JUST ONE HUNTER’S HUMBLE OPINION

D Lee

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
Jan 4, 2014
Messages
128
While you’re still young, believing you will live forever (as I did), I’m asking you to take moment and consider what this older gent has to say. I know what follows won't make me popular...I'll work on that.

Over the many decades - apart from being grateful for family memories and God's many blessings - hunting / shooting has always run a tight second. Closet friends; rifles; nature’s incredible weather and terrain: game hunted; campfire trash talk; good Guides and bad; disappointments and successes; the whole enchilada – those memories will not be soon forgotten. I know you can relate to that.

I grew up hunting groundhogs with .22 rimfires, graduating to a 222 Rem and 225 Win. WOW. My first deer rifle was a Marlin 336C in 35 Rem w/Remington 200 gr RN. While we were always tracking my friends 30-30 deer, mine fell where shot. As in straight down now. Keith was onto something. As was O’Connor too.

As the years passed too soon, I went through many rifles / cartridges. East and West, from the South to Alaska, I hunted Deer, Hogs, Elk and Black Bear all successfully. All spot and stalk. Get closer, make the first shot a good one. That was always very, very important. Which brings me here.

The following is offered respectfully. As time changes things, so have guns and gear advanced. Not that many moons ago, for many of us, 300 yards was a long shot. Today, we’re out to 1,000 and beyond, likely with some unfortunate results that go unreported. Meaning? Equipment can be purchased, skill cannot.

It now appears you can purchase a rifle scope that is not only a range-finder but will electronically elevate your cross-hairs to the accuracy needed for that yardage and the trigger pull. Simple and likely deadly, assuming the right load / bullet. Sight the game out yonder, close the bolt, look through the scope, pull the trigger, reach in your pack for your knives. And that, folks, IMHO, is turning “hunting” into a “science.” The killing may be there but the challenges of hunting? And this I promise, every bowhunter understands all this ever so clearly. It’s not just finding the animal, it’s the thrill of hunting the game, up close and personal. Less reliance on equipment and more on skill.

Longer range hunting of animals has its merits. No arguments there. Not for me to say what “long range hunting” means to you and I’m NOT. Rightfully, enjoy the rewards. However, the more reliance there is on science and equipment, the more is lost on the absolute thrill of getting closer and ensuring an ethical kill. Something we owe every animal hunted, be it a trophy or simply meat for the table. Hunters have obligations that go beyond safety.

Again, I'm not saying how you personally should hunt. None of my business. I am saying, it seems many of yesterday’s truly exciting "hunting" challenges are loudly being replaced by technology. I earned, bought and paid for the few good rifles in my safe I’m proud to own. Good gear that makes me a better hunter and yes, I know and appreciate that. That said, just me personally, I’ll take the “get closer” approach to all my hunting, 7/365. Sure would like to see that excitement passed down to our upcoming generation of hunters. Let’s not lose that.

Be safe ya’ll and thanks for sharing some time with me.
 
As a new bow hunter and as a “long range hero” the thrill and effort has been the same.

I will say that “long range” hunting is the only reasonable way to hunt some animals in some places. I am not going to pass up opportunities.

Ultimately, a rifle is a technology, like a compound bow. Your sentiment has been echoed by each generation that feels like something is lost.

Trust that every person I have hunted with has likely felt the same about hunting as you do as you look back.
 
Absolutely true Tanner by many definitions...................but it's not all a science. :) Which is what I was referring to. The camaraderie, the endless challenges, thoughts and emotions and the list goes on.
 
Absolutely true Tanner by many definitions...................but it's not all a science. :) Which is what I was referring to. The camaraderie, the endless challenges, thoughts and emotions and the list goes on.
I think you are misreading the effect of long range on hunting.

Thankfully, my long range skills helped me meet new guys, and I helped one of them kill his first elk at 1000 with my rifle. They got me into archery and they helped me kill a mule deer, elk and javelina. I have hunted and eaten tags with them. We talk all the time. And, I got to be there when another dude got his first elk at 200 yards.

Dudes and hunting hasn’t changed… it’s still hard and we eat lots of tags. But, I wish there were still giant herds of deer like the good old days.
 
Hard to argue against it. At the same time, its hard to argue for it from inside a glass house. Can anyone point to the specific technology where it crossed “the line” where hunting became science? Was it electronic scopes or
Laser rangefinders? Or was it telescopic sights in general? Or cartridge guns? Or rifling? Or is gps technology and satellite imagery a bigger technology crutch?

