Is there interest in a 6.5mm 150gr Accubond?

[cal30_sniper]

What? It’s not in your paper with all the bar charts? *chuckle*

Why do you think companies don’t brag about their special proprietary process except in cryptic pseudo technical terms? Glue doesn’t have the same ring to it does it? The lead core only has 1/6th the tensile strength of the jacket so it’s not rocket science. At one time it was no secret when bonded cores were held in with adhesive, but they are all better at marketing now.

I have been impressed Corbin the bullet swaging supplier for diy guys has flux and supplies to pour molten cores for bonded bullets. They even discus why their molten process is better than adhesives, although their biggest argument against adhesives is they bond to any oxide layer, but fresh drawn and degreased jackets aren’t going to have a lot of corrosion. Where would you think they got the impression some bonded bullets are glued? *chuckle*

http://swage.com/ftp/corebond.pdf

Option A: bullet manufacturers reference chemical conversion and plating processes when describing bonded bullets because that’s what they’re using to bond the core to the jacket. Bullets that in independent controlled testing fare significantly better than partition and cup and core bullets in both retained weight and form, clearly demonstrating the bond is robust.

Option B: bullet manufacturers are lying to you in some elaborate conspiracy to get away with selling cup and core bullets with glue added as bonded bullets. They’ve got their best lawyers crafting finely worded statements to keep you deceived. No one other than the ancients can see through their deceptive practices. Miraculously, using only simple glue, these bullets display retained weight and jacket retention that rivals mono bullets in independent testing.

 

[Steve O]

It isn't the 8 grains I'm talking about, its the dropping of the "LR." We already have a 150gr ABLR.

The 150g is not a 6.5mm bullet as you asked in your original post.

The answer is still “no”, nothing wrong with the “LR” AB.

Follow the directions Nosler gives for OAL and there is not much else that needs to be done. I’d wager those that have a tough time getting them to shoot are using their own “technique”.

 

[TaperPin]

One more time, just so we’re clear: bonded bullets aren't cup and core, cup and core bullets aren’t bonded, and neither of them use glue.

You’re right I need to get with the times and stop casually referring to bonded bullets as cup and core. Now if someone just learning about bonded bullets asks what they are I’ll still call them a cup and core with a little glue. lol

 

[TaperPin]

Option A: bullet manufacturers reference chemical conversion and plating processes when describing bonded bullets because that’s what they’re using to bond the core to the jacket. Bullets that in independent controlled testing fare significantly better than partition and cup and core bullets in both retained weight and form, clearly demonstrating the bond is robust.

Option B: bullet manufacturers are lying to you in some elaborate conspiracy to get away with selling cup and core bullets with glue added as bonded bullets. They’ve got their best lawyers crafting finely worded statements to keep you deceived. No one other than the ancients can see through their deceptive practices. Miraculously, using only simple glue, these bullets display retained weight and jacket retention that rivals mono bullets in independent testing.

View attachment 885383

Out of curiosity when I get a chance I’ll cut an Accubond in half and heat it up pretty hot, but not hot enough to melt the core. If it’s like a lot of industrial epoxies the core would let go and pop out before 400 degrees. If it doesn’t I’ll stop suggesting glue is so common, but I have heard it said by someone credible that’s there’s glue in there.

 

[Robobiss]

On a 10"-thick aoudad it would make little difference, but on a mature bull slightly quartering-to with a 2" scapula to get through? I'm sure it would kill but I'm not sure the AB of same weight wouldn't drive deeper by opening slower.

Oh boy. Now you’ve done it.

 

[N2TRKYS]

I know "no experience" is the answer you were probably fishing for, but crunch the numbers and you'll see both those bullets are highly relevant to this discussion.

The 140gr .277 has almost identical SD to the 130gr .264 (.261 vs .266). Ditto on the 160gr 7mm and the 140gr 6.5 (.283 vs .287). Both launched at 3000-3100fps from 24" barrel 270 and 7mm Rem Mag rifles, so about twins to what a 6.5PRC would be expected to send the 130 and 140 at.

I was looking for your actual experience with the bullets that you acted like you had experience with. Cool story, though.

