Knight pergerine

[ENCORE]

Yes and no. The bullet WILL start slightly harder as the lands mark the bullet. Once the lands groove the bullet it will get slightly harder. If it falls down after being really tight, then IMO there's an issue and reason to contact Knight.

Its not necessary to have a TIGHT fitting bullet, but one wants enough force for the bullet to remain on the propellant. In a ........... CLEAN ......... barrel, a loading force of 10# or more will tighten up as soon as the first shot fouls the barrel.

 

[Verde]

Is the a way to measure the 10 lbs of loading force? or we talking by feel?

 

[ENCORE]

You'll have to go by feel. I forget, I use specialized equipment to measure forces. Some people with help just use bathroom scales. You have to be slow about the process because acceleration will give you a false reading.
If you can get the bullet to load in a fouled barrel, to where you can still load with one hand, ALMOST requiring two hands, that's the point I try to reach.

 

[Verde]

Thank you for the information. I appreciate it.
Verde

 

[Grillnugz]

@ENCORE you mentioned you’d modify the peregrine with a modular ignition system. Which one do you like?

 

[ENCORE]

@ENCORE you mentioned you’d modify the peregrine with a modular ignition system. Which one do you like?

I'd want the Arrowhead ignition system.

 

[Samg1707]

Update, I can’t get the pergerine to shoot worth a shit, ran out of time before ks muzzleloader to figure out exactly what the problem is, was using 150 gr by volume of Blackhorn 209 and the fury 250gr black tips, cci 209.mz primers.
Base for scope wasn’t loose, used loctite on screws
Scope was secure in the rings

Gonna throw the scope on an ar next time I get to a range and see if that’s the issue.

Also had nothing but problems with the breech plug no matter how much grease I use on the threads. Ended up having to get an 11mm deep socket in there with a ratchet to bust it loose after every range trip.

Overall not too impressed with it, hopefully it’s user error as this is my first mz with bullet to bore

 

[Verde]

Sorry to hear you are having issues with your Peregrine. I have not shot my Peregrine yet but I was thinking 110 gr x vol with the 250 gr fury black tip. I had issues sizing the bullets. I had them fitting nice at the muzzle, then free fall 15". Then it was too tight to go rest of way down. Knight told me to size it down another 10 thousandths and I did that. Dennis at Fury bullets said they would expand at ignition to engage the lands.
I hope you figure out what your issue is. I'm hoping its the scope.

 

[Verde]

I was talking Black Horn 209.

 

[Samg1707]

I was talking Black Horn 209.

I was going off of load data I had found on another site of a guy shooting some really incredible groups with his. I’ll try shaving some more off of the rounds as they may be too tight? So much to learn with this compared to my old knight. Hopefully it’s the scope but definetly going to drop the charge down to get on paper and start back from 0. Good luck with yours let me know how it goes

 

[Novashooter]

Update, I can’t get the pergerine to shoot worth a shit, ran out of time before ks muzzleloader to figure out exactly what the problem is, was using 150 gr by volume of Blackhorn 209 and the fury 250gr black tips, cci 209.mz primers.
Base for scope wasn’t loose, used loctite on screws
Scope was secure in the rings

Gonna throw the scope on an ar next time I get to a range and see if that’s the issue.

Also had nothing but problems with the breech plug no matter how much grease I use on the threads. Ended up having to get an 11mm deep socket in there with a ratchet to bust it loose after every range trip.

Overall not too impressed with it, hopefully it’s user error as this is my first mz with bullet to bore

Right off the bat, the glaring problem I see is you are using CCI 209MZ primers with blackhorn 209 which are very weak. You really need a strong primer with BH209, and there are only two recommended. The Federal 209A, and the CCI 209M. CCI 209M are completely different than CCI 209 or CCI 209 MZ.

I have no experience with the Peregrine, but 150gr volume of BH209 in a 40 caliber is a really, really strong load. That's over max on most 50 calibers. I'm guessing the Peregrine is built to handle such charges, but I have to wonder if that is really the best for good accuracy.

