Is 500 yards a long shot?

[Hnthrdr]

Also the trolls from the other thread believe that it is always possible to get closer, i have seen many of situations where there is no way to get closer and still see the animal…. Ie the animal is across a canyon.

Here is a question for you? Is it ever okay for the animal to win? To beat us, to get away? To be in a spot that we can’t really get to? Or is that unacceptable?

 

[AZ_Hunter]

There's a whole bunch of "Ethical hunter" challenges on YouTube from a well known shooter. 500 yards.


Results are a bit interesting.

Might be those guys don't shoot in the wind much, but it definitely seems like they spend some time shooting.

And 99% of those guys are using match rifles. It’s not just the wind I’m sure, but the nerves of being filmed… similar to hunting… and misses are the norm.

 

[betelgeuse]

I guess I'm a Fud. I don't have to kill something. For me trying to get closer. Is all the fun. I will pass on a 500 yard shot. The bench, is not real conditions.

Sometimes ego gets in the way for some. There ethical considerations.

I don't "sling lead". Some do.

 

[MuleyFever]

Agreed.

500 yards is a long shot on an 8” target. Especially one that could move. I don’t like thinking about what happens if the animal takes a step during the time of flight. To me, the combination of time of flight and wind make 300-600 yards “long range” on game animals. Anything past that is ELR.

I absolutely will not shoot at any deer at a range further than I have recently gone 10/10 on an 8” target from that field position in those conditions. Shooting is a perishable skill and one that requires honest practice to maintain proficiency. If I can’t get within range on a deer, he “wins” and I, or someone else, get the opportunity to hunt him again another day.

There’s no exception for a so-called BOAL. Assuming a BOAL exists, I want to recover him, not have him feed coyotes and vultures.

And even if the deer is within my maximum range, if wind, terrain, and available light give me the opportunity for a stalk, then I will stalk closer. If I can make a 350 yard shot into a 220 yard shot without spooking the animal or losing the opportunity, then I will always do that. Put me in the camp of “you can almost always get closer.” I can validate my shooting ability on the range. The only way to validate my hunting ability is by recovering game animals.

I was going to say 300 is a long shot and I agree that 600 is really pushing it for almost everyone in field conditions. I also always try to get as close as I can or to within 200 yards with a rifle. A few years ago I practiced a lot at the range out to 800 yards and almost messed up a 500 yard shot on an elk, which is still my longest kill. Made a poor shot really, but got lucky that I missed in the right direction and still dropped the bull. That really taught me the difference from range to field.

 

[Smokinyotes]

Last year on Nov 26 I had a bull elk come out in the last 10 minutes of legal light. I was in my blind on my primos trigger sticks, with the trees behind him I couldn’t count points to see if he was legal and couldn’t hold steady. I had ranged him at 479 yards. 2 nights later I thought I would be ready. Brought a different rifle with a NF NXS on top. Had my gun clamped into my tripod with just the barrel and scope sticking out of the blind.
10 minutes of legal light left and the bull stepped out 57 yards on the opposite side of where my gun was pointing. Carefully and as quietly as I could I un clamped my gun, got turned around and got the window open on the North side the blind. Poked the barrel out and shot him free hand. I find it a lot more exciting when they are close and you can pick the exact spot your going to shoot.

 

[MallardSX2]

500 yards is too far for me to ethically shoot at a big game animal. I just wont do it.

 

[207North]

Before this turns into a full on anti long range bash, I have no issue with somebody that actually knows their limitations and has a high confidence taking a long shot. My ethical shot and abilities differ from the next guys.

However far too often it is a “You don’t know what you don’t know” deal.

 

[Stache Attack]

If someone is confident and proficient it’s acceptable. I’ve shot one cow farther and 3 bulls just under 500. Conditions allowed good set ups and plenty of time for them to get out of the bed. No stalking available. I prefer shots around 200-300 all day and still time to get set up.

