I've got 20 acres in upstate ny, what would you suggest to improve it?

[skmartin]

My suggestion: move the 20 acres out of the state of NY.

Ha! Yeah, I grew up out west and still do most of my hunting out there. Trying to figure out this whitetail gig and just wanted someplace where I don't have to worry about other people messing things up. 20 is all we could afford for now, so I'm trying to make the most of what we have!

 

[ddd-shooter]

Check out growing deer tv on YouTube
He does some property evaluations similar to yours and has a wealth of info

 

[omicron1792]

So

There is no way to have bucks “hang out” on your property with 20 acres and ag all around. That is ok.

You want to create safe cover and something for them to munch on when they pass from one ag field to the next.

Think conifers. Mast producing trees. Tall grasses and shrubs.

 

[MallardSX2]

Plant as much dense cover as possible and don’t step foot on the property until the later in the season. Plant 4 acres of purple top turnips on the eastern side of the property. Leave the rest in bedding with 0 intrusion.

Come in from north and Hunt on west winds only.

It’s your only hope from my perspective.

 

[MRC]

I’m in Ohio and I’ve planted purple top turnips on two different locations a couple of years and the deer don’t eat them. They do eat some of the tops. I know they love them some places but not everywhere. They eat the ladino clover all fall and winter. With only 20 acres I would want lots of cover and a small clover spot that I can shoot most of with a bow. The majority of a whitetails diet is browse and they like to be able to snack where they sleep. With that small piece of property I wouldn’t do more than a quarter acre food plot. Make a few does comfortable and every buck around will know about them.

 

[gjs4]

I am just west of you and deer habitat nut.

First and foremost is security/safety. Especially with 20ac. You need screening, whether an annual plant, perennial grasses or going the tree route. Access should be along property lines and do not undervalue where you park and how you loudly you engage.

The DEC trees are for dreamers. Have planted thousands. Attrition is a given. Trees in our area can become bedding and also will leave the great screening stage at some pt.

You can try to compartmentalize the place, a couple small clover plots in an attempt for a few doe groups. the idea youll house all the deer you want and need to hunt is not likely a reality. Create some interior edges. Dont worry about bedding pockets or any of the cool stuff these habitat guys rock on YT. There are some local consultants. Personally.....just say no. DIY. Make it for the deer and youll figure the rest out. Stay out of the interior.

Browse is key. Dogwood does well up here. Aspen. Elm, do okay when young, pokeweed, brambles/berry bushes or the ragweed and golden rod regen are all good. Dont worry about fruit trees .....a few pears if anything.

Couple thoughts. If the adjacent ag fields are cut in October, I am assuming they're planting a cover crop, correct?

 

[GotDraw?]

FWIW- I would never grow cedars if planning for apples due to cedar-apple rust cycle. Crab Apples may be more tolerant, but you will have fits with any regular apples if you have cedars nearby. Cut them all down if you plan on apples.

Turn your land into the safe zone that all the bucks head to from the surrounding properties.. plant late dropping acorn trees like Shumard Oak and late dropping pears to keep the bucks around. Convert your land from a large field into a lot of dense cover, like chickasaw plum thickets, interspersed with smaller, oddly shaped food plots w/o long sight planes so the bucks feel safe there. If you turn it into one large food plot, you'll have a lot of does... but the bucks only at night and probably not the big bucks. Be sure to plant some brassica plots so you'll have Oct/Nov plots that outlast your clover/chicory ground cover. Deer slayed my purple top turnip greens once they decided it was time to eat them, I had a 1/2ac plot of those and the greens all disappeared in 2 weeks and then they ate the turnips all winter. Create a super a couple super-dense 2ac areas you NEVER go in for total safe zones.

Plan to create grassy/clover access pathways into your property so you can quietly sneak into stands in key areas w/o making any noise, no matter the wind direction. Stay the hell out of your property unless you are hunting it and don't over hunt it once you have it matured. Consider NOT hunting in the morning because you will inevitably bust out bucks you don't see and they may not come back. Get on stand around noon and hunt until evening.

Consider creating some small roads on the property that a 4 wheeler or small truck or tractor can use once it is all grown over. That way, if you are on a stand with darkness approaching AND have deer that you cannot shoot, you can call a family member to idle down that path on the tractor to lightly push the deer so you can escape w/o busting them. The deer will not be spooked badly by a vehicle, but a smart buck might not come back if he figures out where your stand it.

USE planting tubes for your saplings, they will protect them and you'll see phenomenal growth in the early years.

