Is your hunting spot affected by fire?

[TheGDog]

1.) They have no feelings of responsibility towards those of us who've purchased tags. None. So get that thought just right out of your head. If anything, I'd bet they feel relieved they don't have to "watch" us (Ha!) and respond to occasional rescue/help requests because of this.

2.) Erosion - In the past... in the North-Western half of D11 (the part above Hwy 14 and East of Hwy 5) they closed off that entire thing for years... something like 13 Million acres or something? citing "the powerhouse fire" and how they didn't want problems with erosion exacerbated. You know, what with us filthy heathens walking... MTB'ing... and driving around (GASP!)

What's chapping my hide... is that there are no fires in my part of Northern D15. There's no greater risk right now, then at any other SummerTime in the past. But they're just electing to be lazy and throw out the blanket statement of "Close 'Em All!" just like they at first did in response to the stupid lockdown order "Just Close'Em All !!" it's the lazy-mans way out of it.

If they say to Close 'Em All... there's no arguments about one spot getting shown favor over another. So less quibbling and complaints they'll end up fielding.. and they know it.

And... I could certainly see some greenie... high-up in the chain of power... fiendishly seeing this as an excellent opportunity "to help those poor animals from being slaughtered by all those hunters". Which is ironic, since now with this fire it'd be more important than ever to get their numbers down a little so there's food to go around for them. But I digress.

 

[SouthPaw]

And... I could certainly see some greenie... high-up in the chain of power... fiendishly seeing this as an excellent opportunity "to help those poor animals from being slaughtered by all those hunters". Which is ironic, since now with this fire it'd be more important than ever to get their numbers down a little so there's food to go around for them. But I digress.

This type of thing is my major concern. Who's to say this closure doesn't become a regular preventative measure for any "critical fire weather", similar to PGE's rolling power shutoffs anytime theres a big North Wind event forecasted? Its unprecedented in my lifetime and just seems like another stepping stone in the slippery slope toward the total ban or extreme limitation of all hunting in CA.

 

[flytrue]

I'm in Mendocino County, about a dozen miles west from Covelo. I'm hunting, but I'm worried.

 

[McSkackman]

1.) They have no feelings of responsibility towards those of us who've purchased tags. None. So get that thought just right out of your head. If anything, I'd bet they feel relieved they don't have to "watch" us (Ha!) and respond to occasional rescue/help requests because of this.

2.) Erosion - In the past... in the North-Western half of D11 (the part above Hwy 14 and East of Hwy 5) they closed off that entire thing for years... something like 13 Million acres or something? citing "the powerhouse fire" and how they didn't want problems with erosion exacerbated. You know, what with us filthy heathens walking... MTB'ing... and driving around (GASP!)

What's chapping my hide... is that there are no fires in my part of Northern D15. There's no greater risk right now, then at any other SummerTime in the past. But they're just electing to be lazy and throw out the blanket statement of "Close 'Em All!" just like they at first did in response to the stupid lockdown order "Just Close'Em All !!" it's the lazy-mans way out of it.

If they say to Close 'Em All... there's no arguments about one spot getting shown favor over another. So less quibbling and complaints they'll end up fielding.. and they know it.

And... I could certainly see some greenie... high-up in the chain of power... fiendishly seeing this as an excellent opportunity "to help those poor animals from being slaughtered by all those hunters". Which is ironic, since now with this fire it'd be more important than ever to get their numbers down a little so there's food to go around for them. But I digress.

Well Said. While I'll be hunting some slivers of private land in D6 was certainly planning to venture in to bordering BLM land. 2020 just keeps getting better.

 

[meta_gabbro]