 

[N2TRKYS]

150ABLR:
View attachment 885321

Same premise here. Though slipperier when looking at BC, the slower 150gr doesn't catch up to the faster yet slightly worse BC 142gr ABLR. Another fine example of form factor at work:
View attachment 885322

But do you actually know if one is actually a tougher bullet or not? Or are you just reading “data?”

 

[cal30_sniper]

I was looking for your actual experience with the bullets that you acted like you had experience with. Cool story, though.

So you believe someone should put one of every type of possible Accubond configuration into an animal before making claims on what nearly identical configurations would accomplish? Interesting barrier of entry for discussion…

 

[N2TRKYS]

So you believe someone should put one of every type of possible Accubond configuration into an animal before making claims on what nearly identical configurations would accomplish? Interesting barrier of entry for discussion…

I asked you your experience with the bullets you referenced cause you acted like you had experience with them and you said that you had none. I’m saying that my experience with actually shooting animals with some of the bullets you’ve referenced, have in fact, shown me a difference. But you keep trusting your charts, I guess.

 

[cal30_sniper]

But do you actually know if one is actually a tougher bullet or not? Or are you just reading “data?”

To date I’ve seen no significant difference in terminal performance for any AB configuration I’ve tried, including .277, .284, and .308 diameters. I can’t imagine that Nosler is deviating from the recipe significantly enough to matter. Hopefully I’ll also be able to add .358 and .366 to that list soon. If they’d make something decent in .257, I’d be willing to try that also.

Is there any indication that they’re using thicker jacket material on heavier bullets in the same caliber? That would seem counterproductive to adding weight, but easily verified by cutting a few apart.

Is there any indication that a “tougher” bullet is even needed in the first place? What’s good enough and what’s better than good here? I’ll loop back to my initial claim that if a TMK or ELDM kills reliably, I’d have zero concerns with a bonded lead core bullet being sufficient if arriving at an appropriate velocity for reliable expansion.

 

[cal30_sniper]

I asked you your experience with the bullets you referenced cause you acted like you had experience with them and you said that you had none. I’m saying that my experience with actually shooting animals with some of the bullets you’ve referenced, have in fact, shown me a difference. But you keep trusting your charts, I guess.

What difference was that? You said you got passthroughs, I’d expect those at closer ranges (and have had them on whitetails inside of 200yds with 150gr from .308 Win).

Unless you’ve had something blow up and fail to penetrate, I think our experiences are similar, and we’re likely talking past each other.

If I get bored, I’d love to try some of the 130s in a 6.5x55. I’ve got stacks of 140gr gameking reloads, but maybe I’ll work some of the 130s up next to the 107s I’m playing with.

 

[wind gypsy]

If your stance is that no one needs a 150gr AB precisely because no one even needs the 140, I've got you marked down as a "no."

I'm in the "no" category but remain curious - does the 140 AB not penetrate enough? Based on how ABs work, it seems like that would be the only upgrade terminally you might get from a 150 vs a 140?

 

[TaylorC]

I'm in the "no" category but remain curious - does the 140 AB not penetrate enough? Based on how ABs work, it seems like that would be the only upgrade terminally you might get from a 150 vs a 140?

Understand my interest is theoretical but that's what I'm working with, yes. The PRC has the ability to run the 150 at a reasonable speed and hammer even the worst quartering-away shot. At 200 yards I "believe" we're giving up some of that potential with the 150 ablr and its design goal.
Gel tests with same-weight AB vs ABLR would be enlightening either way.

 

[woods89]

Yes I've read up on it. Similar problem with explosive results at high velocity, designed to maximize BC above all else. If I wasn't clear in the OP my quest is for a normal-range heavy, not catering to the terminal performance needs of an 800-yard shot on big game.

The first elk in the 6.5/260 thread is a bull I killed with a 156 Berger, at about 60 yards, with a 6.5 Creedmoor that started them at about 2650 fps. I also killed a few whitetails with them, at very moderate ranges, and never saw explosive results. Generally a coke can sized wound channel with a bit of a neck on the entry side.

If I was shooting a PRC they are likely the only bullet I would shoot. I found them incredibly accurate, with great terminal characteristics. The only reason I have moved away from them is that I really have to lean on them to shoot them fast enough for stability out of a 1-8 twist CM.

