Kowa 774 to 55s?

[HingleMcCringleberry]

Has anyone gone from a full size spotter like a 774 to a compact like the 55s or Swarovski Stc?

Did you regret the decision? Have you noticed a difference besides weight and volume savings?

 

[Peak a Week]

This is a good question, and one I’ve thought about too since I carry a 773 for everything.

Unfortunately I think the answer is to own both…

Maybe more doable now that 553/554’s are so cheap? Its not like 553’s got magically worse all of a sudden, they just aren’t the new hotness anymore.

 

[Valumpessa]

I did. Got a 554 last year after dropping down from a 65mm spotter. Then shortly after, picked up a 773 strictly for a side by side comparison. I don't scan/grid with my spotter, so it was just a test of picking up detail when zoomed in.

One evening I had both focused on a doe feeding in a clearcut around 500 yds out. The 77 at 60x and the 55 at 45x. The 77 was easier on the eye, noticeably brighter and provided good detail a few minutes later into the evening. Until those last few minutes though, I didn't feel the 55 was giving up anything at that distance. In real hunting situations for the areas I hunt, that's what mattered to me... and it didn't hurt the 55 was about half the weight. In the end I could only afford to keep one and sold the 773.

After a year I've had no desire to go back to a larger objective.

 

[eaglemountainman]

Man, that's a tough decision. Both are spectacular scopes. I will tell you that I have a 554 and an 884, and the 554 would be the last to go. With its optical quality and just 28oz, it has a permanent place in my pack.
But that 774 is such a great all rounder, I would hate to give it up. Actually wish I had the 774 instead of the 884. Unless there's some young blood along to carry it, it only gets used for truck scouting.
I think if I was in your situation, I would keep the 774 and look around for a gently used 554, providing its within your budget. As others have stated, deals can be had on the older 554 since the new 55s/a have dropped.
Good luck. Let us know how you decide.

 

[ShakeDown]

I have had a STX, 88s, 554, ATC and an STC. I kept the 88s and the STC and have no intention of changing anything.

The STC is fantastic but can’t do what the 88s can do. For 80% of hunts the STC does the trick, but when I am scouting I almost always have the 88s.

 

[N2TRKYS]

I was debating between the 66s and the 55s.

 

[eaglemountainman]

I was debating between the 66s and the 55s.

They're still too new, but if I ever catch a great discount, I'll own one of those 66s.

 

[antlerz]

I have the 554 and its awesome but my ATS65 25-50 is the bomb for digiscope/range work and valley floor work. I wont sell the ats. I wouldnt leave home without the 554. Maybe if I tried the ATC or new kowa 55?

 

[huntnful]

I've had 554, 774 and 884.

It really depends on your style of hunting and glassing distances. The 554 is very handicapped at distances beyond about 1300 yards. Frames start to get fuzzy and blurred, to the point the spotter really isn't aiding in identifying the animal at all.

The 774 will perform adequately beyond 2000 yards. I'm talking counting points, seeing eyeguards and extras ect.

And the 884, even better yet.


IMO the small spotters aren't really even worth carrying, unless you solely want them for digiscoping at moderate ranges. Which they're great for that. But you're going to be carrying 28oz of weight, and it won't perform in A LOT of glassing scenarios. I'm constantly glassing deer with binos, well beyond the capability of the baby spotters. So they don't aid in anything once I find the animal. I'd rather have the extra weight and performance. But again, it depends how far you're normally glassing.

I would absolutely take a 774 and the weight penalty over the 554 and the clarity penalty. I personally carry an 884 everywhere. It's not light, but it does what a spotter is supposed to do.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

The 554 is very handicapped at distances beyond about 1300 yards. Frames start to get fuzzy and blurred, to the point the spotter really isn't aiding in identifying the animal at all.

I'm not sure the conditions that you were using the 554 in to come to this conclusion, but just wanted to offer my perspective so that someone doesn't get the wrong impression or atleast to offer another contrary experience.

I find this statement not to be accurate.

For it to be so, the glass would have to be inferior to the 77 series, when in fact it is not. It is actually better. There is no distance that is a limit fort the clarity and sharpness of the 55 series, wether the previous generation or the new. Poor lighting conditions will effect the light transmission and the limited FOV on the previous versions are limiting factors, but sharpness at distance is not one.

The new 55 and the Swaro ATC series are both most certainly worth carrying if you need a lightweight spotter and don't need the best low light performance or magnification above 40x. In fact I've used both the 553 and the ATC on multiple successful sheep hunts, both Dall and Bighorn.

Edit to add: Steve, maybe you had an inferior sample of a 55. I know that the 88 I briefly had was not as sharp as my 77, which it should have been. On Birdforum there are examples of some Kowa’s getting past QC that were most certainly not to the optical standard they should have been.

 

[huntnful]

I'm not sure the conditions that you were using the 554 in to come to this conclusion, but just wanted to offer my perspective so that someone doesn't get the wrong impression or atleast to offer another contrary experience.

I find this statement not to be accurate.

For it to be so, the glass would have to be inferior to the 77 series, when in fact it is not. It is actually better. There is no distance that is a limit fort the clarity and sharpness of the 55 series, wether the previous generation or the new. Poor lighting conditions will effect the light transmission and the limited FOV on the previous versions are limiting factors, but sharpness at distance is not one.

The new 55 and the Swaro ATC series are both most certainly worth carrying if you need a lightweight spotter and don't need the best low light performance or magnification above 40x. In fact I've used both the 553 and the ATC on multiple successful sheep hunts, both Dall and Bighorn.

