Ladder load how to

[Luked]

This is something I have always struggled with reloading. I have read an article recently and I understand the process the person went through,
he loaded up 8 different single rounds starting at 53.3 moving up 0.3 grains each round until reaching 55.7. He seats the billet to his "jam" length as he calls it which is the bullet right up to the lands. each of these rounds were fired at 200 yards. he recorded everything shot for shot on a Chrono.
he looked for a group of shots that were all on the same elevation on the target in this case they were 3--54.2, 54.5, 54.8. with a FPS change of 2785, 2791, 2813.
the load he choose was right in the middle with a powder charge of 54.5 gr and 2791fps.
after that he started to move to figure out the seating depth of the bullet in the case. he started at his "jam" length again which was 3.477 so he takes and starts to move the bullet .003 deeper in the case loading 3 rounds for each depth reading going to max of .015.
firing these groups giving him some options of spread on each group he pics the best out of them and settled on a Charge load of 54.5 Gr and a seating depth of 3.470.

so that all seems simple to me enough so I was glad to find the article.
Now here is my dilemma. I don't have a Chrono. is one needed for this.
I have always struggled with finding loads and so on so I want to figure it out and be able to do it correctly.
maybe some of you could give me your steps in how you do it.

Don't really have anyone here close to me that reloads so I'm just going at this all on my own.
any info would be a huge help

 

[Bearlodge10]

Yes the ladder test is fairly simple from the outside looking in but can get confusing. In the article you describe, the author is really looking for the standard deviation of velocity as it corresponds with accuracy. That is just one way to use a ladder test when reloading.
The first question to ask yourself is what is the goal you are looking to accomplish. If it is purely accuracy, then a chrono isn't really needed as you are just looking to find what load works the best in your rifle. With that said having a chrono can be beneficial as it will allow you to see if your rifle groups better at a certain velocity to which you can change components like bullet weight, powder etc. and still look for that magical number. For me, I try to find a load that gives me the best group and then I change the seating depth (up and down) to see if the group will tighten up. I do this by having a starting load .3 grains below the starting load and going to the Max with .3 or .5 grain increases. In my experience, I look first for pressure signs within the ladder test before I look at speeds. With that said, I have never chased the speeds but the accuracy. I mention the pressure signs as I disagree with the article because I try to back off the lands a bit when starting my load testing so that I am not hitting pressure spikes. However, if you are loading certain bullets (Barnes are good example) I do try to adhere to their suggestions as to the seating depths etc.

 

[BuckSnort]

200 yards is way too close for a ladder test IMO... 400 yards or more will make the "nodes" stand out better...

 

[tdhanses]

200 yards is way too close for a ladder test IMO... 400 yards or more will make the "nodes" stand out better...

I would say 300 yards or further for ladder testing. Personally I don’t think this is a very accurate method. On one load you can have a huge swing in velocities but maybe just maybe in your ladder test that swing doesn’t show. It will later on of course.

Personally I prefer 5 shot groupings and a chrono.

 

[doverpack12]

I will use a ladder to find pressure but at 50 plus grains i'm not using 0.3 grain increments and if 70 plus grains I might even use 1 grain increments. 7-10 shots in a ladder (primarily for pressure) shot at 300 because that is the furthest my range goes, using a chronograph and recording each shot impact visually so I don't get shots mixed up. Sometimes the ladder works and sometimes it doesn't, I think tdhanses is right that the velocity variation shot to shot with the same powder charge can give you a false node if two shots go high then low or the opposite. I do like to know my max pressure and figure I might as well use those shots for some additional data. I will pick the best "node or two" and load up a 4 shot group for testing but that doesn't always work. After that I will use my max pressure data and start shooting groups at different charge weights and if it's still not coming together then I will switch powder or seating depth and do it again. I typically start with my seating depth 0.020" off the lands just because I have no need or desire to be right on the lands and when measuring by feel 0.020" off could actually be touching or almost there and I just can't feel it yet.