I’m currently working the August Complex out of Willows CA. While the closures might not make sense to some of you because there’s “no more risk then at any other SummerTime in the past” you have to understand that the current firefighting workforce is nearly half as small as it usually is. No convict crews allowed to work, some crews on mandatory quarantine due to covid outbreaks, and many seasonal firefighters choosing not to work to avoid covid exposure risks. Sure there’s no *additional* risk of fire, but how many fires are caused by humans every September? How many small fires never make the news because they get controlled early on and never make it past a few hundred acres? How many grass fires do you pass driving up through the foothills along the western edge of the valley? We’re dealing with a higher number of large fires than is normal while also working with fewer resources. Currently the state does not have enough resources to police the state for all of the little fires that constantly spring up. And folks like you might not be the problem, but as is pointed out so often in this forum, the people here are an astonishingly tiny minority of the people in the state, and even of the people who use the national forests, so think of all the other folks backpacking, wheeling, over landing, shooting, rock hounding, or illegally growing pot and all of the ways they could start a fire. Trusting that everyone will be responsible is a huge leap, again as is pointed out in this forum (if everyone behaved we wouldn’t need guns for self defense yada yada), and so the best way to reduce overall risk is to limit the number of people going into the forests. If giving up the opportunity to fill my D3-5 tags is part of the cost of reducing the chance that some yahoo dumbass starts a fire that endangers more folks, then I’m willing to give that up. Hell, I’m probably also going to be giving up my deer tags in NM this year since it looks like this will still be an active incident by the end of next month.

 

[McSkackman]

I’m currently working the August Complex out of Willows CA. While the closures might not make sense to some of you because there’s “no more risk then at any other SummerTime in the past” you have to understand that the current firefighting workforce is nearly half as small as it usually is. No convict crews allowed to work, some crews on mandatory quarantine due to covid outbreaks, and many seasonal firefighters choosing not to work to avoid covid exposure risks. Sure there’s no *additional* risk of fire, but how many fires are caused by humans every September? How many small fires never make the news because they get controlled early on and never make it past a few hundred acres? How many grass fires do you pass driving up through the foothills along the western edge of the valley? We’re dealing with a higher number of large fires than is normal while also working with fewer resources. Currently the state does not have enough resources to police the state for all of the little fires that constantly spring up. And folks like you might not be the problem, but as is pointed out so often in this forum, the people here are an astonishingly tiny minority of the people in the state, and even of the people who use the national forests, so think of all the other folks backpacking, wheeling, over landing, shooting, rock hounding, or illegally growing pot and all of the ways they could start a fire. Trusting that everyone will be responsible is a huge leap, again as is pointed out in this forum (if everyone behaved we wouldn’t need guns for self defense yada yada), and so the best way to reduce overall risk is to limit the number of people going into the forests. If giving up the opportunity to fill my D3-5 tags is part of the cost of reducing the chance that some yahoo dumbass starts a fire that endangers more folks, then I’m willing to give that up. Hell, I’m probably also going to be giving up my deer tags in NM this year since it looks like this will still be an active incident by the end of next month.

Thanks for adding some perspective.

 

[Tobias]

I’m currently working the August Complex out of Willows CA. While the closures might not make sense to some of you because there’s “no more risk then at any other SummerTime in the past” you have to understand that the current firefighting workforce is nearly half as small as it usually is. No convict crews allowed to work, some crews on mandatory quarantine due to covid outbreaks, and many seasonal firefighters choosing not to work to avoid covid exposure risks. Sure there’s no *additional* risk of fire, but how many fires are caused by humans every September? How many small fires never make the news because they get controlled early on and never make it past a few hundred acres? How many grass fires do you pass driving up through the foothills along the western edge of the valley? We’re dealing with a higher number of large fires than is normal while also working with fewer resources. Currently the state does not have enough resources to police the state for all of the little fires that constantly spring up. And folks like you might not be the problem, but as is pointed out so often in this forum, the people here are an astonishingly tiny minority of the people in the state, and even of the people who use the national forests, so think of all the other folks backpacking, wheeling, over landing, shooting, rock hounding, or illegally growing pot and all of the ways they could start a fire. Trusting that everyone will be responsible is a huge leap, again as is pointed out in this forum (if everyone behaved we wouldn’t need guns for self defense yada yada), and so the best way to reduce overall risk is to limit the number of people going into the forests. If giving up the opportunity to fill my D3-5 tags is part of the cost of reducing the chance that some yahoo dumbass starts a fire that endangers more folks, then I’m willing to give that up. Hell, I’m probably also going to be giving up my deer tags in NM this year since it looks like this will still be an active incident by the end of next month.

