KUIU System Questions

[wnelson14]

It seems like alot of people seem to recommend this type of setup over using softshell jackets like the Axis, Guide, Jetstream, etc. I'm not trying to start a debate by any means, because I'm asking for advice with no experience on the matter. But doesn't carrying a down jacket and rain jacket create more of a burden and more layers to take on and off than a softshell, if conditions allow for it? My climate here in SW NM is very warm and dry. During my November hunt, I will more than likely experience no rain at all, and it could be almost 80 degrees and no clouds if we get hit with a warm spell. January might bring a flurry or two, but again, more than likely no rain. It will be windy on that hunt, and I definitely see the purpose of a down jacket in the morning. In my limited experience, a softshell is good at filling both roles but not great at either. Additionally, if I were bow hunting, there's no way I could put on a stalk in my current rain jacket in calm conditions.

If I was in your situation I would ditch the rain jacket and run something like the Corrugate guide jacket from FL, more of like a heavy wind layer without fleece. To me that’s more versatile than a Softshell. Mix and match with down and a mid layer and it’s basically a soft shell.

 

[Theringworm]

Soft shells are great for truck camping where you can come back each night to your truck and regroup etc. A true backpack hunt where you won’t see your vehicle until the hunt is over you want to maximize versatility with weight and space savings. Soft shells don’t allow you to do that most generally. As described below you can take 2-3 pieces of clothing for every 1 soft shell.

The reason you see that recommended a lot is because a great setup typically includes multiple layers that you do have to take on and off. Case in point, the Guide jacket is 24 oz. The Super Down Ultra 7.9 oz and the Chugach is 14 oz. So with the latter two, you have added flexibility in temps and situations to wear them and save 2.1 oz and a lot of space as they both pack down very small compared to the bulkier Gude jacket. Even in West Texas (similar to SW New Mexico) I always have rain gear. Unnecessary to some but it’s a small weight penalty. I use it more to block the wind more than the rain, and if it really is cold I’ll use it to prevent my down jacket from getting shredded in the undergrowth as a protective layer.

The Peloton 240 or strong fleece 280 will do almost exactly the same thing as the Guide but are 8-10oz lighter. Then you supplement with the Down or Chugach to get more coverage. All brands Kuiu, Sitka, SG, First lite, etc have a lot of overlapping redundancy which makes it very difficult to sort through it all.


For a backpack hunt, the goal is to increase your flexibility while saving weight and space. If you are truck hunting or are hunting out of a base camp that you can drive to, none of the above really matters As you can simply leave whatever behind

 

[dreamingWest]

Softshells are nice for day hunts when the forecast is agreeable.

 

[Keener22]

Soft shells are great for truck camping where you can come back each night to your truck and regroup etc. A true backpack hunt where you won’t see your vehicle until the hunt is over you want to maximize versatility with weight and space savings. Soft shells don’t allow you to do that most generally. As described below you can take 2-3 pieces of clothing for every 1 soft shell.

The reason you see that recommended a lot is because a great setup typically includes multiple layers that you do have to take on and off. Case in point, the Guide jacket is 24 oz. The Super Down Ultra 7.9 oz and the Chugach is 14 oz. So with the latter two, you have added flexibility in temps and situations to wear them and save 2.1 oz and a lot of space as they both pack down very small compared to the bulkier Gude jacket. Even in West Texas (similar to SW New Mexico) I always have rain gear. Unnecessary to some but it’s a small weight penalty. I use it more to block the wind more than the rain, and if it really is cold I’ll use it to prevent my down jacket from getting shredded in the undergrowth as a protective layer.

The Peloton 240 or strong fleece 280 will do almost exactly the same thing as the Guide but are 8-10oz lighter. Then you supplement with the Down or Chugach to get more coverage. All brands Kuiu, Sitka, SG, First lite, etc have a lot of overlapping redundancy which makes it very difficult to sort through it all.


For a backpack hunt, the goal is to increase your flexibility while saving weight and space. If you are truck hunting or are hunting out of a base camp that you can drive to, none of the above really matters As you can simply leave whatever behind

Understood. Thank you very much for the thorough explanation.

My planned system looks like this so far:
Sitka Merino LW Bottoms (if needed)
Kutana Pants (Ash)
Peloton 97 Hoodie
Peloton 240 Zip*
Sitka Kelvin Lite Down*
Sitka Dew Point rain gear

* Still need to purchase these. Since I’m hunting out of the truck for these two hunts, I may pick up a down vest to try out as well if I find a sale. I also need to decide on a base layer top, will likely do the merino 125 or peloton 118.

