Joe Rogan podcast: CWD

[Takem]

The following is a link to an article Ted Nugent wrote. Read it for yourself. Pretty easy to see what he means.

Ted Nugent: Irrational CWD Fears Are Hurting the Hunting Tradition - Deer & Deer Hunting | Whitetail Deer Hunting Tips

Thanks for sharing this. What an idiot. I agree that we'd be much better off as a group if he just went away. I don't listen to Joe's podcast but I have a lot of respect for his exposing so many people to hunting discussions but that's poor guest selection. I hope he either corrected Ted or will do so in the near future.

 

[Takem]

Haven't listened to this one yet, but there was a very good Meateater podcast on it last year. My opinion: Not a hoax, definitely an issue to watch. Let's be honest, even if you like the guy, you have to admit Nugent is a wack job in a lot of ways...

Ep. 070: Chronic Wasting Disease – MeatEater

This was a good podcast. Scary stuff. We haven't been able to bring brain or spinal cord from out of state to CA for a while and this give an explanation as to why. It stays in the ground and transmittable for years.

 

[Johnboy]

The following is a link to an article Ted Nugent wrote. Read it for yourself. Pretty easy to see what he means.

Ted Nugent: Irrational CWD Fears Are Hurting the Hunting Tradition - Deer & Deer Hunting | Whitetail Deer Hunting Tips

I have no opinions on this matter, but in fairness to Ted, I don't think he meant that CWD has never killed a deer. Here are some quotes from the article...

CWD doesn’t pose a threat to deer.

Since CWD has never hurt wildlife in the big picture...

In the broader context, I think he was saying that CWD does not threaten the existence of deer. In other words, it may kill some deer, but the herd overall remains healthy in the presence of CWD, while other diseases are a genuine threat.

That's how I read it, anyway.

 

[PantherCity]

Now that Razor Dobbs... there's a guy that's got it all figured out!!

Preach brother! Razor Dobbs 4 lyfe

 

[Crippledsledge64]

I'm not overly concerned about hunting in CWD areas but it is some nasty stuff. Any prion disease, mad cow disease, CWD, scrapie in sheep, or creutzfeldt-jakob disease are all awful stuff. Worst part is there's nothing to kill, it's not living its a protein that causes a domino effect which is why it can stay in the soil or on plants for so long. Chances of it spreading to a human are pretty low but I don't think I could eat any animal and enjoy it if I knew it had CWD. I next to the CWD management zone in Michigan and their pulling out all the stops for this stuff.

As for Ted, I think he means well but I wonder what Fred Bear would have to say about some of his comments over the years.

 

[1shotgear]

Hopefully this hasn't been posted yet. But did any of y'all listen to Joe's recent podcast with Doug Duren and Bryan Richards about Chronic wasting disease? Was plenty of jabs at Ted Nugent who said that CWD was a hoax. These guys were making a huge deal out of CWD, but I've never heard of anyone having issues with the disease. I wasn't super impressed with their presentation, but I have yet to seen any deer affected with the disease. Have any of you guys been effected by CWD, or do you believe it's not that big of a deal?

This is a huge problem in eastern Colorado as well as Nebraska and Kansas. Like a few comments below if you harvest a deer in select county's it is mandatory to take the deer in to get checked.

 

[7Bartman]

Prion like diseases are certainly scary. As some others have said there isn't evidence of zoonotic transmission to humans. The human PRP (prion) protein differs by a few critical amino acids from that of cervids. This is likely what is preventing the jump. However, it seems like each species has it's own prion like diseases.
There are also genetic prion diseases in humans, fortunately these are quite rare. I'm hoping for better diagnostics in the future and hoping technologies like CRISPR or zinc finger nucleases can become viable therapeutic options for these "protein-folding" diseases.
As for transmission to man, I've started to avoid cutting into CSF/CNS even though I'll have to forgo venison chops which are my favorite.
I listened to most of the podcast and surprisingly found it boring compared to some of the other JRE podcasts that I listen to.

 

[LostArra]

The worst take from this hysteria is no longer keeping bone-in neck roasts. I love that cut and at my age I still might eat it.