 

[Billy Goat]

Before this turns into a full on anti long range bash, I have no issue with somebody that actually knows their limitations and has a high confidence taking a long shot. My ethical shot and abilities differ from the next guys.

However far too often it is a “You don’t know what you don’t know” deal.

My ability it not someone else's ability, and vice versa.

But there's a lot who have seen something done, which proves its possible so they think its possible for them to do it.

Then there's those who have done it, a lot, and are capable.

 

[tntrker]

Depends on the shooter..If they regularly shoot out to and past that distance, it's a cake walk. For others that only pull their rifle out for hunting season, it probably is challenging and should not be tried out on an animal..

 

[LongWayAround]

I have never shot an animal at 500+, but routinely practice well beyond that.

Regardless of shooter ability, their equipment, and the current conditions, 500 yards is a long shot on a live animal. A person being proficient and confident doesn't make it "closer."

 

[MuleyFever]

But there's a lot who have seen something done, which proves its possible so they think its possible for them to do it.

 

[blazingangel09]

I'll provide my recent personal experience. I shot my first bull elk this year at 800 yards which is much further than I had hoped to shoot. However, there were a few key factors that played into that decision and leant me the confidence to take the shot:

1) Earlier in the week, I shot a vital sized rock on the same hillside from the same shooting position at 750 yards and scored a first round hit. That provided proof positive that, at that moment, my equipment and skills were capable of making a hit at that range.
2) When I was presented a shot opportunity, it was nearly ideal conditions: the elk was very calmly feeding on the hillside and not moving, there was essentially zero wind and I was fully prone shooting off a tripod with a rear bag.
3) I had a Tikka 6.5 CM in a RokStok

All of those factors combined to give me the confidence to take a shot that I knew I could make even if it was further than I expected to shoot. I was rewarded by watching my bullet drop right into lungs and recovering the bull.

I will also note that earlier in the week I had a prior opportunity at this same bull but I passed at 700 yards because I was shooting from a seated position on a steep hillside off of trekking poles. I got crosshairs on the animal but with the position and heavy breathing from the scramble to get into position I knew it wasn't an ethical shot so I let him walk. That was an unbelievably difficult decision to make because it was my first time having an actual opportunity at an elk after several hard years of hunting and it was getting to the end of the trip. Even if I hadn't gotten my last second success I would have been glad I passed on that shot rather than risking wounding an animal that I never would have recovered.

All in all, range is just a number and it's specific conditions that dictate ethics.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Before this turns into a full on anti long range bash, I have no issue with somebody that actually knows their limitations and has a high confidence taking a long shot. My ethical shot and abilities differ from the next guys.

However far too often it is a “You don’t know what you don’t know” deal.

Agreed. I am not bashing anyone who is actually proficient at long range. As Dirty Harry said, “A man’s got to know his limitations.” The time to discover them is not on a live animal.

 

[Big_wals]

There’s no exception for a so-called BOAL. Assuming a BOAL exists, I want to recover him, not have him feed coyotes and vultures.

I can’t stand when I hear someone say “I wouldn’t shoot an animal at x yards unless it was a really big one”. Just why? Would you rather wound a 350” bull than a spike? The thought process is insane to me. The size of the antlers has zero correlation to your shooting ability, and most guys (including me) actually get more shaky when looking at a real trophy.

 

[zekepa]

At present too long for me. Don't have the confidence to take that kind of shot. 300 is max for me.

 

[TaperPin]

Hey roksliders, apparently there are a few fudds on the forum that think a 500 yard shot is sooo long and unethical for a shot. Parameters for this discussion, low to zero wind, ballistic rangefinder thats been trued out to 1000yards, shooting off a tripod with a bag or bipod prone.

Trying to use group statistics to describe individuals isn’t a very useful endever. It’s much more valuable for shooters to understand how to determine their personal limit with a given rifle. Either someone can or can’t. If someone says they can’t I believe them. If they say they can I usually doubt them.