 

[JStol5]

Maybe ya’ll can help me choose a dedicated midlayer- looking at the pro merino 200 or the 97/200 peloton. I hunt California/Arizona primarily, my current hoody is garbage. I get cold easy when still but warm up a LOT when moving. Leaning towards the Pro Merino but would like to hear some thoughts.

I usually run base layer, mid layer, then puffy. I want something I can move in without sweating my a$$ off.

 

[Keener22]

Maybe ya’ll can help me choose a dedicated midlayer- looking at the pro merino 200 or the 97/200 peloton. I hunt California/Arizona primarily, my current hoody is garbage. I get cold easy when still but warm up a LOT when moving. Leaning towards the Pro Merino but would like to hear some thoughts.

I usually run base layer, mid layer, then puffy. I want something I can move in without sweating my a$$ off.

So far I have used the 97 and 240 both together and individually. I think the 97 is a great mid layer for when you want to move. I get pretty warm when I hike too, especially with weight on my back. The 240 is great at stopping wind and provides good warmth for how thin it is. My disclaimer is that I haven’t really put them through their paces yet, just out and about when scouting and bird hunting.

 

[Lunchbox37]

My kit for 10’s to low 40’s @ 8.5k - 11k ft w/snow:
Top:
1) UA short sleeve compression Top (help prevents hotspots with a pack)
2) Kuiu 125 merino long sleeve base
3) Kuiu Peloton 240 full zip
4) Kuiu ultra down vest
5) Firstlite Kiln 250 beanie/Kuiu air mesh cap
6) Kuiu guide gloves w/ aero wool liners (when needed)

Bottom:
1) Kuiu 145 merino bottoms
2) Axis Pants

This setup worked great for me. Early morning elevation gains and hikes I would often have to unzip the 240 to left off some of the heat, by afternoon (if we were moving) I’d usually end up in just the 125 top and axis vents open. Now I do run on the hotter side, but it kept me plenty warm even when I was all “sweated up”.

 

[Keener22]

I’ll throw out a lengthy update/review for any current or future readers of this thread. My 5 day deer hunt ended unsuccessfully, but I got to put the gear I purchased and other stuff I already had through some good testing. All the stuff mentioned below is in Valo, minus the Kutana pants which are Ash.

We had a cold front come through during the hunt, which dropped temps to 50s for a daytime high and mid 20s/low 30s at night. Winds ranged from 10-15mph sustained and 15-25 mph gusts with the exception of one day that saw 20mph sustained, 35mph gusts. This made some of the glassing knobs pretty chilly, especially for being the first real cold front of the fall for us.

My basic system that I always had on consisted of the Kutana pants, UM 125 LS, Peloton 97. I would hike in the mornings and evenings wearing just this. Once we sat, I would throw on my Peloton 240, gloves, beanie, etc.

I forgot my Sitka LW Merino bottoms at home, which definitely affected how warm I was. I ended up throwing on my Dew Point rain pants once we sat down for morning and evenings temps, this made a difference for awhile. Overall the system worked okay, but I was definitely missing some insulation and wasn’t prepared for the cold front that wasn’t forecasted when I left home. The 97 doesn’t hold up to wind at all and was consistently cut through even during afternoon temps. The 240 blocked the wind very well. However, once that thing got cold it was brutal. With basically no insulation underneath, there was nothing to stay warm. The 97 is a good mid layer hiking piece, but that’s it beyond 45-50 degrees for me. I can see how some say it is overrated. The Kutana pants are awesome and definitely very durable. I went through some tough, thorny stuff and even plowed right through a dead, gray cactus one morning. No holes, cuts, or even picks that I have noticed. With proper layering they will be an awesome pant even in colder weather.

Going forward I will be adding more insulation, but I am undecided on which pieces to add. I think the “correct” answer is to add a puffy set, which I will do. If anyone has any input on the Sitka Kelvin Down vs Kuiu Super Pro down I would appreciate it. I also considered heavier mid layers like the new Axis Thermal, Pro Merino 200, or a Strongfleece. However, I can’t wear these while moving. I think the Sitka Ambient hoodie may be exactly what I want, with a puffy on standby for sitting down.

In KUIU’s recent sale, I picked up a Kenai beanie, Guide X gloves, and the Pro Pants. I needed to return the Pro Pants for a bigger size, but actually opted for the Talus pants. They should be warmer and more durable, but the Pro pants seemed quality as well but without a micro fleece inner lining. I wanted the Axis in Ash but they don’t come in a short length. The Kenai beanie should be warm. The Guide X gloves seemed a bit thin for what Kuiu calls their warmest glove before you get into the glomits and what not, but with liners they should be a good functional glove.