There is so much unknown right now with CWD. The experts don't have answers. I've talked to the G&F biologists. They sound like politicians. Never a straight answer. Is meat a vector of transmission? It's obviously not reliable for testing.
This is similar to the early 80's and HIV. Everyone was going to die from playing basketball with a positive person or riding on the same airplane. Dentists wearing hazmat suits.
I'm not downplaying anything but no one really knows the ramifications of a positive or negative test from an apparently healthy deer's lymph nodes. Definitely not Joe Rogan or Ted Nugent but I do respect Rogan for discussing the issue.

 

[wind gypsy]

I have no opinions on this matter, but in fairness to Ted, I don't think he meant that CWD has never killed a deer. Here are some quotes from the article...





In the broader context, I think he was saying that CWD does not threaten the existence of deer. In other words, it may kill some deer, but the herd overall remains healthy in the presence of CWD, while other diseases are a genuine threat.

That's how I read it, anyway.

I didn't read it but saying CWD is not a threat to deer or wildlife is more than illogical!

 

[timekiller13]

I didn't read it but saying CWD is not a threat to deer or wildlife is more than illogical!

If you didn't read it then how do you know what he said? He didn't say it wasn't a threat. He said CWD is not a threat to the overall existence of these animals. Yes, some will die from CWD, but he is saying it will not completely wipe deer, elk and moose off the face of the earth.

While I found the podcast interesting and informative, I fear media coverage like this is promoting fear mongering over something that isn't that big of a deal.

 

[voyageurpursuits]

If you didn't read it then how do you know what he said? He didn't say it wasn't a threat. He said CWD is not a threat to the overall existence of these animals. Yes, some will die from CWD, but he is saying it will not completely wipe deer, elk and moose off the face of the earth.

While I found the podcast interesting and informative, I fear media coverage like this is promoting fear mongering over something that isn't that big of a deal.

Do you or would you currently eat deer from a CWD area? Do you like seeing bucks over two years old?

It's human activities that spread CWD from one state to another. Unless we want all of NA to be a "CWD area", we need to act right now to prevent that spread.

Ted's statement about it not being an existential threat to cervids is true, but it's also an intentional misdirection from the issue. Nobody is worried about whitetail deer going extinct.

 

[backcountry_hunter]

Do you or would you currently eat deer from a CWD area? Do you like seeing bucks over two years old?

It's human activities that spread CWD from one state to another. Unless we want all of NA to be a "CWD area", we need to act right now to prevent that spread.

Ted's statement about it not being an existential threat to cervids is true, but it's also an intentional misdirection from the issue. Nobody is worried about whitetail deer going extinct.

I hunt deer & elk in, and consume deer & elk from CWD areas. Almost the entire driftless zone has positve CWD hits, large portions of Nebraska and Kansas, etc.... and yet despite CWD, despite EHD, despite everything else our herds are healthier than they've ever been. CWD has been around since the 60's.... it's conceivable that thousands of animals that were CWD positive have been consumed since it's finding with not one single health issue linking CWD to humans. That is pretty convincing.

I don't particularly care for Nugent and/or his tactics and loud mouth. But I tend to side with him on this issue. Is it a hoax? Absolutely not... it kills deer, there's no denying it. But is it worth the fear mongering, states hiring sharp shooters and having special eradication hunts? Boy I don't know. Disease in animal herds is nothing new... it's been going on since virtually the beginning of time. It's the reason we started vaccinating livestock. In my opinion this is one of the risks to eating "natural and organic" meat is that it hasn't been treated for common diseases found within a specie. 100 years from now it will be something else, and then something else and..... the perpetual cycle will continue...

 

[Mike7]

I am no prion expert, but I would never knowingly eat mammalian brain, spinal cord, eyes, bone marrow, or lymph nodes in potentially infected animals, and would be very careful butchering around those areas.

Considering that these diseases are untreatable and 100% fatal, and that ingestion is a known poor method of transmission compared to direct exposure into a cut for instance, having few infections from ingestion relative to the amount of potentially infected animals consumed does not mean that you are completely safe.

Perhaps I am overly conservative, but not even considering the prion discussion, I have never eaten any portions of anterior neck meat where I could potentially be getting paratracheal and retropharyngeal lymph nodes and thyroid gland. After all, consuming thyroid gland in hamburger can cause thyrotoxicosis.