 

[mtnwrunner]

Ditto on the distance. I usually do it at 4 or 500 yards.....real easy to see your nodes.
I also color the front end of the bullet with a sharpie and use white paper to shoot at. You can then tell what round it is by the color of the sharpie. 8andbait on RK showed me that trick....works great.


Randy

 

[Nealm66]

I’ve had good luck without a chronograph. I start with the beginning load charge and work my way up depending on the case capacity ( large case 80gr and up I will jump up 2 or 3 tenths of a grain. I use 4 shot groups. I prefer 200 yards so I can see through my scope. I will look for my tightest group.I use the bullet manufacturers suggested coal to start . I won’t change it unless I’m not getting a tight group. Once I have an acceptable group I will load 10 more at the same charge to confirm. Once that’s done I will use an app and compare my drop out to 600 yards adjusting the fps to match. Seems to work fine for me . I try not to do ladder tests in hot or cold days. I use newer brass and suggested primers to start

 

[BuckSnort]

I’ve had good luck without a chronograph. I start with the beginning load charge and work my way up depending on the case capacity ( large case 80gr and up I will jump up 2 or 3 tenths of a grain. I use 4 shot groups. I prefer 200 yards so I can see through my scope. I will look for my tightest group.I use the bullet manufacturers suggested coal to start . I won’t change it unless I’m not getting a tight group. Once I have an acceptable group I will load 10 more at the same charge to confirm. Once that’s done I will use an app and compare my drop out to 600 yards adjusting the fps to match. Seems to work fine for me . I try not to do ladder tests in hot or cold days. I use newer brass and suggested primers to start

I believe thats loading for OCW, not a ladder test..

 

[menhaden_man]

What’s the go-to chronograph? I’m like the OP and have some sweet rounds for several guns... but also have a couple rifles that are finicky enough to warrant extra TLC. Was thinking of grabbing a magnetospeed.

 

[tdhanses]

What’s the go-to chronograph? I’m like the OP and have some sweet rounds for several guns... but also have a couple rifles that are finicky enough to warrant extra TLC. Was thinking of grabbing a magnetospeed.

Depends on budget, lab radar is supposed to be the best, the magnetospeed Sporter is what I use and is pretty dang affordable and accurate. The in between is the Magnetospeed V3.

 

[doverpack12]

What’s the go-to chronograph? I’m like the OP and have some sweet rounds for several guns... but also have a couple rifles that are finicky enough to warrant extra TLC. Was thinking of grabbing a magnetospeed.

Had a Magnetospeed V3 and really liked the accuracy and how well it worked, however it does change point of impact and group size depending on the barrel contour. Ended up selling that and splitting a Labradar 3 ways which has shown to be every bit as accurate and pretty much just as easy to setup, but has zero affect on the bullet. Only downside is the labradar had trouble picking up the trophy bonded tip bullets my friend was shooting (nickel plating), and a magnetospeed V3 picked them up fine. Magnetospeed doesn't read hardcast lead (10mm), and supposedly magnetospeed doesn't read mono bullets well but I never had a problem.

 

[SwampRocket]

I use the ladder test at 600 yards. I typically do not use a chrono while doing this. I start 10% below the load data max and work up in .5 grain or .3 grain increments, looking for pressure signs as I go. I start with the bullet just off of the lands, as this will create the highest pressure signs. I do it this way so as I seat the bullet back later on, pressure should decrease. At 600 you will definitely see different nodes. I will then take highest charge node and play with seating depth and maybe use the chrono. All of this is still done at a minimum of 300.

To be honest, the majority of time I dont even use a chrono. As long as the groups are good, I just dope it out to 800 and plug that in to an app, truing the velocity to the dope.

 

[Nealm66]

I’m always curious for those that use a chronograph to find a node if they strap the gun into a vise to eliminate the human shoulder. I watched a video of a guy explaining how the slight fps difference in nodes only starts to have large effects after 600 yards. Interesting video. So many variables. I wish I had better access to shoot a lot at distances past 600 that didn’t involve crossing a swamp and climbing up through a 10 year old clear cut that a black bear would go around lol