Large caliber vs. small caliber debate

[STAxel]

Man this discussion thread escalated quicky…yikes! And the final answer is…”It depends”

 

[pacoalcracker]

Costco is having a big sale on skirts. I suggest all you man-bun and light-in-the-loafers kinda shooters head on over there.....the money you save might buy another box of teeny weeny cartridges. You can always pass that colorful skirt off as a manly kilt...just wear some panties.

 

[TaperPin]

I can judge what average nutty 20 year olds think, just by asking a nephew who enjoys long range shooting. I’ll txt him and ask what kind of shooter he wants to be by the time he hits 30. . .

. . . He wanted to know what I was getting at, so I explained this conversation (and many others) often involves guys using statistics of large numbers of shooters, like its gospel for all. “What level are you shooting for from 1 to 10, with average being a 5?” Guess what, he has no interest in being anything near average. Lol

I said, “That’s good or I’d have to stop shooting with you.” - over the years I’ve become quickly bored spending time with average shooters happy to be mediocre, or average hunters happy to not be serious about it.

 

[pacoalcracker]

TaperPin, good point. I doubt most people here are average shooters or less and are most likely well above average. I also doubt most would be bothered by recoil enough to have an adverse effect on accuracy at any reasonable range game would be taken at. Certainly, 1000 yard hunters require a much higher level of skill many here do not currently have, myself included. My point is......most here do not need to resort to small caliber firearms to be successful in hunting regardless the perceived advantage...which is controversial. It's all pretty much just bullshit....but it makes for great discussion and keyboard hits.

 

[ldmay375]

TaperPin, good point. I doubt most people here are average shooters or less and are most likely well above average. I also doubt most would be bothered by recoil enough to have an adverse effect on accuracy at any reasonable range game would be taken at. Certainly, 1000 yard hunters require a much higher level of skill many here do not currently have, myself included. My point is......most here do not need to resort to small caliber firearms to be successful in hunting regardless the perceived advantage...which is controversial. It's all pretty much just bullshit....but it makes for great discussion and keyboard hits.

Yep, a volleyball sized target at 200 yards is certainly different than the same target at 600 yards. Or even a ping pong ball sized target at 200.

Edit: Also a 3 shot string of fire is different than 20 plus, as to recoil effect / fatigue. Unless one already has issues with the increase in recoil.

 

[mtnbound]

I would argue that muzzle blast can affect some shooters worse than recoil. Depends what a person is sensitive to.

I agree; the first time I shot a brake, I was caught off guard by all of the debris flying around, and I was jumpy for my next shot, which was the end of my trial run with a brake, which was many years ago and I suspect brakes have improved, but I'll stay with a suppressor.

 

[mtnbound]

People really need to get out and shoot more - there’s so many strange beliefs about different cartridges and shooting in general that it boggles the mind.

Take any shooter prairie dog hunting with a wide variety of calibers and in the course of one day they can tell you what each rifle hit rates are at distance, and what recoil level reduces hits. Even a teenager without taking notes, without a forum membership, even socially awkward without a girlfriend, can easily see what works and what doesn’t. Every person on the trip knows what guns different shooters shoot well and which they don’t. Prairie dog trips are more enjoyable to shoot primarily with smaller calibers, but in addition to those I’ve rarely gone out without taking a 270 or 7 mag as well as a bigger bore, and a variety of pistols. The amount of keyboard guessing would be dramatically reduced. In theory, banging steel should give the same results, but for many it’s different being actually in the field shooting at actual animals.

It’s not as common in many places to have large volumes of beady eyed targets, but just go shoot rocks or cardboard boxes and have fun. I can take 4 girls shooting rocks, trading rifles around, and in one day it’s obvious to who shoots what rifle well. Maybe shooters have become too isolated and don’t get out with friends as much. Some of the most memorable educational experiences have been spent watching others shoot - how they get in position, how they talk through their shot process. There are a lot of experienced long range hunters who are deadly accurate with their traditional cartridge and favorite 1/2 MOA rifle - showing up to shoot with a 1 MOA gun of any cartridge and the odds of beating them at long range are essential zero.

I freaking love shooting prairie dogs.

 

[Flynhunt]

I’ve decided to identify as macho man fudd AND man bun pansie! Does this make me pan-caliber, bi-caliber, or caliber fluid? Help me find out who I am!

 

[Lawnboi]

The good news, while not a direct comparison, is that you can shoot an nrl hunter every month and compete against your peers.

It’s as easy as showing up with your light weight high recoil rifle and beating people.

 

[FredH]

I agree; the first time I shot a brake, I was caught off guard by all of the debris flying around, and I was jumpy for my next shot, which was the end of my trial run with a brake, which was many years ago and I suspect brakes have improved, but I'll stay with a suppressor.

I have few brakes. I do like linear compensators. Most of my rifles have nothing but a crown.