Im open to the idea, just need a hand identifying which technologies still involve hunting, and which are pure science. On the surface it seems pretty subjective, enough that I have a hard time lamenting what electronic scopes have done to hunting without including a hundred other technologies, some of which have been around for many decades and are heavily used by even self-professed old guys. Im inclined to think hunting is what you make of it, and has been for a long time. It seems the OP agrees, if Im correctly interpreting the post. “I earned, bought and paid for the few good rifles in my safe I’m proud to own. Good gear that makes me a better hunter and yes, I know and appreciate that. That said, just me personally, I’ll take the “get closer” approach to all my hunting, 7/365.” To me, that says a lot more about the hunter than it does about the equipment.
 
While we were always tracking my friends 30-30 deer

the more reliance there is on science and equipment, the more is lost on the absolute thrill of getting closer and ensuring an ethical kill.

And therein lies the crux of the debate. Getting closer doesn’t always ensure a more ethical kill. I’ve taken and seen more quick and rushed shots up close than I have at further distances. The distance isn’t the issue, it’s the mindfulness to only pull the trigger when you should. There’s something to be said about the thrill of stalking close, but as far as ethics with modern tech… I’d take the supported cross canyon shot with more time watching the animal than getting in close and making do with a compromised position.
 
Long range shooting is simply a piece of the repertoire that you can choose to equip yourself with, or not.

I have no overwhelming desire to shoot animals at 500-800 yards. But if I’m using my time away from my job, and from my family, then I’m damn sure going to equip myself with that skill so the opportunities don’t pass me by. I’d guess 95% of guys with long range capabilities fall into the same line of thinking. I’m not sure why it has to get so convoluted.

Tanner
 
If long range hunting is the only way to hunt some animals how were animals killed before all the new tech came along. I know people that have spent THOUSANDS on rifles and still wound animals that run off and suffer for no reason other than ego I know this is going to cause a lot of grief. If it makes you moist have at it
 
Long range shooting is simply a piece of the repertoire that you can choose to equip yourself with, or not.

I have no overwhelming desire to shoot animals at 500-800 yards. But if I’m using my time away from my job, and from my family, then I’m damn sure going to equip myself with that skill so the opportunities don’t pass me by. I’d guess 95% of guys with long range capabilities fall into the same line of thinking. I’m not sure why it has to get so convoluted.

Tanner
Exactly. I was after a buck this last year. I worked around on it. Before I could get into close range another hunter spooked other deer which then spooked the buck. It ended up running by me at 400 yards into cover. It reappeared in a small opening at 589 yards. As much as I would rather shoot them at 200 I was glad I was able to shoot further.
 
OP here.....

Nice thread. All being respectful. Valuable input. Appreciated. FWIW, I agree with you.

Like Tanner said, after mucho invested in a hunt, be prepared and don't pass up the (sensible) LR opportunity. I wouldn't pass it up either.

Maybe what irks me is the individual who invests $6K on a custom including all the expensive glass (scope / range finder / binoculars), believing his equipment has him now prepared to make the true LR shot. When the reality is, equipment will never make up for lack of skill. One cannot buy skill.

Likely a whole new thread...already debated a hundred times? Sorry about my short rant. And a quick hats off to this forum which allows us to exchange our thoughts.

It's Tuesday, 2025 and I'm grateful for my hunts coming up. I know you are too. Keep us posted.

Cheers everyone. :)
 
While you’re still young, believing you will live forever (as I did), I’m asking you to take moment and consider what this older gent has to say. I know what follows won't make me popular...I'll work on that.

Over the many decades - apart from being grateful for family memories and God's many blessings - hunting / shooting has always run a tight second. Closet friends; rifles; nature’s incredible weather and terrain: game hunted; campfire trash talk; good Guides and bad; disappointments and successes; the whole enchilada – those memories will not be soon forgotten. I know you can relate to that.

I grew up hunting groundhogs with .22 rimfires, graduating to a 222 Rem and 225 Win. WOW. My first deer rifle was a Marlin 336C in 35 Rem w/Remington 200 gr RN. While we were always tracking my friends 30-30 deer, mine fell where shot. As in straight down now. Keith was onto something. As was O’Connor too.