 

[SoDaky]

Where's the beef?
Think about this critically.

 

[LostArra]

I have never eaten any portions of anterior neck meat where I could potentially be getting paratracheal and retropharyngeal lymph nodes and thyroid gland. After all, consuming thyroid gland in hamburger can cause thyrotoxicosis.[/QUOTE


A properly prepared bone-in neck roast has none of that tissue.

Do you have a source describing transmission by direct contact from a cut? I thought all mad cow disease (BSE) and it's CJD variant in humans was from ingestion of contaminated meat from affected animals.

The US seems to be disease free in cattle. So if walking up the slaughter ramp is a reliable screening method maybe we just don't shoot stumbling deer or elk.

 

[Chesapeake173]

Let’s not forget that Ted had a multi million dollar high fence facility in Michigan (one of the most recent states to discover CWD). He’s spouting this nonsense because of the very high probability that high fence facilities contribute to the problems with wild deer and CWD. He has some significant skin in the game.


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[williammunny]

I have never eaten any portions of anterior neck meat where I could potentially be getting paratracheal and retropharyngeal lymph nodes and thyroid gland. After all, consuming thyroid gland in hamburger can cause thyrotoxicosis.[/QUOTE


A properly prepared bone-in neck roast has none of that tissue.

Do you have a source describing transmission by direct contact from a cut? I thought all mad cow disease (BSE) and it's CJD variant in humans was from ingestion of contaminated meat from affected animals.

The US seems to be disease free in cattle. So if walking up the slaughter ramp is a reliable screening method maybe we just don't shoot stumbling deer or elk.

My understanding is that these diseases are transmitted through ingestion of central nervous system tissue. This would be brain and spinal cord. This is why I do not enter the cns tissues while butchering. If I take the skull/cape I do it at the end, preferably with a hacksaw that will never be used to do any other processing but that. I learned about prions when I was in medical school 10 years ago and that was enough to keep me out of the spinal canal.

I am not sure how the testing for cwd is done since some states such as Wyoming ask for a blood sample to be collected. I assume that they are not actually looking for prions in the blood, but instead looking for an immune response (antibody) indicating exposure. However I don't know for sure so don't quote me!

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[Mike7]

I have never eaten any portions of anterior neck meat where I could potentially be getting paratracheal and retropharyngeal lymph nodes and thyroid gland. After all, consuming thyroid gland in hamburger can cause thyrotoxicosis.[/QUOTE


A properly prepared bone-in neck roast has none of that tissue.

Do you have a source describing transmission by direct contact from a cut? I thought all mad cow disease (BSE) and it's CJD variant in humans was from ingestion of contaminated meat from affected animals.

The US seems to be disease free in cattle. So if walking up the slaughter ramp is a reliable screening method maybe we just don't shoot stumbling deer or elk.

Apparently one of the tissues that may be a pathway also for peripheral innoculation getting to the CNS, is not only lymph nodes, but also sympathetic neural ganglia which run along the anterior spine. I am not a butcher, but know a little anatomy, and just personally don't feel comfortable enough I guess to avoid split hairs dissecting the neck & thorax in these regions in order to avoid these tissues. But to each his own.

Apparently, a whole lot of people ate "mad cow" infected meat, with relatively few identified related illnesses, but maybe some others were actually infected orally, though only developed subclinical aymptomatic disease/infections?...otherwise the oral transmission rate had to be very low I would think.

Here is one example of what I think you are asking about:

Human prion diseases: surgical lessons learned from iatrogenic prion transmission

 

[cnelk]

Like I mentioned earlier in this thread, these guys yapping about CWD should really go to the knowledgeable people at CSU.

Chronic wasting disease linked to Fort Collins for 50 years

 

[ClearCreek]

I am not sure how the testing for cwd is done since some states such as Wyoming ask for a blood sample to be collected. I assume that they are not actually looking for prions in the blood, but instead looking for an immune response (antibody) indicating exposure. However I don't know for sure so don't quote me!

The blood samples that the Wyoming Game and Fish ask for or collect are not for CWD testing. Most likely those blood samples are for testing of other diseases (brucellosis in elk for one) or for research purposes.

They collect the retropharyngeal lymph nodes from deer, elk and moose to test for CWD.

ClearCreek