Well said, and thank you for sharing

 

[541hunter]

Just to send this perspective home, I just got off the Archire Fire here in Oregon. Early on in this fire we were told this fire wouldn’t get put out unless the community came together to put it out. What’s this mean? That means foresters like myself, local loggers (many of which had millions in equipment burn up), timber companies and local firefighter groups had to step up and get it done. The woods all around us are locked down, not even timber companies or loggers are suppose to be out on the landscape; mills are running out of wood. This is bigger than you and I and our tags. The resources for fighting fire are tapped out. This is why the forest near you is shut down despite being a normal year. It only takes one idiot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TheGDog]

I’m currently working the August Complex out of Willows CA. While the closures might not make sense to some of you because there’s “no more risk then at any other SummerTime in the past” you have to understand that the current firefighting workforce is nearly half as small as it usually is. No convict crews allowed to work, some crews on mandatory quarantine due to covid outbreaks, and many seasonal firefighters choosing not to work to avoid covid exposure risks. Sure there’s no *additional* risk of fire, but how many fires are caused by humans every September? How many small fires never make the news because they get controlled early on and never make it past a few hundred acres? How many grass fires do you pass driving up through the foothills along the western edge of the valley? We’re dealing with a higher number of large fires than is normal while also working with fewer resources. Currently the state does not have enough resources to police the state for all of the little fires that constantly spring up. And folks like you might not be the problem, but as is pointed out so often in this forum, the people here are an astonishingly tiny minority of the people in the state, and even of the people who use the national forests, so think of all the other folks backpacking, wheeling, over landing, shooting, rock hounding, or illegally growing pot and all of the ways they could start a fire. Trusting that everyone will be responsible is a huge leap, again as is pointed out in this forum (if everyone behaved we wouldn’t need guns for self defense yada yada), and so the best way to reduce overall risk is to limit the number of people going into the forests. If giving up the opportunity to fill my D3-5 tags is part of the cost of reducing the chance that some yahoo dumbass starts a fire that endangers more folks, then I’m willing to give that up. Hell, I’m probably also going to be giving up my deer tags in NM this year since it looks like this will still be an active incident by the end of next month.

Does.... not... matter... *MY* rights should not be deprived because of the *possible* acts of others. Any of us who appreciate our 2A rights I'm sure could understand such a concept and agree with me here, Yes?

You speak of fires and of irresponsible humans and of less people available to fight them. And? So what? That STILL does not mean my rights to travel freely about this great land... especially in our PUBLIC lands... is to be infringed! Agreed?

Don't think I don't feel you and what you're saying. Quite the contrary. In fact... it angers me to hear you say you've got some firefighters who are "choosing not to work to limit exposing themselves". Good freaking grief. I am soo done with this horse sh*t of people still happening to talk about CoVID crap! I got the sh*t from Feb to April. I work from home! I have for the past 19 years straight!!! I'm as isolated as isolated can get. IF I freaking caught it... what does that tell the rest of you? If that doesn't tell you something, then you (the plural you) don't have a strong grasp on biology. Do you think I was stuck in my home without leaving it at all for 2 months? No. I still had to go the grocery store... RiteAid to get a buncha meds to help combat the heinous symptoms, etc. for 2 whole months.. PRIOR... to them calling the ridiculous lockdown crap! Do you not see where I'm going with this? Just from ME alone walking around breathing... you have any idea even with my limited exposure to the rest of the population just how much it can spread in 2 whole months? And don't get me wrong... it was bad... real damn bad for someone like me with seasonal COPD/EIB issues/sensitivities. At the worst of it I was gurgling on inhale...on exhale.. and even while sleeping! Low Ox... the whole 9 yds. I say all this to say that anybody that is TODAY... 6 months later... still saying they are electing not to do this or that for fear of exposure... is only doing because either A) they are delusional and believe the govt BS, or, more correctly, are doing so to be lazy and take advantage of something socially others are disallowed to argue with.

Now... back to the infringement aspect. People get killed by cars. All the damn day...every damn day! And we're talking about a privilege...not a right! You see anybody closing down the damn freeways for lockdowns? I thought not. Sometimes for fires. True. But extremely briefly.

Naw... Bump That... they don't get to pick and choose when it's convenient or inconvenient to elect to infringe upon my rights. "Obedience is Not Patriotism". The correct answer is NEVER. And... if you embrace the concept of what it means to be an American thru-and-thru... an individual above all else who understands just how important it is that the agreement we've all entered into... called the constitution... MUST be upheld above all else. Because of the openness is creates... because of the balance of power it creates. Then, as a gentleman and a scholar, you would have to concede to the point I'm making here.