 

[Theringworm]

I want to write a review on a pair of Kuiu gloves I recently used on Kuiu's website that was extremely disappointing regarding their "waterproof" claim. Either I am doing something wrong, or they won't allow you to review any of their items. Anyone able to tell me how to do that on their site? Thanks

 

[pawlyb]

I’ll throw out a lengthy update/review for any current or future readers of this thread. My 5 day deer hunt ended unsuccessfully, but I got to put the gear I purchased and other stuff I already had through some good testing. All the stuff mentioned below is in Valo, minus the Kutana pants which are Ash.

We had a cold front come through during the hunt, which dropped temps to 50s for a daytime high and mid 20s/low 30s at night. Winds ranged from 10-15mph sustained and 15-25 mph gusts with the exception of one day that saw 20mph sustained, 35mph gusts. This made some of the glassing knobs pretty chilly, especially for being the first real cold front of the fall for us.

My basic system that I always had on consisted of the Kutana pants, UM 125 LS, Peloton 97. I would hike in the mornings and evenings wearing just this. Once we sat, I would throw on my Peloton 240, gloves, beanie, etc.

I forgot my Sitka LW Merino bottoms at home, which definitely affected how warm I was. I ended up throwing on my Dew Point rain pants once we sat down for morning and evenings temps, this made a difference for awhile. Overall the system worked okay, but I was definitely missing some insulation and wasn’t prepared for the cold front that wasn’t forecasted when I left home. The 97 doesn’t hold up to wind at all and was consistently cut through even during afternoon temps. The 240 blocked the wind very well. However, once that thing got cold it was brutal. With basically no insulation underneath, there was nothing to stay warm. The 97 is a good mid layer hiking piece, but that’s it beyond 45-50 degrees for me. I can see how some say it is overrated. The Kutana pants are awesome and definitely very durable. I went through some tough, thorny stuff and even plowed right through a dead, gray cactus one morning. No holes, cuts, or even picks that I have noticed. With proper layering they will be an awesome pant even in colder weather.

Going forward I will be adding more insulation, but I am undecided on which pieces to add. I think the “correct” answer is to add a puffy set, which I will do. If anyone has any input on the Sitka Kelvin Down vs Kuiu Super Pro down I would appreciate it. I also considered heavier mid layers like the new Axis Thermal, Pro Merino 200, or a Strongfleece. However, I can’t wear these while moving. I think the Sitka Ambient hoodie may be exactly what I want, with a puffy on standby for sitting down.

In KUIU’s recent sale, I picked up a Kenai beanie, Guide X gloves, and the Pro Pants. I needed to return the Pro Pants for a bigger size, but actually opted for the Talus pants. They should be warmer and more durable, but the Pro pants seemed quality as well but without a micro fleece inner lining. I wanted the Axis in Ash but they don’t come in a short length. The Kenai beanie should be warm. The Guide X gloves seemed a bit thin for what Kuiu calls their warmest glove before you get into the glomits and what not, but with liners they should be a good functional glove.

For your legs you might like the kenai pants and as for KUIU puffies I think the super down ultra would be adequate for your application, however the kelvin lite down is everywhere on sale right now and that's a good one. That would be my vote - Kelvin Lite Down in some reasonable solid color

 

[Keener22]

For your legs you might like the kenai pants and as for KUIU puffies I think the super down ultra would be adequate for your application, however the kelvin lite down is everywhere on sale right now and that's a good one. That would be my vote - Kelvin Lite Down in some reasonable solid color

Have you used the Kuiu Super Down Pro? They seem more durable and warmer from what I’ve read, and while I don’t probably need that much warmth for down south, I will occasionally hunt up north once I build enough points.

I really considered the Kelvin Lite pants as well, but they are 3/4 and also don’t come in a solid from what I’ve seen. The Kelvin Lite jacket seems like my best option for a puffy jacket because I get a very good price on Sitka compared to Kuiu and others.

 

[pawlyb]

Have you used the Kuiu Super Down Pro? They seem more durable and warmer from what I’ve read, and while I don’t probably need that much warmth for down south, I will occasionally hunt up north once I build enough points.

I really considered the Kelvin Lite pants as well, but they are 3/4 and also don’t come in a solid from what I’ve seen. The Kelvin Lite jacket seems like my best option for a puffy jacket because I get a very good price on Sitka compared to Kuiu and others.

I have used only the kuiu ultra down jacket. It was good to 30’s but below freezing would be pushing it - but as you said, for the price point, kelvin lite down will probably be even better. My brother has the kelvin lite down puffy and 3/4 pants. The 3/4 pants are a little weird, we spent a night out on the mountain and his shins were a cold spot. I personally use the SG Grumman pants, which are good below freezing. They don’t seem durable at all though. I still think for durability synthetic pants may be worth looking at, especially since legs don’t tend to get as cold as one’s upper body.