JL

 

[MRC]

My clover lasts thru Oct/Nov. Clover also can grow for many seasons. Two of my plots are six years old. Here’s some pictures from Dec/Jan. Clover does not go away after a frost like some people say.

 

[menhaden_man]

Check with your local forestry dept - I get young persimmon and white oak trees for about $1 each. I've probably planted about 75 of them on two properties over the last two years. Will be a little while but once those persimmons get rolling my property will be like a crackhouse for whitetail and bears.

 

[MRC]

Red and white oak trees take 25 to 30 years to start producing. Then they only produce a good crop only 1 out of every three or four years. Sawtooth oak can start producing in 5 or 6 years but drop their acorns in Sept. and be gone by Oct. Red and white oaks don’t reach peak production until 50 years old. Let the cover grow naturally and adjust with a chainsaw. Deer love maple leaves and buds. If you have maples that start to get big just hinge cut them and they will keep growing and the deer will browse the tops.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

I would plant red oaks and apples along the edges and in clusters. Create blackberry hedges for all your fence lines. Put paths to your stands around the perimeter. Use that as a walking path every day morning and evening. Let some willows or hemlocks grow up along the creeks.

 

[skmartin]

Plant as much dense cover as possible and don’t step foot on the property until the later in the season. Plant 4 acres of purple top turnips on the eastern side of the property. Leave the rest in bedding with 0 intrusion.

Come in from north and Hunt on west winds only.

It’s your only hope from my perspective.

Thanks for the specific recommendations. This is exactly the kind of help I was hoping for!

 

[skmartin]

I am just west of you and deer habitat nut.

First and foremost is security/safety. Especially with 20ac. You need screening, whether an annual plant, perennial grasses or going the tree route. Access should be along property lines and do not undervalue where you park and how you loudly you engage.

The DEC trees are for dreamers. Have planted thousands. Attrition is a given. Trees in our area can become bedding and also will leave the great screening stage at some pt.

You can try to compartmentalize the place, a couple small clover plots in an attempt for a few doe groups. the idea youll house all the deer you want and need to hunt is not likely a reality. Create some interior edges. Dont worry about bedding pockets or any of the cool stuff these habitat guys rock on YT. There are some local consultants. Personally.....just say no. DIY. Make it for the deer and youll figure the rest out. Stay out of the interior.

Browse is key. Dogwood does well up here. Aspen. Elm, do okay when young, pokeweed, brambles/berry bushes or the ragweed and golden rod regen are all good. Dont worry about fruit trees .....a few pears if anything.

Couple thoughts. If the adjacent ag fields are cut in October, I am assuming they're planting a cover crop, correct?

Usually yes. Last year there was some kind of winter wheat that they just sprayed about a week ago. I think that will be planted in soybeans this year, with a strip of corn along the west side of the property.

 

[skmartin]

FWIW- I would never grow cedars if planning for apples due to cedar-apple rust cycle. Crab Apples may be more tolerant, but you will have fits with any regular apples if you have cedars nearby. Cut them all down if you plan on apples.

Turn your land into the safe zone that all the bucks head to from the surrounding properties.. plant late dropping acorn trees like Shumard Oak and late dropping pears to keep the bucks around. Convert your land from a large field into a lot of dense cover, like chickasaw plum thickets, interspersed with smaller, oddly shaped food plots w/o long sight planes so the bucks feel safe there. If you turn it into one large food plot, you'll have a lot of does... but the bucks only at night and probably not the big bucks. Be sure to plant some brassica plots so you'll have Oct/Nov plots that outlast your clover/chicory ground cover. Deer slayed my purple top turnip greens once they decided it was time to eat them, I had a 1/2ac plot of those and the greens all disappeared in 2 weeks and then they ate the turnips all winter. Create a super a couple super-dense 2ac areas you NEVER go in for total safe zones.

Plan to create grassy/clover access pathways into your property so you can quietly sneak into stands in key areas w/o making any noise, no matter the wind direction. Stay the hell out of your property unless you are hunting it and don't over hunt it once you have it matured. Consider NOT hunting in the morning because you will inevitably bust out bucks you don't see and they may not come back. Get on stand around noon and hunt until evening.

Consider creating some small roads on the property that a 4 wheeler or small truck or tractor can use once it is all grown over. That way, if you are on a stand with darkness approaching AND have deer that you cannot shoot, you can call a family member to idle down that path on the tractor to lightly push the deer so you can escape w/o busting them. The deer will not be spooked badly by a vehicle, but a smart buck might not come back if he figures out where your stand it.

USE planting tubes for your saplings, they will protect them and you'll see phenomenal growth in the early years.

