Kenai River King Salmon - Circling the Drain

[SteelheadBum406]

No sane person disputes that wild Chinook salmon and Steelhead are becoming fewer and fewer across North America with each passing year. The most obvious solution to the problem of the constant dwindling wild Chinook/King salmon and Steelhead populations is to close the season until all problems are identified, fixed and a new management plan is developed. I know, I know, there is no way any of this will happen. The good old days of yesteryear are over, at least for a while anyway. Bummer.

 

[doc holiday13]

has anyone vetted prop83? I'm all for season limiting if it means improvement of the resource

 

[Marbles]

It is certainly true that when the commercial guys are out fish don't come back in the river in any numbers worthy of note, both Kenai and Kasilof, and as a subsistence fisherman one might as well pack up and go home.

It is disingenuous to imply that what happens with the red run over in Seward does not also apply on the Cook Inlet side. I pick up on a lot of motivated reasoning in your posts though, so it does not surprise me.

To clarify on my earlier post, I am not saying subsistence should take precedent over commercial. I'm just saying the commercial fleet stops a lot of fish from getting into the river. I have gone from pulling a fish out ever 5 minutes or less, to seeing no one on the beach catch a fish for 30 minutes straight with the only change being the commercial guys had put out.

I'm fine with reducing subsistence limits, seasons, and methods of take; so long as commercial and guiding see the same. I would like better enforcement with dip netting and dislike that I have never been checked. Alaska certainly has a wild west attitude and I have heard more than one person talk about illegal hunting and fishing practices like they think it is cool.

The 0.13 to 0.54 million fish caught in the Cook Inlet personal use fishery every year certainly has an impact, but commercial pulled out 1.9 million fish last year, and has averaged 3.1 million per year for the past 20.

 

[SteelheadBum406]

https://www.hatchmag.com/articles/c...ash-over-how-save-alaskan-king-salmon/7715856

 

[SteelheadBum406]

Basically, more of the same information as the above link. The issue is not going away anytime soon.

https://www.wrangellsentinel.com/st...t-alaska-king-salmon-as-endangered/12756.html

 

[AKBC]

has anyone vetted prop83? I'm all for season limiting if it means improvement of the resource

It is a mixed stock fishery with abundant red salmon and struggling king salmon. The commercial folks target red salmon and the commercial fishermen with the most potential to catch kings were completely shut down last year. Meanwhile, there was at least some sport (commercial guided and DIY) pressure on kings at the beginning of the season. The Board of Fish will consider Prop 83 (and a bunch of other proposals) and they will get lobbied hard by both sides of the fight. The commercial fishermen have lost most of their fishery over the years because the Board of Fish has reallocated significantly more of the red salmon to sport and personal use.

 

[doc holiday13]

It is a mixed stock fishery with abundant red salmon and struggling king salmon. The commercial folks target red salmon and the commercial fishermen with the most potential to catch kings were completely shut down last year. Meanwhile, there was at least some sport (commercial guided and DIY) pressure on kings at the beginning of the season. The Board of Fish will consider Prop 83 (and a bunch of other proposals) and they will get lobbied hard by both sides of the fight. The commercial fishermen have lost most of their fishery over the years because the Board of Fish has reallocated significantly more of the red salmon to sport and personal use.

I very much view this situation of salmon the same way i view east coast stripe bass/stripers/rock fish. Right now populations are low. Restrictions on catch are very high. I wanna say 1 fish a day and has to be over 24" or something like that. Stripers are a HUGE industry and this isn't the first time the season was severely limited. Save the resource

 

[WRO]

It is a mixed stock fishery with abundant red salmon and struggling king salmon. The commercial folks target red salmon and the commercial fishermen with the most potential to catch kings were completely shut down last year. Meanwhile, there was at least some sport (commercial guided and DIY) pressure on kings at the beginning of the season. The Board of Fish will consider Prop 83 (and a bunch of other proposals) and they will get lobbied hard by both sides of the fight. The commercial fishermen have lost most of their fishery over the years because the Board of Fish has reallocated significantly more of the red salmon to sport and personal use.

I am going to ask a question here that I have been wondering about for a while, why isn't cook inlet dedicated to sports fishermen/personal use instead of commercials? It feeds the majority of the rivers in the most populated areas of Alaska.

The Matsu streams all have low runs because they get hammered in the inlet in the name of stopping "overescapement".

 

[Overlandascent]

I grew up on the river a few decades ago. We used to catch (Release too) these big ones by the dozens a year. Now you can only look at them in pictures.