It's the larger objective making mirage less obtrusive and probably how the lenses work throughout the larger spotter. Definitely not an optics specialists are far as that stuff is concerned. But I've had the 554 and 884 side by side, literally looking at the same deer, in the same lighting conditions and 1700 yards and you could not even put a frame on the buck with the 554. And with the 884 I could clearly see it was a good 4x4 with eyeguards. They just simply don't produce the same image, under any conditions. And the further away you're using them, the more apparent it becomes. I've used them side by side many times in the field before coming to the conclusion that the smaller spotters weren't going to work for my glassing needs.

Just want to clarify that I'm really talking LONG range glassing. Sub 1000 yards or so, yeah you'll be able to identify an animal much better with a baby spotter, than not having anything at all. That's why I put the caveat about glassing distances. But at truly long distances, the kowa 554 was very lackluster. I carried it for 2 years and love it for what it was.

 

[N2TRKYS]

They're still too new, but if I ever catch a great discount, I'll own one of those 66s.

I ordered an angled, but sent it back for a straight. What little I was able to play with the angled one, I can tell I’m gonna like the 66.

 

[huntnful]

Edit to add: Steve, maybe you had an inferior sample of a 55. I know that the 88 I briefly had was not as sharp as my 77, which it should have been. On Birdforum there are examples of some Kowa’s getting past QC that were most certainly not to the optical standard they should have been.

I took my personal 554 to alaska and couldn't believe how much it didn't stack up to my buddy's 774 on that hunt. Looking at the exact same animals, side by side. Much more mirage in the 554 making the image not even viable. Then I looked through his and see the bull plain as day.

Then I decided to step up to a larger spotter.

The example I replied with about the buck at 1700 yards, was now I was using an 884 and my buddy had his own 554. Same exact viewing experience when used side by side.

Objective diameter plays a huge role in clarity in my experience, with all optics really. I don't see why a 13" long 55mm objective spotter would be thought to produce the same exact image as a spotter literally twice it's size like the 99mm, even with the same glass and coatings. It's not just a light gathering thing. Many other things come into play with regards to the whole system producing a better image. I've definitely seen it many times.

I probably came off a little strong saying the baby spotters are useless weight haha. If I could ONLY carry a baby spotter, I absolutely would. Because it's better than nothing in a lot of scenarios. But they by no means stack up against their big brothers in field conditions at longer ranges. Like i've said, my hunting partner still has one and I still compare them all time on hunts.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

@Wyo_hntr I guess you’re going to just have to try one and compare for yourself!

Personally I now own and use an ATC & 66A. Both are phenomenal and serve different uses.

 

[huntnful]

@Wyo_hntr I guess you’re going to just have to try one and compare for yourself!

Personally I now own and use an ATC & 66A. Both are phenomenal and serve different uses.

Hahaha, probably threw his idea for a loop now . I think that new Kowa 66 would be an excellent middle ground for someone concerned a little about size and weight. But man, that new price tag sure isn't middle ground hahaha.

 

[HingleMcCringleberry]

@Wyo_hntr I guess you’re going to just have to try one and compare for yourself!

Personally I now own and use an ATC & 66A. Both are phenomenal and serve different uses.

I might just get the 55s and see for myself. Until then I guess I will be lugging the 774, which I really do absolutely enjoy using.

Or maybe a 66s is the perfect in between.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

I might just get the 55s and see for myself. Until then I guess I will be lugging the 774, which I really do absolutely enjoy using.

Or maybe a 66s is the perfect in between

I wouldn’t call the 66 “in between”
It’s only slightly smaller and lighter than the 77. Small enough difference that you wouldn’t notice in actual use. The quality is a step above the 77 though.

 

[huntnful]

I might just get the 55s and see for myself. Until then I guess I will be lugging the 774, which I really do absolutely enjoy using.

Or maybe a 66s is the perfect in between.

What distances do you intend to glass at? And maybe what animals are you looking at (deer, elk, trophy quality or just anything with horns ect) and possibly verified distances that you’ve glassed your further animals at and what not?

 

[HingleMcCringleberry]

Deer, elk, and sheep. I've used the 774 to spot elk out to 2 miles. Haven't used it on a deer hunt but will next this season. Sheep will also be this year and next. For deer I'm looking for trophy quality, for elk not so much I guess.

 

[huntnful]

Deer, elk, and sheep. I've used the 774 to spot elk out to 2 miles. Haven't used it on a deer hunt but will next this season. Sheep will also be this year and next. For deer I'm looking for trophy quality, for elk not so much I guess.

Perfect. So for elk, I’d say you’d be just fine with a smaller spotter. You can see them pretty easily at 2 miles with just binos, and then possibly just verify a bull is in the group with the little spotter. I verified a small bull elk at over 3 miles with my 554 under perfect conditions when the light hit his horns.

Deer is going to be tougher. I would say that you cannot count on reliably sizing up a buck for trophy quality with a 554 under most glassing conditions beyond 1500 yards. It’s either going to be too early, and not gathering enough light, or bright enough outside, but you’re going to be fighting mirage.

But close distances, definitely under 1000 yards and certainly beyond if it’s bright enough with no mirage, the 554 is adequate for searching for trophy quality. Like on a winter time hunt, in good bright conditions with no mirage, I’d say you’re safe even out beyond 1500 yards.

I glassed 2 bucks last year (separate hunts) each beyond 2300 yards in moderate conditions and could size them up well enough to know they were shooters with the 884. I am 1000% certain you could not even put frames on them, or possibly even just put horns on them with a 554. I used a 554 pretty extensively for 2 seasons. And I always measure my glassing distances to animals to understand my optics limitations for future hunting and scouting.


@B_Reynolds_AK would be much more knowledgeable on sheep and what distances he’s been able to size up rams in different environments and conditions. I have zero experience with that