Is 500 yards a long shot?

Here is a question for you? Is it ever okay for the animal to win? To beat us, to get away? To be in a spot that we can’t really get to? Or is that unacceptable?

To some degree, this is the difference between hunting and shooting - for me, the more chance an animal has to get away, the more towards the hunting end of the spectrum it is. Personal ethics and priorities also play a role in determining the boundaries on any given situation. It's also a big part of why I'm not interested in hunting out of a stand - it's not the same thing as getting out into a buck's bedroom, where they have all the advantages. But I'll fight tooth and nail for a guy to be able to treestand hunt.
 
The older I get the less inclined I am to dictate what should or shouldn't be ethical for someone else, and I'm sure not going to question their capabilities...well until they start wounding a bunch of animals that is. Personally I think 500 is about the limit where I start questioning how practiced I am recently and if I haven't plinked steel in the recent past I probably won't take the shot.

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500 is long for me in the field.

I consistently ring steel at 500 from the bench with either dialing or holdover with my department issued .308, so 500 is not long for me that way.

But my longest one shot kills on game are one elk at 300 and one antelope at 300 with my .270 Winchester with a fixed 6x and 200 yard zero, so 500 is long for me that way.

Does that last paragraph scream “fudd?” Oh well, I reckon I’ll just have to somehow muddle through regardless of what the young’uns think. Now, where did I put my black and green checked flannel shirt?
 
Also the trolls from the other thread believe that it is always possible to get closer, i have seen many of situations where there is no way to get closer and still see the animal…. Ie the animal is across a canyon.
I’ve lost sight of elk trying to get closer, never seen them again, and not filled my tag for the season. I’ve lost sight of elk trying to get closer, found them again, and made clean kills. In neither case do I regret trying to get closer.
 
The older I get the less inclined I am to dictate what should or shouldn't be ethical for someone else, and I'm sure not going to question their capabilities...well until they start wounding a bunch of animals that is. Personally I think 500 is about the limit where I start questioning how practiced I am recently and if I haven't plinked steel in the recent past I probably won't take the shot.

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The older I get and the more people I talk to, the more I question most people's stated capabilities. I'd love to have more "prove it" shooting matches with the hunters I talk to, just a friendly shoot, but have them actually state what they can hit with no excuses. Then see what happens on the first shot. Cold bore challenge style, but tailored to whatever claim that person is making. I talk to so many "I'm good to 500" hunters and they practice about once or twice a year, right before season, from a bench for a few rounds. I call BS.

It's not really my business what they do in the field, or at least, it's only my business in the sense that anyone's actions in the field reflect on all of us. They're free to make their own choices but I don't have to be happy about all of them.
 
The older I get and the more people I talk to, the more I question most people's stated capabilities. I'd love to have more "prove it" shooting matches with the hunters I talk to, just a friendly shoot, but have them actually state what they can hit with no excuses. Then see what happens on the first shot. Cold bore challenge style, but tailored to whatever claim that person is making. I talk to so many "I'm good to 500" hunters and they practice about once or twice a year, right before season, from a bench for a few rounds. I call BS.

It's not really my business what they do in the field, or at least, it's only my business in the sense that anyone's actions in the field reflect on all of us. They're free to make their own choices but I don't have to be happy about all of them.
I don't have to be happy about other's choices but I dont have to be unhappy about them either. That's sort of my point. I have to live with my choices and they have to live with their's.

500 is a poke for me and not something I'd personally do on an animal without having a good bit of range time recently. That's what I meant. Other fellas have a good bit more skill than I and may think 500 is a chip shot.

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Here is a question for you? Is it ever okay for the animal to win? To beat us, to get away? To be in a spot that we can’t really get to? Or is that unacceptable?

For me it’s 100% acceptable for the animal to win. While I am a meat hunter it’s also about the challenge of my skills as a hunter against an animals ability to kick my ass without ever touching me.
 
Hey roksliders, apparently there are a few fudds on the forum that think a 500 yard shot is sooo long and unethical for a shot. Parameters for this discussion, low to zero wind, ballistic rangefinder thats been trued out to 1000yards, shooting off a tripod with a bag or bipod prone.

Your parameters for this discussion are for perfect conditions and I have never seem them in my time in the field but using them I would say for “some hunters” yes, 500y is too far and based on what I see at the range every time “some hunters” is a lot.
 
Here is a question for you? Is it ever okay for the animal to win? To beat us, to get away? To be in a spot that we can’t really get to? Or is that unacceptable?
It’s okay for me. And, to my way thinking, if a “social media influencer” misses the chance to post a trophy of a lifetime, it’s even more okay.
 
It’s okay for me. And, to my way thinking, if a “social media influencer” misses the chance to post a trophy of a lifetime, it’s even more okay.
Right, I get it I’m out there to kill too, but I have to remind myself that it can’t be at all costs. When you get to that point you are chasing something else other than animal flesh. I would call it greed or pride or something else.

If we get to the point that it’s life and death to kill a bull or buck I don’t think we are posting on the internet anymore and by all means, get that critter down anyway you can…
 
To me 500 isn’t far with good with low wind 10 mph or under. It all depends on conditions.
 
Is 500 yards a long distance? Depends on how you look at it. I can pop steel all day long with my precision rifle, Kestrel and 4DOF at 600-800 yards. Now I hunt with a 30-06 and my farthest shot was around 250 yards which is about the max distance on the fields I hunt. Almost all the deer I have shot have been under a 150 yards. Personally I wouldn’t shoot an animal at 500 yards but if you practice and can make that shot go for it. Doesn’t matter to me, I don’t judge.
 