 

[Theringworm]

I can comment on a lot of the above. Just returned from my SE Alaskan goat hunt. Temps ranged from the upper teens to lower 30s the entire time. Snow and rain for virtually the entire trip. Not a ton of wind but a steady 5-10 mph wind with infrequent gusts up to 20mph.

My setup was:

Bottom layers for skiff travel:
Smartwool 245 base layer
I alternated a Kuiu Peloton 118 zip off and a Pro Merino 200 zip off bottom depending on the day. Honestly felt they both performed the same
Kuiu Pro pant
Kuiu Super Down Pro pant
Kuiu Chugach rain pant

Active layers:
Once out of the skiff and climbing the zip off base layer and the Super down pro we’re removed. For active efforts I was extremely warm and I am typically cold natured. The super down pro does have a DWR coating to it and has a tougher outer layer compared to the Super Doan Ultra. However I couldn’t imagine wearing any of these while active. I would be sweating profusely if so. I always have packed in my backpack the Kuiu Super Down Ultra jacket and pants, and would put them on if we stopped to glass or were taking care of a downed animal as I got chilled.

Top layers while in the skiff:

Smartwool 245
Alternated between Kuiu Ultramerino 145 or Pelton 118
Kuiu Pelton 240 zip
Kuiu Super Down Pro
Kuiu Chugach

Active layers:

Once hiking I removed the Ultramerino 145 or Peleton 118, and the Super Down Pro jacket. Once I even took off the Peleton 240 zip as I was boiling and just hiked in my base layer and the Chugach jacket. You’ll be amazed at how much heat you produce when moving. If I got chilled some of those layers would be put back on or I would pulle out the Super Down Ultra jacket.

The expedition gloves are super warm. So warm that when hiking and sweating if I removed them I fought like hell to put them back on given the very tight opening and my now sweaty/clammy hands. The are NOT waterproof. I wrong out over 3/4 of a cup of water from the at the end of the day. Hands were soaked. Granted, and I’ll admit, they stil kept my hands warm…..somehow, but they were soaking wet. I abandoned them the rest of the trip and used a merino insert inside of those Alaskan fisherman blue gloves you see them wear. Those things are amazing and the best money a glove can buy for $20.

So, yes the Pro pant has a more resistant outer coating and is definitely warmer than the Uktra, but no way would I hike in either. Obviouksy the Ultra packs down a lot smaller as well. I would never take the Pros top or bottom on a true pack in pack out backpack hunt. Too bulky. I wore the U,yea in temps below 30 without issues. It all depends on your layering setup underneath and current conditions (wind etc) that
at will determine if it will be that added effective layer you need it to be.

 

[Keener22]

I have used only the kuiu ultra down jacket. It was good to 30’s but below freezing would be pushing it - but as you said, for the price point, kelvin lite down will probably be even better. My brother has the kelvin lite down puffy and 3/4 pants. The 3/4 pants are a little weird, we spent a night out on the mountain and his shins were a cold spot. I personally use the SG Grumman pants, which are good below freezing. They don’t seem durable at all though. I still think for durability synthetic pants may be worth looking at, especially since legs don’t tend to get as cold as one’s upper body.

That was my concern with the 3/4s. I feel like that opening could really negate the warmth in certain situations. I’ll look at the Kenai pants too. I agree that I probably don’t need the warmest puffy pants, I feel like a good heavy base with either my talus or mountain pants is pretty warm already.

 

[Keener22]

Obviosu

I can comment on a lot of the above. Just returned from my SE Alaskan goat hunt. Temps ranged from the upper teens to lower 30s the entire time. Snow and rain for virtually the entire trip. Not a ton of wind but a steady 5-10 mph wind with infrequent gusts up to 20mph.

My setup was:

Bottom layers for skiff travel:
Smartwool 245 base layer
I alternated a Kuiu Peloton 118 zip off and a Pro Merino 200 zip off bottom depending on the day. Honestly felt they both performed the same
Kuiu Pro pant
Kuiu Super Down Pro pant
Kuiu Chugach rain pant

Active layers:
Once out of the skiff and climbing the zip off base layer and the Super down pro we’re removed. For active efforts I was extremely warm and I am typically cold natured. The super down pro does have a DWR coating to it and has a tougher outer layer compared to the Super Doan Ultra. However I couldn’t imagine wearing any of these while active. I would be sweating profusely if so. I always have packed in my backpack the Kuiu Super Down Ultra jacket and pants, and would put them on if we stopped to glass or were taking care of a downed animal as I got chilled.