If you want to kill an elk with a 6.5, there are a wide variety of 130-150 gr bullets that will do quite nicely. Just put it in the lungs.

Oh, and if you hold an elk scapula up to the light you can see through it.........

 

[cal30_sniper]

Understand my interest is theoretical but that's what I'm working with, yes. The PRC has the ability to run the 150 at a reasonable speed and hammer even the worst quartering-away shot. At 200 yards I "believe" we're giving up some of that potential with the 150 ablr and its design goal.
Gel tests with same-weight AB vs ABLR would be enlightening either way.

I'd be very interested in seeing such a test. If anyone digs such a test up, please share.

 

[Randy11]

I have three 6.5 PRC rifles and have settled on 3 bullets depending upon the game and circumstances. 127 LRX for antelope and deer for close range hay field work or were are going to donate meat. 147 ELDM for general hunting and shooting. 156 Berger for deer and elk. I don't take silly "raking" shots and none of those bullets have ever bounced off a shoulder blade. Not sure what a bonded 150 grain would add to the current field of bullets that isn't already cover by another bullet.

Jay

You've had good results with the 127 LRX up close?

I'm shooting them at 3250 mv, and have been curious how they'd do at that high of a velocity. So far I've only used it at distance.

 

[The Guide]

You've had good results with the 127 LRX up close?

I'm shooting them at 3250 mv, and have been curious how they'd do at that high of a velocity. So far I've only used it at distance.

Great results from 50 to 500 yards. Factory ammo at 2974 fps. Close range work were head/neck shots results were broken bones with no explosive mush. Stuff at 200+ were high shoulder or behind shoulder shots with soup interior and all had exits. Have not gotten a bullet back on game animals only on steel and rocks which resulted in beautiful copper roses.

Jay

 

[N2TRKYS]

To date I’ve seen no significant difference in terminal performance for any AB configuration I’ve tried, including .277, .284, and .308 diameters. I can’t imagine that Nosler is deviating from the recipe significantly enough to matter. Hopefully I’ll also be able to add .358 and .366 to that list soon. If they’d make something decent in .257, I’d be willing to try that also.

Is there any indication that they’re using thicker jacket material on heavier bullets in the same caliber? That would seem counterproductive to adding weight, but easily verified by cutting a few apart.

Is there any indication that a “tougher” bullet is even needed in the first place? What’s good enough and what’s better than good here? I’ll loop back to my initial claim that if a TMK or ELDM kills reliably, I’d have zero concerns with a bonded lead core bullet being sufficient if arriving at an appropriate velocity for reliable expansion.

I’ve had better performance with heavier bullets in the first 3 you mentioned. I’ve had great luck with the 110 AB in my 25-06.

It is widely known that some of Nosler’s ballistic tips are stronger than others in certain calibers and weight cases.

I haven’t been impressed at all with the performance of the TMKs in the 223, specifically. It’s been my experience that heavier weight bonded bullets tend to perform better on game.

 

[N2TRKYS]

What difference was that? You said you got passthroughs, I’d expect those at closer ranges (and have had them on whitetails inside of 200yds with 150gr from .308 Win).

Unless you’ve had something blow up and fail to penetrate, I think our experiences are similar, and we’re likely talking past each other.

If I get bored, I’d love to try some of the 130s in a 6.5x55. I’ve got stacks of 140gr gameking reloads, but maybe I’ll work some of the 130s up next to the 107s I’m playing with.

I asked because I’ve seen differences in penetration between the 130 AB and 140 AB in a 270 Win, even at close range.

Again, I asked what your real world experience with those specific bullets in 6.5 cal because you acted like you had experience with them. I was curious to hear your experience with them. However, you didn’t actually have real world experience with them, so you couldn’t answer my question. Not sure why you feel compelled to keep talking about bullets you don’t have experience with?

 

[Randy11]

Great results from 50 to 500 yards. Factory ammo at 2974 fps. Close range work were hear/neck shots results were broken bones with no explosive mush. Stuff at 200+ were high shoulder or behind shoulder shots with soup interior and all had exits. Have not gotten a bullet back on game animals only on steel and rocks which resulted in beautiful copper roses.

Jay

Awesome, thank you! Are you swapping them out to the other bullets mainly for BC?