My north fence is 515 yds. I'm not particularly thrilled with a shot that far. However there is a luck factor involved along with skill. On a day a number of years ago my son shot a running coyote near that fence - offhand from my yard. My comment was "bet you can't do that twice".
 
To some degree, this is the difference between hunting and shooting - for me, the more chance an animal has to get away, the more towards the hunting end of the spectrum it is. Personal ethics and priorities also play a role in determining the boundaries on any given situation. It's also a big part of why I'm not interested in hunting out of a stand - it's not the same thing as getting out into a buck's bedroom, where they have all the advantages. But I'll fight tooth and nail for a guy to be able to treestand hunt.
As I get older, I too wonder about this, but at the same time as my physical capabilities are decreasing my need for venison (for our family and others) has also increased at a far faster pace. So, now it is often a choice between hunting or shooting. As my need to provide increased amounts of red meat and to manage the does/hogs on our property increases, I tend to be more of a shooter than a hunter. Although I do try to get out on at least one or two hunts a year that are true "hunts".

From my front door to the edge of the shootable portion of our front pasture is ~700 yards. I try to keep my shots inside of a half second of flight time (425-475 yards depending on the day and the rifle) here due to our mtn top winds and the fact that I don't really have a reason to take iffy shots when I can wait an hour or a day and shoot the same critter at half the distance if I am patient. I have the training, practice, and gear to make longer shots if required but why take an unnecessary risk at 500 when shooting at sub-400 is a guarantee mostly regardless of conditions? I think we owe the animals more respect than to chance a shot or hope for a desired outcome.
 
The months leading up to hunting season, I'm constantly out at the local range practicing or helping buddies get their rifles set up. When someone else pulls up to the range, a lot of times they'll come over and spark up a conversation that inevitably leads to talking about the rifles they have, and what they're doing with them. Inspired by Backfire's videos on Youtube, I've gotten into the habit of asking what their maximum, cold bore, "hunting in the field" range is. Any time someone has replied with a number of 500 yards or more, I've taken out a $20 bill and asked if they wanted to bet on a first round impact using any rest they wanted to use other than the bench. (Note: I don't act like a jerk about it, I offer it as a friendly wager and say that I have a running experiment going with it). The range has steel targets that are about 3 MOA, which to me is a reasonable size given that moose are the main animal people are hunting around here.

I've had four or five people decline, probably 10 take me up on it, and only one that made the impact and took my money. His range was 500, he pulled out a bare bones Tikka in 7 Rem Mag with a Vortex Diamondback BDC scope, and smacked that gong as dead center as could be. What made it even more awesome is the $20 bill I gave him had come from a guy that tried on the same target 5 minutes prior, with a rifle setup worth more than the truck he was driving.

So, to answer the question, yes I think 500 yards is a lot harder of a shot than most people realize. There are people who have invested the time, money, and effort into becoming capable enough to do it ethically, and then there are significantly more people who slap the gong on their 3rd try after shooting less than a box of ammo through their new rifle, and decide they are ready to start slinging lead. There's really no way of preventing the latter, other than encouraging all of your buddies and relatives to spend the money on an extra case of ammo and get out practicing more.

Full disclosure: Once after collecting money on a 600 yard shot attempt, the guy asked me what my max was. I had been shooting at 6 and 700 yards that day practicing positional shooting, but based on the previous practice I had and the rifle's impact velocities, I had a hard cap of 500. He offered double or nothing, and I whiffed (zero excuses) on the 12" gong using my pack as a rest. We both had a laugh, I handed him his money back, and we both learned a lesson. After some more practice I learned that my pack wasn't stable enough, and limited myself to only shooting past 400 if I was on a bipod. Later that season I took a black bear at 495, and I was only comfortable with that because conditions were perfect, I had plenty of time to make a super stable shooting position, and I had spent a stupid amount of money feeding my rifle to practice preseason.
 
I think Backfire has inadvertently proved just how much Distance and Recoil matters in his recent shooting range videos. He has invited out highly experienced shooters for the Backfire challenge, all with custom rifles built specifically for range work, and they are still missing. Those shots are taken in ideal settings. Prone, no timer, can range target accurately, etc. and they still miss frequently. Now add in field conditions, where adrenaline is pumping, you may be breathing hard from hiking/stalking and may or may not have a great rest. There’s a real uncomfortable truth starting to rear its head that hunters shouldn’t be shooting past 300-400 yards in most cases.
 
Today I had the opportunity to spend a half day just shooting with a buddy. We were both breaking in new pistols, so we burned ~450 rounds of 9mm a piece between zeroing 2 sets of irons, 2 red dots, and doing some basic functions check work and then just "familiarity fire" aka fun shoots making sure each magazine worked and what not. A good day.
Then we moved to shooting rifles. Never got beyond ~450 yards, me included. Our rifle season opens early, which for us, due to extra permits and whatnot, starts in mid-Sept and I haven't really shot beyond 400 or so myself since then. Although I have coached a couple of folks on our range past that. Anyways. I was AMAZED at how perishable the skills were to make first round shots beyond about my rifles rough MPBR (~350-ish for easy math). I realized that I had no business today shooting at or past 500 yards at living creatures that I respect until I can spend some time updating my skills. As stated above I am a guy who is mostly trained to do this stuff, using top shelf gear, and shooting on a range that is literally in my front yard. AKA I am the best case scenario! Yet, even under above ideal conditions that I, after a few months off of daily practice, couldn't make my own grade is a very telling example.
 
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