigger pull.

I did say this was homework - it requires a little effort

So nonsense. There are only a tiny handful of bad shots in the 223 thread, and no “rodeos” written about.

 

[PaulDogs]

For any of the kids trying to figure all this out, here’s some interesting homework - even if you aren’t interested in small guns, read through the small bullet performance posts. Imagine you’re there as the shots are described. One of the main reasons against large guns and deep penetrating bullets is the claim that proper shot selection and accurate shots negate bad angles or off center shots. It doesn’t take long to find post after post of first shots that weren’t quite right, then either there’s a rodeo with shots in the gut, or hams, or backstrap, or maybe they get lucky and it stands broadside. There’s a lot to be learned in those posts. Some of these shot up animals make it a long way - we don’t get to see the ones never recovered.

I’ve read the threads you are referencing. Posts like the ones you are describing do not exist.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I sure hope every single person who says they can shoot their magnums just as well shows up for just a single match.

Then we can end this debate for good.

They won’t haha.

I’ve definitely posted my “experiences” and “opinions” on this “debate” many times here on Rokslide in lots threads over the years.

I’ve been a huge proponent of lower recoiling cartridges going back to way before Rokslide was a web site. I still have folks message me or come up to me in my hometown when bumped into and thank me for steering them to 6.5 and 6mm chamberings for hunting and shooting.

I appreciate everyone’s experiences and ideas but these threads always end up the same way. The only way to see this is live shooting in person snd looking at the results together and going “hmmm”. But the vast majority of folks would rather talk about it on the internet instead of going out and trying it.

For me personally I’ve shared enough replies and experiences of real shooters to the tune of hundreds of folks. The results are what they are and I’ve been vocal on those results on this forum.

I’ll be stepping away from these types of discussions moving forward as it honestly mostly seems like it’s falling on deaf ears with folks already having an idea in their head and can’t be tasked with even trying something else. However, if somebody asks me directly for my opinion and experience on a subject, I’m happy to answer or provide photos and videos of shooting.

The going back and forth and talking in circles with folks unwilling to video themselves shooting live or accept an open invitation from me in 4 options of states to meet up and shoot, its just a bit pointless to me at this point to “debate it”.

Appreciate everyone’s experiences and replies to me personally. Happy shooting and Merry Christmas to all you heathens!!!

I will be posting shooting videos, so if anyone is interested in a winter and spring full of hunting terrain shot scenarios, shooting “groups”, checking rifle zeros after nasty drives and pack outs, etc. I’ll be starting an “adventures” thread to check out sometime soon.

Cheers!

 

[roadrunner]

You read through the same posts I do, just from a different perspective - I’m not reading for information on the new bullet performance, I’m happy with the performance of old ancient technology Accubonds, but rather the interesting part are the stories of the rodeos starting from from first trigger pull.

I did say this was homework - it requires a little effort

I know what you're referring to even if some "esperts" don't.

As you said, homework. It's lazy to ask to be provided the answers...

 

[MT-nuffgun]

Yep, hunting rifles don’t have to be shot much. About 1990, after shooting a 243 all summer, I alternated between the 7 mag and 243 for a couple hundred rounds and that proved to me there was no benefit to using the 7 mag as a trainer.

So with your theology, I should shoot a .243 as a trainer. But when i am “trophy” hunting i should use a 7 mag that I haven’t shot much?

 

[LONE HUNTER]

That is impossible. The rifle is moving just as soon as the bullet starts moving.

Damn Newton and his "laws".

 

[LONE HUNTER]

Hold up I have a question. If recoil is the monster we are all trying to fight why does it seem that most of us use suppressors instead of 4 port brakes?
would a braked 22 creed not be the holy grail?
Who hunts with one instead of suppressed?

It aint just recoil. Muzzle blast has a negative effect on accuracy. Muzzle brakes are robbing peter to pay paul out in the field. just my 0.02

 

[The Guide]

They won’t haha.

I’ve definitely posted my “experiences” and “opinions” on this “debate” many times here on Rokslide in lots threads over the years.

I’ve been a huge proponent of lower recoiling cartridges going back to way before Rokslide was a web site. I still have folks message me or come up to me in my hometown when bumped into and thank me for steering them to 6.5 and 6mm chamberings for hunting and shooting.

I appreciate everyone’s experiences and ideas but these threads always end up the same way. The only way to see this is live shooting in person snd looking at the results together and going “hmmm”. But the vast majority of folks would rather talk about it on the internet instead of going out and trying it.

For me personally I’ve shared enough replies and experiences of real shooters to the tune of hundreds of folks. The results are what they are and I’ve been vocal on those results on this forum.

I’ll be stepping away from these types of discussions moving forward as it honestly mostly seems like it’s falling on deaf ears with folks already having an idea in their head and can’t be tasked with even trying something else. However, if somebody asks me directly for my opinion and experience on a subject, I’m happy to answer or provide photos and videos of shooting.

The going back and forth and talking in circles with folks unwilling to video themselves shooting live or accept an open invitation from me in 4 options of states to meet up and shoot, its just a bit pointless to me at this point to “debate it”.

Appreciate everyone’s experiences and replies to me personally. Happy shooting and Merry Christmas to all you heathens!!!

I will be posting shooting videos, so if anyone is interested in a winter and spring full of hunting terrain shot scenarios, shooting “groups”, checking rifle zeros after nasty drives and pack outs, etc. I’ll be starting an “adventures” thread to check out sometime soon.

Cheers!

I didn't see an invite! Not from an arguments sake but just to meet people and shoot with them. I haven't been shooting in 2 weeks because of weather. Snow, freezing rain, and wind suck.

Jay

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I didn't see an invite! Not from an arguments sake but just to meet people and shoot with them. I haven't been shooting in 2 weeks because of weather. Snow, freezing rain, and wind suck.

Jay

Come down to AZ! Sunny and 70 degrees most days this time of year. Lots of fun shooting spots! PM me.

 

[hereinaz]

Hold up I have a question. If recoil is the monster we are all trying to fight why does it seem that most of us use suppressors instead of 4 port brakes?
would a braked 22 creed not be the holy grail?
Who hunts with one instead of suppressed?

Brakes only affect spotting shots, because the bullet is gone by the time it works.

Of course a brake affects other things, but the straight “easier to shoot less recoil” a brake doesn’t affect how much the barrel moves while the bullet is in the bore.

 

[TaperPin]

So with your theology, I should shoot a .243 as a trainer. But when i am “trophy” hunting i should use a 7 mag that I haven’t shot much?

You don’t have to, but I’ve had a reliable squared away 7 mag for decades. It gets shot more than once a year, but I would have no problem if it sat for 11 months, check zero and go hunting. If someone doesn’t have a squared away rifle this wouldn’t work.

 

[hereinaz]

Seems odd that recoil energy is taken so seriously yet Kinetic energy is regularly dismissed as useless. Both are figured with the same formulae.

The butt does the same thing every time, bounce off the shoulder. Doesn’t matter a whole lot what a butt is made out of.

Bullets do different things in the way they transfer energy. A match bullet explodes and a mono mushrooms and penetrates. That’s why energy can’t be used for bullets.

 

[TaperPin]

So nonsense. There are only a tiny handful of bad shots in the 223 thread, and no “rodeos” written about.

 

[TaperPin]

I’ve read the threads you are referencing. Posts like the ones you are describing do not exist.

There are fun train wrecks every year - I’m not calling them out as abnormally bad, but it is real life. I’m glad the guys posted them as it’s good for young guys to hear all the stories good and not so good. Crazy shooting isn’t limited to small calibers by any means, every forum has plenty.