 

[WalterH]

The 2024 early and late run king salmon pre-season forecasts for the Kenai are out.

https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/fishing/pdfs/sport/byarea/southcentral/2024KenaiLRforecast.pdf

A few highlights:

"The 2024 forecast for large (>75 cm mideye-to-tail-fork-length [METF] or approximately >34 inches in total length) late-run Chinook salmon in the Kenai River is 13,639 fish with an 80% prediction interval (PI) of 8,366–22,233 fish (Table 1). This forecast is less than the optimum escapement goal range of 15,000 to 30,000 large fish, 67% less than the long-term (1986–2023) average estimated total run of approximately 41,700 large fish, and near the recent 5-year (20192023) estimated average total run of approximately 13,400 large fish (Table 2). If realized, the 2024 run would rank 5th lowest in the past 38 years and 4th lowest in the past 10 years (Table 2). "

 

[SteelheadBum406]

There are tons of information out there regarding chinook/king salmon fisheries and the fishing industry in general. As always, there are more questions than answers let alone workable solutions to somewhat satisfy the stakeholders.

Perhaps the only way (I didn't say popular because on this subject nobody is happy) to start solving the wild chinook/king salmon issue is to close (call it a pause) the season next year (2025) until the problem is solved. Then Congress should set up an economic fund managed by the State of Alaska to pay people and fishery businesses not to fish (I know, crazy talk. What is worse, some fish to try to enhance back to a sustainable population or no fish at all?). If we as a Nation can send hundreds of billions of dollars to Ukraine, Israel and some middle east countries to fight wars, we sure as hell can set up an economic fund for Americans who depend on wild salmon for their livelihoods. Never mind all the money spent on taking care of the people that have been coming through our southern border the past three years.

There are no easy answers or solutions to this very complicated issue. All the research by government agencies, lawsuits and laws/rules/regulations implemented by our political leaders have accomplished little to solve the problem of declining wild salmon and steelhead populations. We need to start somewhere, and the time is now.

https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/feature-story/whats-behind-chinook-and-chum-salmon-declines-alaska

https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=fishing.main

https://www.adn.com/business-econom...stry-economic-offers-some-surprising-numbers/

https://www.tu.org/magazine/conservation/barriers/dam-removal/free-the-eklutna-river/

 

[william schmaltz]

The commercial fishermen have lost most of their fishery over the years because the Board of Fish has reallocated significantly more of the red salmon to sport and personal use.

2023 UCI harvest was 3.1 million fish across all user groups. 2/3 of that was commercial harvest. Seems the allocation is certainly weighted.

The sport fleet is largely on the same page and more concerned with reallocating king salmon to reproduction than harvest by any group. Literally their stance is take it away from everyone. While the comm group is begging to just keep on fishing. Those anecdotes are indisputable. Tune into the public testimony during the next BOG meeting if you believe otherwise.

I remember clearly sitting on the banks with a group of kids completely uninterested in fishing an empty river the 3rd weekend of July. At the same time they were piling on comm EOs and commercial take was already 4x in-river numbers. I don’t think it’s too much to ask to be able to plan a couple weekends in late July to take the family fishing without having to worry about them piling on comm EOs to wall off the river. But I suppose, if we can keep these pesky kids from all growing up to be advocates for the river, we can really maximize that saltwater slaughter and sell these things and get that money from overseas buyers!

 

[WalterH]

There are tons of information out there regarding chinook/king salmon fisheries and the fishing industry in general. As always, there are more questions than answers let alone workable solutions to somewhat satisfy the stakeholders.

Perhaps the only way (I didn't say popular because on this subject nobody is happy) to start solving the wild chinook/king salmon issue is to close (call it a pause) the season next year (2025) until the problem is solved. Then Congress should set up an economic fund managed by the State of Alaska to pay people and fishery businesses not to fish (I know, crazy talk. What is worse, some fish to try to enhance back to a sustainable population or no fish at all?). If we as a Nation can send hundreds of billions of dollars to Ukraine, Israel and some middle east countries to fight wars, we sure as hell can set up an economic fund for Americans who depend on wild salmon for their livelihoods. Never mind all the money spent on taking care of the people that have been coming through our southern border the past three years.

There are no easy answers or solutions to this very complicated issue. All the research by government agencies, lawsuits and laws/rules/regulations implemented by our political leaders have accomplished little to solve the problem of declining wild salmon and steelhead populations. We need to start somewhere, and the time is now.

https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/feature-story/whats-behind-chinook-and-chum-salmon-declines-alaska

https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=fishing.main

https://www.adn.com/business-econom...stry-economic-offers-some-surprising-numbers/

https://www.tu.org/magazine/conservation/barriers/dam-removal/free-the-eklutna-river/

There is actually a bill in front of the legislature now to buy back some of the setnet permits in Cook Inlet

Cook Inlet setnet buyback; Salmon rehab bills before AK Legislature

CI setnetters would have option to sell back permits to the state: Rehab plan would restore depleted salmon stocks.

alaskafish.news

Alaska State Legislature

One single setnet site, the Salamatof site, is responsible for 70-80% of the ESSN king harvest. Hopefully if the program gets launched, the State can prioritize that site in the buy back program.