Even if a human wanted to purposefully.... walk right damn into the heart of a forest fire... that's their damn right to do so! You can certainly elect to inform them that if they do so at this certain time... that they are on their own. And I whole-heartedly encourage that effort. But... you cannot stop that person from exercising their rights... as long as them exercising their rights isn't infringing upon anyone elses rights, we're good. Ya feel me?

And no... we don't have to Trust that everyone will be responsible. Obviously most are not. If they were? We wouldn't have ever-growing ever-expanding population numbers decade after decade, Yes? Hell... in the US alone... in my lifetime.... we've grown 60% in Population! You don't think a pathogen spreading around a few.. or a gnarly famine kickin' up dust right about now isn't part of nature's plan in the big scheme of things? It TOTALLY is! This time, it just got helped along by some a$$holes with bad intentions, but that's really beside the point.

 

[Ihatecrashing]

I'm worried about BLM being packed...I pretty much only have Cow Mountain to hunt, and had two rounds fly over my head two weeks ago. I don't even feel like going out there tomorrow night.

That is scary and what I'm a little concerned about. High concentration of tag holders who have been "quarantined" for far too long...

Same here, been trying to weigh the pros and cons to trying to figure it out on BLM land with no scouting ahead of the time. BLM is going to be a cluster until things open back up, if they do.

I got some scouting time today and will head out again tomorrow morning, but I didn't see anything (I'm a total noob and probably glassed over a ton of deer). I did find some deer "highways" that hopefully turn something up.

I’m currently working the August Complex out of Willows CA. While the closures might not make sense to some of you because there’s “no more risk then at any other SummerTime in the past” you have to understand that the current firefighting workforce is nearly half as small as it usually is. No convict crews allowed to work, some crews on mandatory quarantine due to covid outbreaks, and many seasonal firefighters choosing not to work to avoid covid exposure risks. Sure there’s no *additional* risk of fire, but how many fires are caused by humans every September? How many small fires never make the news because they get controlled early on and never make it past a few hundred acres? How many grass fires do you pass driving up through the foothills along the western edge of the valley? We’re dealing with a higher number of large fires than is normal while also working with fewer resources. Currently the state does not have enough resources to police the state for all of the little fires that constantly spring up. And folks like you might not be the problem, but as is pointed out so often in this forum, the people here are an astonishingly tiny minority of the people in the state, and even of the people who use the national forests, so think of all the other folks backpacking, wheeling, over landing, shooting, rock hounding, or illegally growing pot and all of the ways they could start a fire. Trusting that everyone will be responsible is a huge leap, again as is pointed out in this forum (if everyone behaved we wouldn’t need guns for self defense yada yada), and so the best way to reduce overall risk is to limit the number of people going into the forests. If giving up the opportunity to fill my D3-5 tags is part of the cost of reducing the chance that some yahoo dumbass starts a fire that endangers more folks, then I’m willing to give that up. Hell, I’m probably also going to be giving up my deer tags in NM this year since it looks like this will still be an active incident by the end of next month.

Thanks for the perspective. The whole ordeal is perfect 2020 timing. I think many people in California feel like the Covid control stuff started out with the intentions of increasing safety then turned into a power grab by state and local officials. I can see how closing forests right at the start of hunting season feels like another power grab. I'll go look for a deer on BLM land and hope that the forests open up soon and you firefighters get some relief. Be safe out there.

-crashing

 

[Tiny1685]

Cant see and getting snowed on with ash at 8800'

 

[meta_gabbro]

Well TDog I can see that nobody will be able to sway you from your me-myself-and-I attitude. It does make me sad that you’re so concerned with your own rights that you have discarded any empathy or consideration for others, but as you say that’s your prerogative.

ihatecrashing, always happy to speak about that sort of stuff. I used to not really appreciate what surface management agencies did until I started working for one and most of what I used to vilify them for turned out to not really be true, so I try to clarify and provide opinions from the other wise when I can.

Tiny, word is red flag warnings coming down for the North Complex later tonight, possibly for the August as well. Would not be surprised if the ash was even worse tomorrow.

 

[TheGDog]

Well TDog I can see that nobody will be able to sway you from your me-myself-and-I attitude. It does make me sad that you’re so concerned with your own rights that you have discarded any empathy or consideration for others, but as you say that’s your prerogative.

In what way have I discarded any empathy and consideration for others? Those are some very bold statements to make if you're not going to back them up by pointing out specific piece-parts of what I presented as your evidence of that.

