Invasive Mtn Goats in GTNP have to go

[Coach Chris]

These animals need to be removed and selling tags seems like the fiscally responsible way to achieve this.
Article
Park wants to deal with nonnative mountain goats to help bighorn sheep - Buckrail - Jackson Hole, news

Public comment
NPS PEPC - Mountain Goat Management Plan and Environmental Assessment

 

[JWP58]

Comment submitted. Maybe folks at the rocky mountain goat Alliance could get involved like they did in Washington state.

 

[MallardMaster]

These animals need to be removed and selling tags seems like the fiscally responsible way to achieve this.
Article
Park wants to deal with nonnative mountain goats to help bighorn sheep - Buckrail - Jackson Hole, news

Public comment
NPS PEPC - Mountain Goat Management Plan and Environmental Assessment

Makes too much sense to try and be fiscally responsible by creating a market on this unforeseen opportunity!! They will probably end up hiring 'sharpshooters' to come in a take care of the invasive species. They will then in turn donate the meat to an organization and destroy the trophy. I sure hope I am wrong though because this is a great opportunity for Sportsman.

 

[rickiesrevenge]

If they're gonna kill them then it makes sense to get revenue instead of spending money to do it.

 

[FlyGuy]

Yeah, sell tags for the billies, then trap and relocate all the rest.


You can’t cheat the mountain

 

[slick]

Hopefully they work something out like Theodore Roosevelt Natl Park and their elk herd situation a few years ago.

 

[sgdevries]

I agree that selling tags would both create revenue and give opportunity for a trophy species, but I have heard the argument that to do an extermination like proposed, hunters would have to shoot out Nannies and Kids, creating a pretty bad PR issue for both Game and Fish as well as hunters. Its a tight rope to walk these days.

 

[wyo]

The goats are only "invasive" in the sense that they have expanded their range. The thought of them being exterminated rather than managed just like any other Wyoming trophy game species is nauseating to me. That said, the likelihood of the National Park allowing hunters on is slim.

 

[austinphps]

To me, the combination of hunting and capturing/relocating makes the most sense. Other states could benefit from the relocation, and then hold a true raffle type tag for hunters to buy in to and hunt the rest. Would make sense, like rickiesrevenge said, if you're going to kill them, might as well make money doing so, instead of spending money to do so. However, this is national gov't we are talking about, so just because it makes sense - doesn't mean it will be done.

 

[OFFHNTN]

Yeah, sell tags for the billies, then trap and relocate all the rest.


You can’t cheat the mountain

Agreed x10.

 

[Jimss]

It certainly seems like mtn goats get a bad rap! Although mtn goats aren't native they are a great addition to the rugged high alpine slopes where they live. They also offer hunters a great opportunity to hunt an additional big game critter in gorgeous high alpine country. Is Wyo's national parks and elsewhere going to get rid of non-native brook trout, rainbow, cutthroat, brown trout and other non-native species in national parks? If you think about it, pheasants aren't native to Wyo and elsewhere and compete with other native game birds for food...should the WG&F get rid of them?

The same thing is true here in Colorado. The CPW uses helicopters and sharp shooters if goats are found in RMNP. Where mtn goats and bighorn sheep intermix outside RMNP the CPW offers an outrageous number of goat tags to try eliminating goats. I've spent a great deal of time along the Continental Divide here in Colo where goats and sheep intermingle and have never seen them interface with each other or watch goats act aggressively towards sheep. I think it's a bunch of bull honky! I've brought this up several times with the CPW and they don't have any sound evidence that this actually exists!

 

[Blockcaver]

I like goats...hunted them 4 times with my bow in Colorado and brought a couple nice billies home. That said, I’ve seen a Colorado billy aggressively run a bunch of ewes and lambs off a natural mineral lick. It does happen, but I have no idea if it is frequent enough to be detrimental to the bighorns.

I’ve never seen interaction between stone sheep and goats in BC. They live on the same mountain but the goats hang out in the extreme country and the sheep are mostly closer to a plateau where they often go graze. The goats bed on narrow ledges in the cliffs and the sheep like to bed in rock slides....etc.