As the years passed too soon, I went through many rifles / cartridges. East and West, from the South to Alaska, I hunted Deer, Hogs, Elk and Black Bear all successfully. All spot and stalk. Get closer, make the first shot a good one. That was always very, very important. Which brings me here.

The following is offered respectfully. As time changes things, so have guns and gear advanced. Not that many moons ago, for many of us, 300 yards was a long shot. Today, we’re out to 1,000 and beyond, likely with some unfortunate results that go unreported. Meaning? Equipment can be purchased, skill cannot.

It now appears you can purchase a rifle scope that is not only a range-finder but will electronically elevate your cross-hairs to the accuracy needed for that yardage and the trigger pull. Simple and likely deadly, assuming the right load / bullet. Sight the game out yonder, close the bolt, look through the scope, pull the trigger, reach in your pack for your knives. And that, folks, IMHO, is turning “hunting” into a “science.” The killing may be there but the challenges of hunting? And this I promise, every bowhunter understands all this ever so clearly. It’s not just finding the animal, it’s the thrill of hunting the game, up close and personal. Less reliance on equipment and more on skill.

Longer range hunting of animals has its merits. No arguments there. Not for me to say what “long range hunting” means to you and I’m NOT. Rightfully, enjoy the rewards. However, the more reliance there is on science and equipment, the more is lost on the absolute thrill of getting closer and ensuring an ethical kill. Something we owe every animal hunted, be it a trophy or simply meat for the table. Hunters have obligations that go beyond safety.

Again, I'm not saying how you personally should hunt. None of my business. I am saying, it seems many of yesterday’s truly exciting "hunting" challenges are loudly being replaced by technology. I earned, bought and paid for the few good rifles in my safe I’m proud to own. Good gear that makes me a better hunter and yes, I know and appreciate that. That said, just me personally, I’ll take the “get closer” approach to all my hunting, 7/365. Sure would like to see that excitement passed down to our upcoming generation of hunters. Let’s not lose that.

Be safe ya’ll and thanks for sharing some time with me.
I agree. I think we have to put a limit on the tech. I don’t know where that limit should be and it’s been argued many times. But I’m with you. Woodsmanship and skills are declining while tech is increasing. And I believe more tech makes it a harder challenge to maintain quality hunting.
 
OP here.....

Nice thread. All being respectful. Valuable input. Appreciated. FWIW, I agree with you.

Like Tanner said, after mucho invested in a hunt, be prepared and don't pass up the (sensible) LR opportunity. I wouldn't pass it up either.

Maybe what irks me is the individual who invests $6K on a custom including all the expensive glass (scope / range finder / binoculars), believing his equipment has him now prepared to make the true LR shot. When the reality is, equipment will never make up for lack of skill. One cannot buy skill.

Likely a whole new thread...already debated a hundred times? Sorry about my short rant. And a quick hats off to this forum which allows us to exchange our thoughts.

It's Tuesday, 2025 and I'm grateful for my hunts coming up. I know you are too. Keep us posted.

Cheers everyone. :)
You can apply this in other ways….. I remember watching lots of guys with new bow/arrow combos in hand the day before archery season began……from the 80’s to present. Unfortunately, I believe there will always be some that don’t/wont hone the skills needed to make good, accurate ethical shots. I think one of the biggest technological changes to hunting (in my mind) is this right here….the internet and the enormous amount of information that has been divulged. When I was a kid starting hunting back in the late 70’s, none of this existed. You learned skills and secret spots from dads, friends…or just by exploring and a lot of trail and error. A new hunter today has an enormous amount of information concerning how to’s, where to……that never existed until fairly recently. Maybe so much information that it becomes too overwhelming at times.
 
and hurray to the guys who aren't as skilled at closing time and the animals win some, wouldn't be called hunting if it were just killing, the ratio of closers to those who give the animals the best odds likely won't change, luckily most try to learn from what they didn't know yet as they go and try to improve their skills as the drive to fill tags overcomes most things, we all can't set out in the beginning and be reliable closers, and lots more goes into it before the shot opportunity comes than anything else

for those who don't work on improving their skills just add wins to the animals and to those who do constantly try to improve their game, we need those guys too ;)
 
I've got podium finishes in NRLH, and all the gear to boot. But I still have yet to kill an elk for about 5 years now :ROFLMAO:

Lotta good it's done me haha! Can't shoot what you can't find.
 
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