In my adult life a 10” paper plate has always been the judge of maximum range. If someone can get a cold bore shot on the plate every time under specific weather at a given range they are good to go. While the nephew rings 500 yard plates all day, like many people, he can’t make a 500 yard cold bore shot consistently. For those without buck fever issues it’s not hard in calm conditions.

A 2 MOA target with 1-1/2 MOA shooter/rifle combo leaves a 1/4 MOA cushion to either side. Wind at the shooter isn’t the same as wind on target. I can’t tell a 2 mph wind difference 500 yards away, but that’s enough to push some shots outside the 10” kill zone. For those who are gifted and have perfect wind judging they don’t have much to worry about.

That’s assuming someone comes up on an animal and can actually shoot 1-1/2 MOA. I doubt most guys who claim that’s a slam dunk, but some shoot much better than that. Take a group of good shooting gun nut buddies prairie dog shooting and see who can hit and who can’t. It’s all out in the open for everyone to see with targets at all distances and sizes from fat sitting momma dog, to beady eyeballs just poking up from the dirt. It removes all doubt that shooters are created equal.

What there are a lot of, are overinflation of personal hit rates. How many times do people discount their first shot just off a plate, or change their wind hold after seeing a buddy shoot just before them. Some dudes get so scattered 1 out of 10 times they crank the scope the wrong direction. 1 out of 20 days at the range someone complains because they used dope for a different load. I’ve personally watched half a dozen guys have handloads fail to fire, which is every bit a mis. Dudes messing with their triggers and having a shot go off unexpectedly counts. Screwing up a magazine and sitting for three minutes getting the cartridge to feed might as well been a mile off, and the animal has probably died of boredom.
Online we primarily hear of the heroic long shots made, the skill of the shooter, how all the preparation worked out, and rarely can I ever remember the gut shot buck that got away. It’s embarrassing to mis in front of your friends so people keep it quiet.

If there is one good thing about shooting competitions it’s watching how many dudes are so far off they can’t see an impact, or the gun jams, or they crank an adjustment the wrong direction, or they are flinching, or the gun is moving so much no way can they shoot accurately. The 1 MOA at 500 Cortana challenge is full of full custom guns, shooters well used to the distance and wind, they all use kestrels, and yet many wouldn’t have hit a 2 MOA plate.

 

[Rich M]

Unethical is pulling the trigger when the probability of success is unacceptably low. For me my goal is >95% success rate (I am 9/9 deer thus far) but some would accept lower numbers but i think less than 80% is unethical in general.
So it just comes down to shooting skill. It would be unethical for me to take a > 300 yd shot currently.

I agree - when you pull the trigger you should definitely believe you are gonna hit exactly where aiming. If you aren't sure, get more range time.

 

[RockAndSage]

Also the trolls from the other thread believe that it is always possible to get closer, i have seen many of situations where there is no way to get closer and still see the animal…. Ie the animal is across a canyon.

It's always possible to get closer - it's just a matter of personal inconvenience. Indians weren't bowhunting across canyons.

But to be fair, I wouldn't want to be a bowhunter, either.

 

[S-3 ranch]

Your question is framed to get the response you want. Reality is, those conditions are rare in the field. More realistic would be, I drove non stop halfway across the country to get here, I haven’t slept good in a week, I had to hustle to get in an awkward position, and I’m shooting cross canyon in a hurry and my wind call is SWAG. I missed him on the first shot, hit him a little back on the second, got my shit together then anchored him on the third. So, in a realistic scenario, yes it’s a long shot. I know all Super Snipers on here are one shot one kill wonders, but that scenario is way closer to the reality I’ve witnessed.

500+ is a very challenging shot ! Especially after 20 hours on a plane, 8-9 hours in a Land Rover, then horse riding and walking @ 4-6000 meters altitude
With a guide speaking in a foreign language!
Much less in Wyoming with a 1000 other would be snipers or Fudds to contend with after driving 17 hours then packing in 7-10 miles