Lapping "High end" scope rings?

[Shortschaf]

Wheeler has convinced folks this is in alignment.

View attachment 944308

The odds of the two rings being off the same amount and in opposite directions is low

And even if it were the case it would only show "aligned" in one location between the rings--sliding the pointed bars fore and aft would discover this

 

[bnewt3]

The odds of the two rings being off the same amount and in opposite directions is low

And even if it were the case it would only show "aligned" in one location between the rings--sliding the pointed bars fore and aft would discover this

that kind of alignment could also come from the rail or receiver, not just the rings. But you are correct, sliding the bars fore and aft would show it. But TBH it had never occurred to me until now that I need to slide them fore and aft to check for this.

 

[SDHNTR]

It’s rarely a matter of the rings. Mass produced, inexpensive factory receivers with poor QC. I don’t care if you use the finest rings in the world, they ain’t gonna fix mis aligned screw holes.

 

[TaperPin]

that is a sickly looking banana

I had to dig one out of the freezer that is kept for banana bread.

 

[Shortschaf]

that kind of alignment could also come from the rail or receiver, not just the rings. But you are correct, sliding the bars fore and aft would show it. But TBH it had never occurred to me until now that I need to slide them for and aft to check for this.

Frankly I have not either
I am roughly as worried about it as I am about my lugnuts getting anti-seize (not at all)

 

[bnewt3]

just saw a YT short and the guy said "you dont need to lap your rings"

Blanket statements like that are the problem.

"You shouldnt need to lap your rings" would be fine. If everything is manufactured and installed correctly, you shouldnt. But to say you dont need to ever is just wrong and probably leads far too many people to mounting issues.

 

[Dan Carey]

When you lap the rings when they are on the base, you can then see if they need it.

 

[RockAndSage]

When you lap the rings when they are on the base, you can then see if they need it.

Not once have I ever installed rings, and discovered they were properly aligned. They always need it, to varying degrees. And like you're saying, once you lap them, you can see they needed it - it's not always obvious before that, especially without an alignment gauge/tool.

The only exceptions I've seen are some of the high-quality single-piece QD systems meant for ARs, that are essentially machined out of one solid piece of stock at the same time. Even with those, the more fasteners there are between the ring fixture and the QD base, the more they need it.

For those just jumping into this thread, all the reasons why you need to lap are listed extensively and in detail by people in earlier posts in this thread.

 

[wind gypsy]

I'm pretty confident that lapping would be unnecessary with these mounts. About the only thing I can think of that would be an improvement is to find a way to get a lug or crossbolt that could be set tight on the forward face of a pic section as well.

 

[RockAndSage]

I'm pretty confident that lapping would be unnecessary with these mounts.

View attachment 944943

You're probably right...more or less one-piece design, with minimal fasteners between rings and base. Is that one of the 419 mounts?

 

[wind gypsy]

You're probably right...more or less one-piece design, with minimal fasteners between rings and base. Is that one of the 419 mounts?

Yes. https://www.area419.com/product/area-419-tactical-one-piece-scope-mount/

 

[RockAndSage]

Yes. https://www.area419.com/product/area-419-tactical-one-piece-scope-mount/

Damn those are nice.

I really wish there were more factory options for hunting-style bolt guns with pic-rails machined right into the receiver. It would eliminate so much BS with scope mounting, including a big chunk of the things that lead to needing to lap rings.

 

[bnewt3]

I'm pretty confident that lapping would be unnecessary with these mounts. About the only thing I can think of that would be an improvement is to find a way to get a lug or crossbolt that could be set tight on the forward face of a pic section as well.

View attachment 944943

I would say there is a lower chance that this type would need to be lapped, possibly significantly lower chance.

 

[E.Shell]

To make a case for correctly lapped rings, all one has to do is scan the classifieds here and at LRH, etc. and look at all the condition comments. Comments like "minor ring marks" and "minor scratches on the tube" and other such installation damage.

I'd bet the same people who sell installation damaged goods like this also state that lapping is detrimental at worst and not needed at best.

 

[bnewt3]

In the interest of fairness, it should be said that there are basically 2 types of caps:
1) The type where there is supposed to be a significant gap between the top & bottom halves
2) there shouldn't be a gap or the gap is so small that its almost not there.

In the case of #2, lapping might ruin the rings, especially if they are significantly out of alignment.....so what are you to do if they are out of alignment? Exchange for some replacements or find different ones, check that your rail is straight & square.

For example I have some Arken rings that did not give me any indication that they should be lapped so I didn't. The gaps on the bushnell scope are so small that I can't fit a fingernail in them. Very much lapping and the caps will touch before clamping on the tube. Now it could be the scope being on the smaller side or the bores on the larger side, I'm not sure. But the rings were aligned, the scope sat in the bottoms so well, and installation marks have been so minimal that I dont feel the need to lap them.

 

[E.Shell]

In the interest of fairness, it should be said that there are basically 2 types of caps:
1) The type where there is supposed to be a significant gap between the top & bottom halves
2) there shouldn't be a gap or the gap is so small that its almost not there.

In the case of #2, lapping might ruin the rings, especially if they are significantly out of alignment.....so what are you to do if they are out of alignment? Exchange for some replacements or find different ones, check that your rail is straight & square.

For example I have some Arken rings that did not give me any indication that they should be lapped so I didn't. The gaps on the bushnell scope are so small that I can't fit a fingernail in them. Very much lapping and the caps will touch before clamping on the tube. Now it could be the scope being on the smaller side or the bores on the larger side, I'm not sure. But the rings were aligned, the scope sat in the bottoms so well, and installation marks have been so minimal that I dont feel the need to lap them.

You DO have a good point and that sort of thing can happen.

To salvage rings with too-small gaps after lapping, the bottom surface of the top ring can be ground away to a certain extent with emery paper on a hard, flat surface to restore a minimal gap and ensure secure clamping. Doesn't take much material removal to provide clearance for a grip.

 

[longrangelead]

As an example, this is every Rem 700 I've ever done. These are Talley one piece but a rail doesn't change anything unless it's bedded to the action. Most Rems are banana shaped and all it takes to find out is tighten the screws and put a straight edge on it. The rail WILL bend to match the action thus transferring the misalignment to the rings.
Reducing stress in any and all parts of the system is never a bad thing.