KUIU Super Down vs. Western Mountaineering Badger, 15-degree bags

[Mike Islander]

Good read on bags. I really like both my WM bags and my sleep has been better since getting some of the wider cut models, even though I’m a small guy.

I think where these bags are made is worth while to mention. While I know it does not matter to some,Im happy my bags carry the little label on the foot box

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Same here. I'm a Western Mountaineerring bigot. After following this thread and reading every page I have come to realize that no matter how the tests go my current WM bag and all future bags will remain Western Mountaineering. I trust their experience, workmanship, materials, and judgment on where to build a bag.

 

[robby denning]

Same here. I'm a Western Mountaineerring bigot. After following this thread and reading every page I have come to realize that no matter how the tests go my current WM bag and all future bags will remain Western Mountaineering. I trust their experience, workmanship, materials, and judgment on where to build a bag.

And I’m sure that’s a safe bet.


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[Kevin_t]

Same here. I'm a Western Mountaineerring bigot. After following this thread and reading every page I have come to realize that no matter how the tests go my current WM bag and all future bags will remain Western Mountaineering. I trust their experience, workmanship, materials, and judgment on where to build a bag.

Plus 1 . And while I know they won’t do as well on the dunking test , I also think that test isn’t relevant to anyone taking the tiniest amount of precautions ... and recent discussions elsewhere lend me to believe WM is on the right side of the water resistant down debate ( and based on my own experience as well having had both )


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[SgtTanner]

...recent discussions elsewhere lend me to believe WM is on the right side of the water resistant down debate

Care to enlighten us?

 

[Kevin_t]

My personal experience was it wasn’t as lofty , especially coming out of the stuff sack . A few manufacturers have moved away from it .Apparently it can wash out and when it does wash out the down is in worse shape than if it had never been treated


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[sneaky]

I look at it like any other DWR treatment. Great when it's new, but leaves you compromised once it wears off.

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[SgtTanner]

My personal experience was it wasn’t as lofty , especially coming out of the stuff sack . A few manufacturers have moved away from it .Apparently it can wash out and when it does wash out the down is in worse shape than if it had never been treated


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Makes sense, thanks for the explanation!

 

[Mike Islander]

My personal experience was it wasn’t as lofty , especially coming out of the stuff sack . A few manufacturers have moved away from it .Apparently it can wash out and when it does wash out the down is in worse shape than if it had never been treated


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That's also the opinion of WM, that artificial water resistance treatment removes the natural oils from the down. I trust them more than any other bag builder. I could be wrong, but they are experts and I put my trust in them.

 

[robby denning]

OK guys time for the soak test.

VERY UNSCIENTIFIC

We’re supposed to have about an eighth of an inch of rain over the next few hours. So I’ve laid the bags out side-by-side, and put a little rain gauge next to them. I did the best I could to close the tops with that stick so the water doesn’t run right down in the bags. I’ll give it a few hours then open them up and see what happened.

You’ll also notice I put two trays of water under each of the foot boxes with about a quarter inch of water in each one. We’ll see if that puddle simulation causes a soak-through in the foot box.

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[sneaky]

OK guys time for the soak test.

VERY UNSCIENTIFIC

We’re supposed to have about an eighth of an inch of rain over the next few hours. So I’ve laid the bags out side-by-side, and put a little rain gauge next to them. I did the best I could to close the tops with that stick so the water doesn’t run right down in the bags. I’ll give it a few hours then open them up and see what happened.

You’ll also notice I put two trays of water under each of the foot boxes with about a quarter inch of water in each one. We’ll see if that puddle simulation causes a soak-through in the foot box.

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You're like the Bill Nye the Science Guy of sleeping bag tests

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[robby denning]

The soak test is done! Hot off the presses... and there was a winner

Please remember this is a simple NOT SCIENTIFIC TEST that may or may not replicate actual circumstances that can lead to a wet bag.

I will say, though, that modern down bags are nothing like those I grew up around.

 

[sneaky]

Man, same day video posting. We're spoiled. That should answer the questions about whether guys need to spend extra money and haul extra weight for a Gore Tex shell on a WM bag. Very few locations would warrant that.

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[tdot]

Awesome test. Thanks Robby.

 

[zacattack]

The soak test is done! Hot off the presses... and there was a winner

Please remember this is a simple NOT SCIENTIFIC TEST that may or may not replicate actual circumstances that can lead to a wet bag.

I will say, though, that modern down bags are nothing like those I grew up around.

That was pretty sweet. Makes sense though, I don’t know what feathers are treated with but if you’ve ever handled a goose you know that those are some oily SOB’s. And all that oil is fantastic at water resistance.

 

[Kevin_t]

The WM shell of the series the badger is is technically waterproof though water can get through stitch holes but I suppose you could fix that if desired .

Good test @Robby . I’m usually critical of tests that are not super relevant but that is relevant and a solid video . IE ... you really can sleep under a misty a tarp in a WM bag and get misting and stuff and it isn’t a big deal.

IMO , the shells on WM bags are better than most at creating a comfortable bag .


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[SgtTanner]

The soak test is done! Hot off the presses... and there was a winner

Please remember this is a simple NOT SCIENTIFIC TEST that may or may not replicate actual circumstances that can lead to a wet bag.

I will say, though, that modern down bags are nothing like those I grew up around.

I think you just made my mind up for me, Robby. Is this a standard WM Badger, or one with the overfill? I guess that’s my next decision.

 

[Fins_N_Tines]

I look at it like any other DWR treatment. Great when it's new, but leaves you compromised once it wears off.

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Yeah when I called Feathered Friends and discussed the 900fill they use they said in all their testing treated down wasn't as lofty and which wasn't as warm long term. They did say the only advantage they found was once the down was wet it did dry faster.

 

[Fins_N_Tines]

The badger uses the Microfiber fabric which is 20d. It is obviously more weather resistant than the WM Extremelite fabric, but has anyone here done testing or real world wet conditions with the Extremelite fabric?

I had the WM Alpinelite, which uses the extremelite, and loved it; but only had it in very wet condition on two nights which is not a big enough sampling size to know for sure. I and am either going to get another one or the Badger. Even though the Extremelite fabric is 12d i'm wondering if it is more than sufficient for most lower 48 hunts in dryer climates such as CO highcountry.

 

[Kevin_t]

I forget the exact specs but the extreme light is 1200 I think which is still as high as many tents. The micro is higher . What I think most people will notice between the fabrics is the microfiber breathes a fair amount better so it feels more dry inside which probably makes a wider comfort range ( at least in my experience bags that breath better I’ve generally though had a larger comfort range as they were less clammy )


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[robby denning]

I think you just made my mind up for me, Robby. Is this a standard WM Badger, or one with the overfill? I guess that’s my next decision.

I don’t know! I just do what Ryan says and he said “test these bags!”

How could I tell if it’s “...overfill”?


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