Two more days to get your comments in before the Feb 8 deadline.

Comments here:

BOF: Upper Cook Inlet Meeting Public Comments 2023

survey123.arcgis.com

 

[SteelheadBum406]

Cool video
https://flylordsmag.com/biggest-chi...il&utm_term=0_985ec1d746-de6511b3d1-348108923

 

[WalterH]

Those fish are descents of Columbia River chinook. Very interesting to see how hatchery transplants have been able to establish a self-sustaining population there. There aren't too many examples of that happening as hatchery bananas are notoriously bad at, well, living and reproducing.

The BOF in Alaska extended the comment period for until Feb 12 FYI.

 

[SteelheadBum406]

https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=fisheriesboard.main

All stakeholders need to take the time to voice their concerns and provide solutions to this very important issue. This is your opportunity to make a difference for wild salmon (especially Chinook/King salmon) and steelhead populations in Alaska.

Just go to the AK Department of Fish and Game/Board of Fisheries website for comments information or call them at (907) 465-4110 or write them at:
Alaska Department of Fish and Game
P.O. Box 115526
1255 W. 8th Street
Juneau, AK 99811-5526

This is still The United States of America (barely), and every American has the right to provide comments to all government representatives and employees on all government issues. If you don't get involved, then don't bitch about the outcome if it doesn't satisfy you.

 

[SteelheadBum406]

@WalterH, as you know, there used to be some absolute beasts (Chinooks and Steelhead) swimming up the Columbia River to the many tributaries in WA, OR & ID. It's a damn dirty shame what happened to the huge steelhead that migrated in and out of the North Fork of the Clearwater in Idaho. Dwarshak Dam. Never mind the prime elk winter habitat that is now under water. The entire Columbia River system is probably totally screwed as far as wild salmon and steelhead are concerned.

I'm no fan of hatchery fish (my view and I am not telling anyone to hate them) but, sadly, that may be all we have left if we don't figure out how to vastly improve our Chinook/King salmon populations.

Anyway, below is some information regarding Chinook salmon history in Argentina and Chile.

https://thefisheriesblog.com/2019/01/28/chinook-in-south-america/

https://www.researchgate.net/figure...n-Chile-and-Argentina-based-on_fig1_233788883

https://salmon-net.org/genetic-diversity-of-introduced-chinook-salmon-in-chile/

https://www.flyfisherman.com/editorial/targeting-chiles-chinook-salmon-on-a-fly/152134

 

[Catchfish]

Seems there are a lot of Kenai River folks here. How would you feel if for each set net permit which is allowed 3 nets per permit was allowed to fish with 3 dip nets during the season. This would allow these folks to at least recover the cost of running their business, and supporting their deckhands. They would be allowed to fish in the designated dipnet area.

Just a thought, it’s a selective fishery a lot more effort for the comm guys, longer hours and days but they could at least be allowed something instead of being closed for the entire season.

 

[SteelheadBum406]

Just a reminder, no matter what side of the declining wild Chinook/King salmon issue you support or are against, that every stakeholder/U.S. citizen needs to take a few minutes to voice their concerns, views and opinions to your elected officials and leaders of any business and conservation organization you may support. Standup, be a leader and make a positive difference. Thank you.

Who owns the fish??

https://www.nationalobserver.com/2024/01/04/news/salmon-disappear-battle-alaska-fishing-rights

Some folks blaming trawlers.

https://www.sportfishingmag.com/news/alaska-trawl-bycatch-killing-legendary-salmon-fishery/

https://www.ktoo.org/2021/04/22/com...ut-against-trawler-bycatch-of-chinook-salmon/

NOAA blames "Climate Change" (which in Totalitarian Marxist Globalist speak/thinking means YOU, the lower-class reader and your family and friends is to blame).

https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/west-coast/climate/extinction-risk-chinook-salmon-due-climate-change

Some folks want change.

https://www.fishalaskamagazine.com/sustainable-fisheries/

https://www.fishalaskamagazine.com/endangered-habitat/

https://www.fishalaskamagazine.com/eklutna-river-coming-home/

A snapshot in time: Looking back 10 years ago.

https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=wildlifenews.view_article&articles_id=667

 

[SteelheadBum406]

Are hatchery Pink /Humpback/Humpy salmon part of the declining population of Chinook/King salmon problem? I'm not saying Osprey is right (or wrong) as I know that every group has its hidden agenda, but it is worth considering. Who knows? Yes, no, maybe, kind of sort of, who cares??
https://www.ospreysteelhead.org/archives/107hatcherypinksalmon