 

[Justin Crossley]

The dumbest aspect is thinking those who shoot heavier recoiling rifles don't also shoot lighter recoiling rifles. I don't take my 270 coyote hunting though I have killed coyotes with it while hunting other species. My coyote rifles comprise of a 243, a 6Grendle, a 223, and a 22-250. I generally take a 270, a 30-06 or a 7MM RM on out of state big game hunts. On my property I will hunt with anything that I fancy at the moment. This could include a 223, 22 ARC or 6 Grendel. I also have a 7-08 and 7x57 that I am fond of hunting with.

I can't figure out what you're trying to say here and I don't see how it addresses my post that you quoted.

 

[Justin Crossley]

The good news, while not a direct comparison, is that you can shoot an nrl hunter every month and compete against your peers.

It’s as easy as showing up with your light weight high recoil rifle and beating people.

I sure hope every single person who says they can shoot their magnums just as well shows up for just a single match.

Then we can end this debate for good.

 

[KenLee]

Small, moving targets. Yet still enough to get visual and audible confirmation of hits. Learning fundamentals of shooting and keeping target in the scope. Learning to judge animal distance travelled through the scope. Learning wind shooting and calling. Learning to move quickly from one target to the next without leaving the scope. Learning how to rack the bolt quickly while still on the scope….

There is no greater shooting training tool than going varmint hunting. Bring a few guns and have a day!!!

I wanna see a contest freehand shooting running deer while sitting in a bag chair.
Most folks heads would explode just thinking about it.

 

[FredH]

I can't figure out what you're trying to say here and I don't see how it addresses my post that you quoted.

Read it carefully.

 

[TaperPin]

The good news, while not a direct comparison, is that you can shoot an nrl hunter every month and compete against your peers.

It’s as easy as showing up with your light weight high recoil rifle and beating people.

I sure hope every single person who says they can shoot their magnums just as well shows up for just a single match.

Then we can end this debate for good.

That makes as much sense as showing up for a prairie dog shoot with only a big gun - it would be stupid. Big guns kill little targets way out there, but calling high volume shooting and the cartridges that fit that use the equivalent of big game hunting is silly.

 

[Bluefish]

Seems odd that recoil energy is taken so seriously yet Kinetic energy is regularly dismissed as useless. Both are figured with the same formulae.

Recoil is generally figured with momentum, ie mass x velocity. Ke is 1/2mass x velocity ^2. So velocity has a huge effect vs mass unlike in recoil where they are roughly equal. This is why lighter faster rounds can have similar energy and less recoil.

From an engineering perspective any bullet that leave the animal is using less than all the energy available. So people who want an exit have to use a bullet that doesn’t dump all the energy into the animal. It is theoretically possible to calculate how much energy is dumped into the animal by taking impact energy minus the exit energy. For a non exiting bullet all the energy has to go into the animal. Thus everyone who says I need an exit hole is leaving energy in the bullet, not the animal.

 

[TaperPin]

Recoil is generally figured with momentum, ie mass x velocity. Ke is 1/2mass x velocity ^2. So velocity has a huge effect vs mass unlike in recoil where they are roughly equal. This is why lighter faster rounds can have similar energy and less recoil.

From an engineering perspective any bullet that leave the animal is using less than all the energy available. So people who want an exit have to use a bullet that doesn’t dump all the energy into the animal. It is theoretically possible to calculate how much energy is dumped into the animal by taking impact energy minus the exit energy. For a non exiting bullet all the energy has to go into the animal. Thus everyone who says I need an exit hole is leaving energy in the bullet, not the animal.

Be careful - any talk of energy will get you kicked out of the chipmunk caliber club.

 

[Axlrod]

Costco is having a big sale on skirts. I suggest all you man-bun and light-in-the-loafers kinda shooters head on over there.....the money you save might buy another box of teeny weeny cartridges. You can always pass that colorful skirt off as a manly kilt...just wear some panties.

You have a link?

 

[Jbehredt]

I’ll be glad when it’s September’s again so we can get back to the “I made a bad shot, help me find him” kinda content.

 

[FredH]

Recoil is generally figured with momentum, ie mass x velocity. Ke is 1/2mass x velocity ^2. So velocity has a huge effect vs mass unlike in recoil where they are roughly equal. This is why lighter faster rounds can have similar energy and less recoil.

From an engineering perspective any bullet that leave the animal is using less than all the energy available. So people who want an exit have to use a bullet that doesn’t dump all the energy into the animal. It is theoretically possible to calculate how much energy is dumped into the animal by taking impact energy minus the exit energy. For a non exiting bullet all the energy has to go into the animal. Thus everyone who says I need an exit hole is leaving energy in the bullet, not the animal.

I will sacrifice some energy every time for a good leaky exit hole. That is in situations where brush is thick or night hunting. Hunting open areas an exit hole is not necessary. If the applied energy is adequate then that used exiting has no effect other than letting outside air in and blood out.