You electing to view it solely in terms of perceiving what I'm saying as a "Me-Myself-and I" diatribe is nothing more than you falling victim to the current sickening trend of care-shaming and virtue-signalling.

 

[meta_gabbro]

Look man I really don’t care to get any more in depth with my interactions with you. I’ve said my piece, and you’ve been quite clear with your stance on things. I doubt any attempt at conversation will be pleasant for you, or I, or anyone else on this thread. Let’s let sleeping dogs lie.

 

[Warmsy]

In what way have I discarded any empathy and consideration for others? Those are some very bold statements to make if you're not going to back them up by pointing out specific piece-parts of what I presented as your evidence of that.

You electing to view it solely in terms of perceiving what I'm saying as a "Me-Myself-and I" diatribe is nothing more than you falling victim to the current sickening trend of care-shaming and virtue-signalling.

Yeah I think you were harsh, but I totally agree with you. I'm hesitant in my own lack of knowledge, but I'm sick of the nanny state in California. Thanks fir putting it out there.

 

[TheGDog]

That's part of the problem... everybody and their Mama is afraid to speak their mind these days because this cancel-culture has run so rampant that everyone is afraid to speak up! MOST of the conservative side... elects to just hold their tongue and let the left flap their gums. But... IMHO... that is too dangerous to allow to happen... for the more you let them flap their gums... without countering them and seizing the opportunity to interject valid logic and reasoning, the more chance and opportunity it gives for their ill-informed stance on issues to take root in the earholes of the massive amount of stupid mofos we got runnin' 'round this damn state potentially listening to them in their little mini-echo-chamber! All my brothers and sisters with half a lick of sense in their head for understanding the "long-game" of it all need to speak the hell up!

I understand that some are ill-equipped in terms of fortitude or verbal wordsmithing sword-play. Or just even rudimentary debating skills... you know.. so I get where their trepidation comes from in terms of not wanting to speak out and the fear over doing so. But thankfully... for some of us... we've lived a life and have experienced some serious lows along with the highs. So in having lived thru them, we are emboldened with knowing that no matter what life may elect to throw at us... we know we'll always land on our feet, and we'll be alright because we've got that never-give-up, fighter, adaptability mindset.

And see that's the thing... psychologically I understand all the motivations for why others might be inclined to fall victim to the way the powers at be have chosen to spun the narratives flying around on all these current events.... for I understand the Pimp mentality. i.e. The mentality of how the power elite would elect to "never let a good crisis go to waste". And all the crafty psychological tricks they employ in their playbook to... um.. you perhaps might say "quell" the strength of the opposition? Just throw in a little ingroup vs ourgroup psychology there to make the guy who speaks up be afraid of being shunned and a lot of the times you're golden. BUT... what they perhaps never counted on was those of us who've always been independent thinkers of a more solitary nature.... but yet down with computintg since day one and adept at making use of modern communication platforms... calling them out on their bullsh*t. Point by point by point. Fully ready to go down the list and point by point counter any and all claims they my *try* to throw at our logic. Fully ready to take them thru the "long-game" logic of why our points are valid, and all the flaws in their thinking. If they "wanna take it there". IMHO too many in our country now are majority "emotionally-led"... much to their own peril. To get to the truth in the situation... you have to be able to peel away feelings and be able to just see the cold hard logic and facts that presents itself in the situation, especially in terms of taking note of what we've learned happens in history when certain types of behaviours by governance aren't put in check.

And just for the record... I haven't said anything harsh at all. I just speak "colorfully" and in a very animated way. Remember... when you write something in text... its (emotional) interpretation (perception?) is held hostage by the current mental state of the person reading it.

 

[TheGDog]

RE: lack of knowledge... let me throw this out there. Do you all remember when these protests... which all turned into riots... started happening? Fresh after the lockdown BS was first enacted?

Now... most folks with some learning to 'em know that, generally speaking, incubation times within a new host before outward symptoms will start to appear is usually (generally speaking) somewhere in the neighborhood of 3-to-5 days with introduction of a new virus into a new host.

Full-well knowing this... I watched... just like all of you... BUT... then I waited! And I waited with a purpose! I wanted to see just how long before they came back in the media using these gatherings to cite that a spike in cases occurred.

First of all... just because you know DAMN WELL they were going to use these gatherings to further promote their do-as-we-say agenda.