There's really nothing new under the sun. Back in the 1800's, target rifles were often 45 caliber, such as a Whitworth rifle, but 40 caliber and other oddball sizes existed. I think this shows a discrepancy on what target shooters want, and what hunters want. You are shooting a 250 grain bullet, which is kind of light even for 40 caliber. But that and high powder charges gets you high velocity. On the other hand there were the target rifles, again I'll pick on the Whitworth, which it's bullet for a 45 caliber was 530 grains, and most people found best accuracy in the 70-90 grain range with blackpowder, maybe 100, also depends on powder grade. 70 grains was the standard from what I've seen for military use. This was in the 1850's, and used somewhat by the confederates in civil war. Not that it matters, but the union army was using breech loading Sharps rifles at this time, although they used linen cartridges, and still used percussion cap ignition. These were 52 caliber, 50 gr powder.

That might sound like a bunch of babble, and it kind of is for your purposes. Despite the Sharps cartridge rifles being an obvious superiority in war, just a few years later the USA government went to the 45-70 brass cartridge. A 405gr bullet with 70gr of powder. In 1879, the government did thorough testing with the 45-70, and other cartridges, at extreme range, 2 miles. These were the Sandy Hook tests. The results of this test had them ditch the 405gr bullet for a 500 gr bullet as standard, still with 70 gr powder. Sound familiar? Even today, the guys competing long range, or really any range with 45-70's BPCR, they are all shooting 500-550 gr bullets.

I'm not saying you need to be shooting 400+ gr bullets. What I am saying is the Peregrine, and other fast twist, smaller bore muzzleloaders are not new ideas at all. What makes them shoot great has been tested in the past, and will still work today. I'm guessing you don't have any interest in shooting really long ranges, and more into a flatter trajectory for hunting, but don't discount the tried and true.

 

[OXN939]

I was going off of load data I had found on another site of a guy shooting some really incredible groups with his. I’ll try shaving some more off of the rounds as they may be too tight? So much to learn with this compared to my old knight. Hopefully it’s the scope but definetly going to drop the charge down to get on paper and start back from 0. Good luck with yours let me know how it goes

I'll echo the above... 150 grains by volume of BH209 is a redline load if it's even still on the gauge. I shoot 82.5 grains by volume in my whitetail setup.

If you're hunting whitetails in Kansas, I'd look at finding a CVA Optima and a pack of 250 grain Barnes T-MZs. That whole rig would cost less than the scope rings on some rifles and would probably meet the performance requirements of about 98% of hunters. While it's definitely possible to make muzzleloader hunting a rabbit hole, it doesn't need to be.

 

[Samg1707]

Right off the bat, the glaring problem I see is you are using CCI 209MZ primers with blackhorn 209 which are very weak. You really need a strong primer with BH209, and there are only two recommended. The Federal 209A, and the CCI 209M. CCI 209M are completely different than CCI 209 or CCI 209 MZ.

I have no experience with the Peregrine, but 150gr volume of BH209 in a 40 caliber is a really, really strong load. That's over max on most 50 calibers. I'm guessing the Peregrine is built to handle such charges, but I have to wonder if that is really the best for good accuracy.

There's really nothing new under the sun. Back in the 1800's, target rifles were often 45 caliber, such as a Whitworth rifle, but 40 caliber and other oddball sizes existed. I think this shows a discrepancy on what target shooters want, and what hunters want. You are shooting a 250 grain bullet, which is kind of light even for 40 caliber. But that and high powder charges gets you high velocity. On the other hand there were the target rifles, again I'll pick on the Whitworth, which it's bullet for a 45 caliber was 530 grains, and most people found best accuracy in the 70-90 grain range with blackpowder, maybe 100, also depends on powder grade. 70 grains was the standard from what I've seen for military use. This was in the 1850's, and used somewhat by the confederates in civil war. Not that it matters, but the union army was using breech loading Sharps rifles at this time, although they used linen cartridges, and still used percussion cap ignition. These were 52 caliber, 50 gr powder.

