Insulated vs non insulated pad

[TravisIN]

My pad is uninsulated and am debating weather or not I should get an insulated? I have a bag, not a quilt and use a tyvek ground cloth. Are they worth the weight and what is a minimum r value you would look for?


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[GotDraw?]

It would be helpful to understand when, where (area and elevation) and how (truck, tent, hammock) you plan to hunt.

If you want folks to invest time in giving you a solid answer, then invest time and thought in crafting a well posed question.

Well posed, specific questions get specific, well considered answers

 

[zloomis]

This is a good article from Thermarest. https://thermarestblog.com/r-value-meaning/

If you are out in cold weather R value is important even in a bag.

 

[willfrye027]

In my experience, you need insulation if the temps are down in the 30s. Obviously there are a lot of factors especially your bag temp rating, but overall when it’s below 40 degrees i feel like the insulation is needed.

 

[Adam Gibbs]

Kind of along the same lines as the OP, but if I have a non insulated inflatable pad is there anything I can or should add above or below it to give it a bit more insulation during colder temps?

 

[TravisIN]

It would be helpful to understand when, where (area and elevation) and how (truck, tent, hammock) you plan to hunt.

If you want folks to invest time in giving you a solid answer, then invest time and thought in crafting a well posed question.

Well posed, specific questions get specific, well considered answers

Yea so I guess a take for granted that it’s an understanding that when I asked about weight that people would know I was talking about backpack hunting, and that saying I use a tyvek ground cloth people would know I was running a floor less shelter. I didn’t mention my main location of use because I was thinking in broad terms when I asked the question. I tend to get very lengthy when I get going on here and feel like I ramble and can circle the topic many times before actually get to the point. Haha like I’m doing here. But anyways, Mainly southern Colorado between 11-12k in sept. And curious if people have a minimum r value where they start to actually notice a difference.


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[TravisIN]

This is a good article from Thermarest. https://thermarestblog.com/r-value-meaning/

If you are out in cold weather R value is important even in a bag.

Good article. Gonna have to do some checking on the pads I’m looking at to see if the estimate or actually test their r values. The specs on the insulated pad I am looking are 27x78x3.5, 31oz, with a listed r-value of 6.5


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[willfrye027]

In the summer I use a pad with r value 2.2, but as soon as it gets down in the 30’s I bring my other pad with r value around 3.5 (my best guess, it’s discontinued now). This is not very scientific but it’s what works for me. I’ve noticed a big difference using the lighter pad in the winter even though on paper the r value is not bad.

 

[BigCountry344]

Good article. Gonna have to do some checking on the pads I’m looking at to see if the estimate or actually test their r values. The specs on the insulated pad I am looking are 27x78x3.5, 31oz, with a listed r-value of 6.5


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Which pad is it?

 

[Brad@Argali]

Yea so I guess a take for granted that it’s an understanding that when I asked about weight that people would know I was talking about backpack hunting, and that saying I use a tyvek ground cloth people would know I was running a floor less shelter. I didn’t mention my main location of use because I was thinking in broad terms when I asked the question. I tend to get very lengthy when I get going on here and feel like I ramble and can circle the topic many times before actually get to the point. Haha like I’m doing here. But anyways, Mainly southern Colorado between 11-12k in sept. And curious if people have a minimum r value where they start to actually notice a difference.


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It's your bag and your pad together you should think about. Insulated is relative term, and r values are not all created equally as of now (there is no governing body for them currently, but that is changing very soon). As a starting point, If it's around freezing an r value of at least 3 is good place to start (something like the neoair xlite), and if it dips into the low 20's or teens, you'll want something like the neoair xtherm, which is closer to an r value 6. That's all assuming you have a good sleeping bag. And your ground cloth wont do anything to ad warmth to your pad.

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[GotDraw?]

agree with @Brad@Argali above.

Sept archery, I hunt the same area and elevation as you and have historically used an insulated Big Agnes pad, but it is not warm enough once temps hit 20. I am upgrading to a Thermarest NeoAir Xthem this year. I would want a minimum of R 4 for archery at your elevation and probably (as I have learned) be happier with an R6.

JL

 

[TravisIN]

Which pad is it?

The new Klymit v luxe sL


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[TravisIN]

It's your bag and your pad together you should think about. Insulated is relative term, and r values are not all created equally as of now (there is no governing body for them currently, but that is changing very soon). As a starting point, If it's around freezing an r value of at least 3 is good place to start (something like the neoair xlite), and if it dips into the low 20's or teens, you'll want something like the neoair xtherm, which is closer to an r value 6. That's all assuming you have a good sleeping bag. And your ground cloth wont do anything to ad warmth to your pad.

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Ok I thought I’d heard somewhere that the ground cloth would help some so I threw it out there. Bag is a WM terralite with some overfill.


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[Brad@Argali]

Ok I thought I’d heard somewhere that the ground cloth would help some so I threw it out there. Bag is a WM terralite with some overfill.


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Honestly, I think a neoair xlite would work just fine for you, but an xtherm would certainly keep you warm enough. I use an xtherm in late September and into early November even. Xtherm or similar pad would definitely have you covered.

 

[willfrye027]

It’s pretty miserable when your sleep system is not warm enough for the conditions. I would play it safe and bring a warmer pad.

 

[jhm2023]

I've spent plenty enough nights freezing my butt off because I chose to carry a lighter weight un-insulated pad, even with a 0 degree bag. As I got a little older I started to realize that a few more ounces for that insulation paid huge dividends in quality sleep. The energy you gain from a night of good sleep far outweighs the energy saved by shedding a few ounces. Keep in mind the bag's insulation under your body compresses and doesn't really do much for you at all and the ground will suck the heat right out of you regardless of your bag's rating. The ground cloth only serves to protect from ground moisture not thermal issues. Hunt hard, sleep well, repeat.

 

[Beendare]

IME, I would never buy a non insulated pad...that insulation is crucial.

 

[Jimbob]

An uninsulated pad would be colder than just sleeping on the ground. Convection currents inside the air pad just take out all the heat and never let it warm-up. If you were sleeping directly on the ground it would absorb your heat and actually warm up a bit. People think that getting up off the cold ground will keep you warm but without insulation its actually colder. This is why hammocks are known for being cold. When sleeping in a hammock you need an insulated pad or a quilt under the hammock so the air doesn't just take the heat away. Insulation is just dead air space, doesn't let the heat escape.

I have always been fine with an r value of 3.5 in the fall. In the winter time I just add a closed cell foam and put it over my insulated inflatable.

I want to pick up the new Thermarest uberlight for July/August hikes/hunts r value of 2. Then stick with a xlite for fall.
My family hikes so I need enough gear for everyone in the summer, that means multiple bags and pads. What I do is buy gear that works in multiple seasons. When I go as a family in the summer it works for everyone. When I go alone on hunts in the summer/fall I can pick what gear fits the conditions.

 

[5MilesBack]

Honestly, I think a neoair xlite would work just fine for you, but an xtherm would certainly keep you warm enough.

I froze on top of an Xlite in the middle of summer with lows in the 50's. But my Xtherm works well through September, and then it's time for my Exped Downmat 9.

 

[Brad@Argali]

I froze on top of an Xlite in the middle of summer with lows in the 50's. But my Xtherm works well through September, and then it's time for my Exped Downmat 9.

That's wild. What bag did you have? I've used an xlite down into the teens at night. Not ideal for temps that low, but anything down to 30 degrees or so and it has worked just fine for me.

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