And guess what? These dumba$$e$ came back in just 2 days reporting a spike in cases! C'Mon man!.... think about it! Even if.... even if.. let's just say that there actually did occur some freak incubation period that was that rapid (and it's not, remember...every member of my family has had this already.. so I know it's about 3 days) But even if.. it was 2 days. Do you honestly think all the data-input and then running of reports... and the data shown on those reports... would get itself into the hands of somebody in a newsroom THAT DAMN FAST??? Get Real! THAT... was the moment I understood their true goals.

Now again... if you're someone like me... with the co-morbidities... for me COPD/EIB/lung sensitivities.. and I've always had Hypertension since like 22yo.... yeah... it's a very HARSH thing! Like a whole 'nother level. Trust me on this. But.. like for my wife and my boy.. it was still strong, sure... but NOTHING... and I mean NOTHING... like what I went thru with it. So... for the majority of folks out there.. it's not that big a deal.

And C'Mon man... all these silly measures they got us doing? Literally on all of them... I can EASILY point out why they are foolish and ineffective. Mostly it's because the public simply just isn't carrying them out properly. For example... how many of you in here in CA have looked around and seen all the "chin-straps" being worn by all the dumba$$ idiots out there? "Chin straps"... because if I can see your damn nose.. .guess what? The mask ain't on right, so what's the freakin' point anyway? And C'Mon man... we ALL know that like... I'd say around my area.... maybe... 40% of the people do that whole "chin-strap" thing with the silly masks.

Then there are the subtle psychological changes they started making to the messaging campaign once they noted that many people were rebelling against their authority! What did it say in the beginning? "Slow the spread. Flatten the curve." Why? Because they KNEW it wasn't going to STOP the spread.... you'd have to be a total freakin' idiot to believe such a thing. BUT.... once various counties in CA starting protesting and rebelling against these shenanigans... then what did we start to see on these ads and messaging? Hmmm.... interesting "Show you care. Wear a Mask."

Then... once they realized more people were starting to catch on to their game... THEN what did they do? They ramped it up to the next notch! That ad where it starts with the camera focused on a patient in a bed on a ventilator going. Just shows that... for several seconds.. before you hear any voice-over. And what did they say on the ads then? GASP!!!! "Show you care. *Stop* the spread."

<Record Scratch sound>Wait... what? What did they just say? What the? Oh no they di'in't. Yes they did! And THAT... is when those of us with discernment realized that they did like in Tropic Thunder and went Full Retard.

And come on man.... like when they arrested the dude for paddle-boarding out in Malibu? Are you bleepin' serious? You're over here talking about social-distancing. Welp... I can't think of anything more socially distanced than that! All by yourself? In the middle of the Pacific Ocean? And yet.. Hmmm... they elected to arrest and cite him? Then a hop, skip and a jump after that... is when they first started in with that whole close all the forests BS? Have we all forgotten about that one soo soon?

So yeah... THAT.. is why I'm saying... that when they go today... and want to pull that same BS... of "Close 'Em All" ... even in areas that haven't been affected AT ALL by fires... Naw man.... I have to call BS on that one. Sure... you know... in those places where there is active burning going on.. hey.. I get it.. it might suck.. but I get it. Something like that.. I can wrap my head around and accept. But this BS of "Close 'Em All!". Naw man... that's just a precipitous of the same d*ckhead at the top (Newsom) making yet another d*ckhead power-grab move. Especially now since we've allowed him to get away with it that first time. That emboldened the likes of him to push the envelope with it again. Mark my words. A very clear message from the citizenry needs to be sent back to them... or they WILL exercise this playbook again. That's just how these things work. Bottom-line.

 

[CamoPirate]

I hunted the deserts when I was in Cali; can't close it due to fire if there's nothing to burn

 

[TheGDog]

I hunted the deserts when I was in Cali; can't close it due to fire if there's nothing to burn

"Forest" is just the title they give it. That doesn't necessarily mean it isn't a Desert. You can still get cited if that land you're steppin' on is "under their power and control...MUAAHAHAHAAAAA...!!!!", er...sorry.. was having a Newsom moment there.

 

[CamoPirate]

"Forest" is just the title they give it. That doesn't necessarily mean it isn't a Desert. You can still get cited if that land you're steppin' on is "under their power and control...MUAAHAHAHAAAAA...!!!!", er...sorry.. was having a Newsom moment there.

That's why I left. Just greedy money grabbers left and right.