 

[Silver]

I like goats...hunted them 4 times with my bow in Colorado and brought a couple nice billies home. That said, I’ve seen a Colorado billy aggressively run a bunch of ewes and lambs off a natural mineral lick. It does happen, but I have no idea if it is frequent enough to be detrimental to the bighorns.

I’ve never seen interaction between stone sheep and goats in BC. They live on the same mountain but the goats hang out in the extreme country and the sheep are mostly closer to a plateau where they often go graze. The goats bed on narrow ledges in the cliffs and the sheep like to bed in rock slides....etc.

I was thinking the same thing - seen lots of cases where they’re in the same drainage and don’t interact with each other whatsoever. I’m sure it’s different in a higher-interface area but I was surprised to read this - learn something new every day.

I struggle with the idea that one species needs to be eradicated from an area to benefit another. For years we’ve had large moose hunts in certain areas to benefit the mountain caribou herds. The thinking is fewer moose means predators moving out which helps the caribou. So far it hasn’t worked out that way. Without managing all species together I’m not sure we can meet population goals.

Ok, I’m done with the armchair biology

 

[Runningwater]

There is also still some debate as to their "native" status in various states and mountain ranges. We're in an interglacial period that began about 10,000 years ago. If you assume receding glaciers for thousands of years to where we are today - its likely their range was larger than it is today or was at the time of European contact. I believe their is fossil evidence of a smaller sub, or more likely a sister species that existed in the southern rockies during the last glacier period.

 

[Jimss]

Runningwater, do you know what state or states they found the sister species?

 

[slick]

Oreamnos harringtoni lived in the southern rockies. Fossils have been found in Colorado, Utah, Nevada, Arizona, and New Mexico.

I think the biggest issue isn’t the aggressive behavior but the increased potential for disease transmission to sheep.

 

[weatherbow21]

Comment submitted. Maybe folks at the rocky mountain goat Alliance could get involved like they did in Washington state.

How did the goat alliance get involved with whats happening in the Olympics? If anything they helped support it. I told Peter last year at the sheep show if we start removing "non native" goats its going down a slippery slope, and I don't just mean when it comes to goats.

 

[tipsntails7]

How did the goat alliance get involved with whats happening in the Olympics? If anything they helped support it. I told Peter last year at the sheep show if we start removing "non native" goats its going down a slippery slope, and I don't just mean when it comes to goats.

From my understanding they worked to get the tiered implementation of capturing and possible hunting in the later tiers if i am not mistaken intstead of the NP just going and shooting them all.

If these goats didn't reside in a National park there wouldn't be an issue. But NP's have strict rules on what can and cant be in their park.

 

[weatherbow21]

From my understanding they worked to get the tiered implementation of capturing and possible hunting in the later tiers if i am not mistaken intstead of the NP just going and shooting them all.

If these goats didn't reside in a National park there wouldn't be an issue. But NP's have strict rules on what can and cant be in their park.

I don't know, I talked to Peter at the sheep show and he made it sound like they had basically no involvement other than buying a couple tracking collars for the relocated goats. There are also a good number of goats outside the park, my whole life its been a huntable population and this is the first year its not an available hunt to apply for. Another opportunity we've lost as hunters, and we're not going to get it back

 

[tipsntails7]

I don't know, I talked to Peter at the sheep show and he made it sound like they had basically no involvement other than buying a couple tracking collars for the relocated goats. There are also a good number of goats outside the park, my whole life its been a huntable population and this is the first year its not an available hunt to apply for. Another opportunity we've lost as hunters, and we're not going to get it back

Thats interesting i thought they had more involvement then that but clearly im mistaken , I agree with you completely, I personally dont like it, but also am friends with people who have and do work for the park service, and their hands are pretty well tied in these situation from what i understand.

I dont think there are enough goats, especially in the lower 48, so I hate to see populations eradicated.