That might sound like a bunch of babble, and it kind of is for your purposes. Despite the Sharps cartridge rifles being an obvious superiority in war, just a few years later the USA government went to the 45-70 brass cartridge. A 405gr bullet with 70gr of powder. In 1879, the government did thorough testing with the 45-70, and other cartridges, at extreme range, 2 miles. These were the Sandy Hook tests. The results of this test had them ditch the 405gr bullet for a 500 gr bullet as standard, still with 70 gr powder. Sound familiar? Even today, the guys competing long range, or really any range with 45-70's BPCR, they are all shooting 500-550 gr bullets.

I'm not saying you need to be shooting 400+ gr bullets. What I am saying is the Peregrine, and other fast twist, smaller bore muzzleloaders are not new ideas at all. What makes them shoot great has been tested in the past, and will still work today. I'm guessing you don't have any interest in shooting really long ranges, and more into a flatter trajectory for hunting, but don't discount the tried and true.

Yeah I bought it for

Right off the bat, the glaring problem I see is you are using CCI 209MZ primers with blackhorn 209 which are very weak. You really need a strong primer with BH209, and there are only two recommended. The Federal 209A, and the CCI 209M. CCI 209M are completely different than CCI 209 or CCI 209 MZ.

I have no experience with the Peregrine, but 150gr volume of BH209 in a 40 caliber is a really, really strong load. That's over max on most 50 calibers. I'm guessing the Peregrine is built to handle such charges, but I have to wonder if that is really the best for good accuracy.

There's really nothing new under the sun. Back in the 1800's, target rifles were often 45 caliber, such as a Whitworth rifle, but 40 caliber and other oddball sizes existed. I think this shows a discrepancy on what target shooters want, and what hunters want. You are shooting a 250 grain bullet, which is kind of light even for 40 caliber. But that and high powder charges gets you high velocity. On the other hand there were the target rifles, again I'll pick on the Whitworth, which it's bullet for a 45 caliber was 530 grains, and most people found best accuracy in the 70-90 grain range with blackpowder, maybe 100, also depends on powder grade. 70 grains was the standard from what I've seen for military use. This was in the 1850's, and used somewhat by the confederates in civil war. Not that it matters, but the union army was using breech loading Sharps rifles at this time, although they used linen cartridges, and still used percussion cap ignition. These were 52 caliber, 50 gr powder.

That might sound like a bunch of babble, and it kind of is for your purposes. Despite the Sharps cartridge rifles being an obvious superiority in war, just a few years later the USA government went to the 45-70 brass cartridge. A 405gr bullet with 70gr of powder. In 1879, the government did thorough testing with the 45-70, and other cartridges, at extreme range, 2 miles. These were the Sandy Hook tests. The results of this test had them ditch the 405gr bullet for a 500 gr bullet as standard, still with 70 gr powder. Sound familiar? Even today, the guys competing long range, or really any range with 45-70's BPCR, they are all shooting 500-550 gr bullets.

I'm not saying you need to be shooting 400+ gr bullets. What I am saying is the Peregrine, and other fast twist, smaller bore muzzleloaders are not new ideas at all. What makes them shoot great has been tested in the past, and will still work today. I'm guessing you don't have any interest in shooting really long ranges, and more into a flatter trajectory for hunting, but don't discount the tried and true.

i have an old knight mk85 that’s been my go to for muzzleloader, wanted to try something new in the pergerine and it’s just totally new to me compared to what I’m used, whole new learning curve and I don’t have any buddies that are into black powder so I’m trying to learn as much as I can from forums and what not. Wanted to replace the 50 cal with something flatter out to distance but I’m definetly going to lower the charge of bh209. I’ll figure it out eventually I’m sure it’s just kind of a bummer when you expect the results others are experiencing and don’t get the same thing. Gonna stick with it tho as there’s just something magical about muzzleloader hunting. It might have over taken my love for archery

 

[Samg1707]

Yeah I bought it for

i have an old knight mk85 that’s been my go to for muzzleloader, wanted to try something new in the pergerine and it’s just totally new to me compared to what I’m used, whole new learning curve and I don’t have any buddies that are into black powder so I’m trying to learn as much as I can from forums and what not. Wanted to replace the 50 cal with something flatter out to distance but I’m definetly going to lower the charge of bh209. I’ll figure it out eventually I’m sure it’s just kind of a bummer when you expect the results others are experiencing and don’t get the same thing. Gonna stick with it tho as there’s just something magical about muzzleloader hunting. It might have over taken my love for archery