JL

Awesome info, thank you!

 

[ihookem]

I bought 4 ac.parcel of land and left 2 1/2 ac. in the back for rabbits and deer. I did a lot of things wrong . I planted about 800 hybrid poplarsin 2007 , not for deer but for wood to burn. It was a mistake . However, it made for a very food seed bed with so many big leaves and twings.. When they were about 10 yrs old I started cutting them down . At first you could see across the 1 ac. cause hybrid poplars suck up so much nitrogen that nothing else grows. However, when I cut 1/4 of them down, I was amazed at how the red dogwood , high grass and maples stared coming up. The deer followed . Now, 17 yrs. after planting , most are dead but there is brush all over . You can hardly walk back there. Rasberries too. One thing I learned is how much deer like laying in high grass. I see beds in the grass more than anything in the fall. Brush and high grass makes them feel safe and there is water across the road , and farm fields on each side with about 3 acres of hardwood behind me.. I also planted white pines in 2007 . It is ok, but not like young spruce trees mixed in with the brush and high grass.

 

[WCB]

My dad has 70 acres but about 17 of it is timbered surrounded by ag with a couple over grown fence rows and a grass ditch also running across a wide open Ag field right to his place. He recently had a bunch of buckthorn cut out but prior to that he had probably the thickest stand of woods for a couple miles in each direction. He did cut trails and some small 1/4 or smaller openings and broadcasted clover along with having a couple atv trails cut through it (again broadcasted with clover). IMO you do not have to avoid your property like he plague. If it is thick enough and you aren't jsut regularly walking dogs or have ATV races around it you can easily manage it and check around on it as needed. Hell my dad is back on his once a week sometimes more...maybe cutting a tree that feel across a trail, checking a camera, or just makes a loop. If you can keep it fairly minimal predictable, and the deer in the area are generally used to people being out and about you'll be fine. No idea what his issue was last year he just couldn't close the deal but had 3 bucks over 160 a solid 150 and multiple bucks in the 130-140 range using his property. One of the 160s and 140 type bucks were there from Sept to Dec. Neighbor shot one in the low 160s that my dad missed with his shotgun.

I would say let the fields grow into bedding areas. Control invasive or non desirables through burning, spot spraying or selectively cutting woody plants that you don't want or as the mature to not provide cover. I don't think food plots are a end all be all BUT as the crops around you get harvested the deer may move into or out of your area in search of something else. You have enough land to put an acre or 2 into a plot.

 

[3855WIN]

Bedding cover is #1

I’d be talking to the neighbors about hunting the field edges. If nothing else, ask if you can access your property from the fields.

 

[RockSlip]

You may want to consider additions from the NYSDEC seedling sale held every spring. Hard to beat the price. I have a similar size property and put in 25 copper chinkapin and 25 american hazelnuts this year and they should be producing in a couple of years. You could quickly establish a bedding area with the quick growing spruce they have. Good luck.

The DEC seedling sale is a great resource. If you have the time and space to start some oaks from acorns, and keep them fenced in until they are big enough the deer want them, that's the absolute cheapest route. Put a camera out and see what the deer are currently eating and add to that.

As for the best way? Hydrangeas, at least according to the other half.

 

[Long Cut]

We bought 65 acres in Central GA back in 2020. The farm has produced at least 1 mature buck every season, with the possibility to kill more (if more people hunted it & with rifles).

#1 Hunting / Human pressure has to be minimal to the back portion of the property.
#2 Access has to be wind dependent. Whatever your prevailing wind direction is for October/November make sure your access to stands is ideal for it
#3 Thick bedding; think native vegetation. DO NOT plant oak trees. That will do the opposite of what you want. Think native shrubs, grasses, forbs.
#4 Kill plots; Plants 1-2 small kill plots in there. On the edge, think 1/4-1/2 acre at most. Clover, cereal grain blends
#5 Water Hole; think a 100-200 gallon stock tank dug into the ground. Setup on the edge of a food plot with a camera & tree stand in close proximity.

I HIGHLY recommend you research Dr. Craig Harper, Dr. Grant Woods (Growing Deer TV), Mississippi State Deer Lab, University of Florida Deer Lab on YouTube & Google for information.

If anything, please understand that less is more. Less impact, cutting, planting etc the food is there. Provide the bedding and you will kill them.

Please feel free to PM me if you have any further questions. I do enjoy talking “strategy” & habitat management for whitetail deer.

Here’s a couple random pics of the farm and 2 of the bucks I’ve killed out there

 

[Yukon Cornelius]

To make it better file for Independence from the state of NY.