Top layers while in the skiff:

Smartwool 245
Alternated between Kuiu Ultramerino 145 or Pelton 118
Kuiu Pelton 240 zip
Kuiu Super Down Pro
Kuiu Chugach

Active layers:

Once hiking I removed the Ultramerino 145 or Peleton 118, and the Super Down Pro jacket. Once I even took off the Peleton 240 zip as I was boiling and just hiked in my base layer and the Chugach jacket. You’ll be amazed at how much heat you produce when moving. If I got chilled some of those layers would be put back on or I would pulle out the Super Down Ultra jacket.

The expedition gloves are super warm. So warm that when hiking and sweating if I removed them I fought like hell to put them back on given the very tight opening and my now sweaty/clammy hands. The are NOT waterproof. I wrong out over 3/4 of a cup of water from the at the end of the day. Hands were soaked. Granted, and I’ll admit, they stil kept my hands warm…..somehow, but they were soaking wet. I abandoned them the rest of the trip and used a merino insert inside of those Alaskan fisherman blue gloves you see them wear. Those things are amazing and the best money a glove can buy for $20.

So, yes the Pro pant has a more resistant outer coating and is definitely warmer than the Uktra, but no way would I hike in either. Obviouksy the Ultra packs down a lot smaller as well. I would never take the Pros top or bottom on a true pack in pack out backpack hunt. Too bulky. I wore the U,yea in temps below 30 without issues. It all depends on your layering setup underneath and current conditions (wind etc) that
at will determine if it will be that added effective layer you need it to be.

Awesome chunk of info. How much would your system change if you aren’t wearing the Chugach gear over everything? Clearly you needed it where you were, but for a dry climate I almost never need it outside of monsoon season, if I have another wind breaking layer. Also I am unfamiliar with KUIU’s rain gear. Is the Chugach a heavier line and is it insulated? How is it on noise?

 

[Theringworm]

It wouldn't change much at all. I wore the same layering system hunting elk in NM the end of October and the same for chasing mule deer in West Texas. I have some heavier and lighter weight tops and bottoms that I add on or exchange other pieces out for but it is basically the same layering system.

As far as Kuiu rain gear goes, the Chugach is their middle weight gear. IMO it's the perfect option for everything. I have backpacked with it in Alaska for my moose hunt and it has seen multiple trips to Colorado and NM for elk. They have a lighter weight line which I don't recall the name of but it's paper thin. I don't think it's terribly waterproof nor rip proof. I have buster through alder forests in Alaska 3 of the last 4 years with my Chugach and it has never tore. They have a heavier weight line called the Yukon. This is for basically anything with expected/guaranteed down pours. I.e. the Pacific North West. I own the jacket but not the pants. It's thicker and heavier. Not a great backpacking option but it is their most waterproof.

I don't just wear their rain gear for rain/snow. If it's super windy, I put it on to act as an additional wind barrier. Plus I can layer my puffy Down Ultra stuff under it and the rain gear prevents the puffy layers form getting shredded in dense brush.

It's all about layering. The more flexible your pieces of gear are for multiple situations the less gear you have to take with you. Kuiu, Sitka, First Lite, Stone Glacier etc etc. They all offer more or less the exact same gear just different patterns and materials made for "ACTIVE" hunting. Get what fits best for you and what is the most affordable. Mix and match, do whatever works. The stuff is expensive and it all overlaps so you can easily duplicate the same intended use by buying 2 or 3 different pieces. No reason to have 2-3 shirts that all do the exact same thing. Avoiding duplicating pieces is the hardest part of this entire process.

 

[Keener22]

It's all about layering. The more flexible your pieces of gear are for multiple situations the less gear you have to take with you. Kuiu, Sitka, First Lite, Stone Glacier etc etc. They all offer more or less the exact same gear just different patterns and materials made for "ACTIVE" hunting. Get what fits best for you and what is the most affordable. Mix and match, do whatever works. The stuff is expensive and it all overlaps so you can easily duplicate the same intended use by buying 2 or 3 different pieces. No reason to have 2-3 shirts that all do the exact same thing. Avoiding duplicating pieces is the hardest part of this entire process.

This is mostly why I started this thread. I have a pretty decent understand of Sitka’s gear as that’s where I started building my system. I wanted to try Kuiu because I like the Valo pattern. I hop on their website, and they have 4 different mid layer materials that are in 4-5 weights each. It’s a lot to sort through and places like rokslide have helped me not buy one of each damn thing before I figure it all out.