The pergeriene is rated to 160gr by volume of bh209, and even with 150 it thumps being such a light rifle. I appreciate the advice about the primers. I’ll go pick up so different ones when I get a chance, this whole bullet to bore mz thing I so new to me that there will be some growing pains with it. I’ll keep you fellas updated for when I lower the charge. Appreciate all of the help

 

[Novashooter]

There is a very real chance those weak CCI 209MZ primers are your cause due to inconsistent ignition. I hope it works out, the Peregrine should be a super accurate rifle.

 

[Samg1707]

There is a very real chance those weak CCI 209MZ primers are your cause due to inconsistent ignition. I hope it works out, the Peregrine should be a super accurate rifle.

Figured the cci mz primers would be good in a muzzleloader lol, the more you know tho. Thanks for all the help it’ll be a couple weeks till I can trouble shoot it again

 

[Novashooter]

Figured the cci mz primers would be good in a muzzleloader lol, the more you know tho. Thanks for all the help it’ll be a couple weeks till I can trouble shoot it again

Sometimes they are. Inline muzzleloaders in the 1800's originally used percussion caps. Tony Knight came out with the MK-85 in 1985 which was really the first commercial successful inline muzzleloader design like we think of them today. It too used percussion caps which worked fantastic with the blackpowder and Pyrodex. Later on when pellet powder came along it was found a percussion cap was kind of weak for good ignition, and that was really the start of using 209 shotgun primers for inlines. I'm not sure which one was the first to use them, but H&R Huntsman is one of the earliest I can recall. I'm sure Knight and TC had their versions too about the same time. Over time it was discovered a shotgun 209 is quite strong for the job of igniting blackpowder, pyrodex, and the newer 777, so weaker muzzleloader specific 209's came out, although I think they also do ok with pellet powders.

Hopefully that helps clear up the confusion a bit.

Anything works for blackpowder including flintlock, although shotgun 209s are overkill, the strong primers may actually reduce accuracy slightly.

Pyrodex/777 powder a percussion cap, ideally a magnum works good. Musket caps work good. Both shotgun and MZ 209s work. MZ 209 and rifle/pistol primers may work better than shotgun 209's.

Pelletized Pyrodex/777 both MZ and shotgun 209s should work. Percussion caps are probably too weak.

Blackhorn 209 only the strongest of shotgun 209 primers work. Federal 209A and CCI 209M are the recommended ones by first Western, and now Hodgdon.

 

[Verde]

Sam,
I sighted in my peregrine. 112 Gr/vol black horn 209 and Fury 250 Gr black tips. 209a primers.
Everything went fine. Was on the target at 40 yards. Made a few adjustments there and went to 100 yards. Was hitting 6 inches high at 100. Cranked it down to 2 1/2” high at 100 and stopped. All without swabbing the barrel.
I’m going to clean it and go shoot it again.
I’m hoping it hits the same with clean bore.
So far I’m happy with my Peregrine.

 

[Samg1707]

Update- scope was sent back to vortex on warranty and they found it had a poi shift on different magnification and under recoil so I got a new one. Hopefully this new scope isn’t a dud either

 

[hornclayton]

Update, I can’t get the pergerine to shoot worth a shit, ran out of time before ks muzzleloader to figure out exactly what the problem is, was using 150 gr by volume of Blackhorn 209 and the fury 250gr black tips, cci 209.mz primers.
Base for scope wasn’t loose, used loctite on screws
Scope was secure in the rings

Gonna throw the scope on an ar next time I get to a range and see if that’s the issue.

Also had nothing but problems with the breech plug no matter how much grease I use on the threads. Ended up having to get an 11mm deep socket in there with a ratchet to bust it loose after every range trip.

Overall not too impressed with it, hopefully it’s user error as this is my first mz with bullet to bore

use the tc jell breech plug lube not the molypaste style. Lighten the charge to 140gbv and get a muzzle break from arrowhead with folding rod and load funnel. fixes most issues. this thing is hard on scopes and kicks really hard without the brake.