Indoor Archery

[Evol]

Anyone shoot indoors seriously? Building a bow and have a few questions.

I trust people here more than AT.

Thanks!

 

[Billy Goat]

Relatively seriously.

 

[3forks]

Me too, on relatively seriously.

Posting your specific questions would be helpful, but I’ll preface any advice or relatable experiences I could provide by telling you a a target bow and competition archery is a total rat hole…

I‘m not trying to discourage you at all, but you probably already know that at certain point - you can’t buy accuracy. A target specific setup (“rig” if you wear a flat brim) most likely will help to improve your scores a few points if you’re already a pretty accomplished archer, but it may take you a while to get there.

Take for example cams. Cams on target bows and the percent of let-off they are designed with differs quite a bit from a bow hunter set up.

In general, target bows have cams designed with much lower let-offs and very little valley compared to hunting bows. So, if you aren‘t really pulling strongly into the back wall, or you shoot your hunting bow with a high let-off and find that you’re creeping when getting the shot to break, you’re going to have a difficult time shooting a target bow (At least until you correct your shot process). Also, while you typically shoot a target bow with lower limb poundage, you will want to try to get the holding weight of your target bow to what you‘ve been shooting on your hunting bow. You’re most likely going to find yourself being gassed from trying to shoot a target bow well until you get used to the jumpier cams.

All that being said, there are cams on target bows that can be pretty forgiving, but in my opinion, if you‘re choosing that option, you my as well just shoot your hunting bow. Sure things like long risers and bars with more weight translate to better accuracy in target archery, but they’re not going to be so dramatic that you’ll immediately be shooting way higher scores indoors. In my opinion, the difference between a target archery and bow hunting is the emphasis on the shot process, consistency, and the higher but less forgiving tolerances associated with target specific equipment. When you’re shot breaks perfectly with a target set up, the accuracy is amazing, but if you aren‘t shooting at a very high level of proficiency, your flaws are going to really be magnified.

Certainly, a bow hunter can be very accurate and have a great shot process, but there’s a degree of concentration and focus that is required in competition archery that target specific equipment allows high level archers to take advantage of as opposed to bow hunting where the emphasis is on accuracy and forgiveness.

Anyway, there‘s way more to it - but in general - be prepared to potentially shoot lower scores until you figure out a target specific set up.

The other main issue is that a lot of shops don’t have a ton of experience with target bows and scopes, stabilizers, etc. and don’t stock much either so it’s difficult to try anything before you buy. Figuring out what works for you involves trial and error even if you try to use it what generally works for a lot of people. That part can be expensive.

Again, I wouldn’t try to discourage anyone from getting a target specific setup, but you can most likely shoot your hunting bow and get a higher score in any game versus getting a target bow and shooting it enough until you can start getting the benefit of its specific functionality.

 

[Billy Goat]

Me too, on relatively seriously.

Posting your specific questions would be helpful, but I’ll preface any advice or relatable experiences I could provide by telling you a a target bow and competition archery is a total rat hole…

I‘m not trying to discourage you at all, but you probably already know that at certain point - you can’t buy accuracy. A target specific setup (“rig” if you wear a flat brim) most likely will help to improve your scores a few points if you’re already a pretty accomplished archer, but it may take you a while to get there.

Take for example cams. Cams on target bows and the percent of let-off they are designed with differs quite a bit from a bow hunter set up.

In general, target bows have cams designed with much lower let-offs and very little valley compared to hunting bows. So, if you aren‘t really pulling strongly into the back wall, or you shoot your hunting bow with a high let-off and find that you’re creeping when getting the shot to break, you’re going to have a difficult time shooting a target bow (At least until you correct your shot process). Also, while you typically shoot a target bow with lower limb poundage, you will want to try to get the holding weight of your target bow to what you‘ve been shooting on your hunting bow. You’re most likely going to find yourself being gassed from trying to shoot a target bow well until you get used to the jumpier cams.

All that being said, there are cams on target bows that can be pretty forgiving, but in my opinion, if you‘re choosing that option, you my as well just shoot your hunting bow. Sure things like long risers and bars with more weight translate to better accuracy in target archery, but they’re not going to be so dramatic that you’ll immediately be shooting way higher scores indoors. In my opinion, the difference between a target archery and bow hunting is the emphasis on the shot process, consistency, and the higher but less forgiving tolerances associated with target specific equipment. When you’re shot breaks perfectly with a target set up, the accuracy is amazing, but if you aren‘t shooting at a very high level of proficiency, your flaws are going to really be magnified.

Certainly, a bow hunter can be very accurate and have a great shot process, but there’s a degree of concentration and focus that is required in competition archery that target specific equipment allows high level archers to take advantage of as opposed to bow hunting where the emphasis is on accuracy and forgiveness.

Anyway, there‘s way more to it - but in general - be prepared to potentially shoot lower scores until you figure out a target specific set up.

The other main issue is that a lot of shops don’t have a ton of experience with target bows and scopes, stabilizers, etc. and don’t stock much either so it’s difficult to try anything before you buy. Figuring out what works for you involves trial and error even if you try to use it what generally works for a lot of people. That part can be expensive.

Again, I wouldn’t try to discourage anyone from getting a target specific setup, but you can most likely shoot your hunting bow and get a higher score in any game versus getting a target bow and shooting it enough until you can start getting the benefit of its specific functionality.

He ain't wrong.


I just don't like changing much. So I have bows that are pretty specific. I have 2 hunting compounds, one higher weight, one lower weight for late season. Two target bows, one setup specific for indoors, while another that is my outdoor bow but I swap rests, sights, and arrows depending on the game that is being shot.


Really I can pick any of them up and shoot pretty close to the same scores on anything. But when you compete a few points can be a large spread.

 

[3forks]

He ain't wrong.


I just don't like changing much. So I have bows that are pretty specific. I have 2 hunting compounds, one higher weight, one lower weight for late season. Two target bows, one setup specific for indoors, while another that is my outdoor bow but I swap rests, sights, and arrows depending on the game that is being shot.


Really I can pick any of them up and shoot pretty close to the same scores on anything. But when you compete a few points can be a large spread.

It’s a good point, and I agree on a few points being a large spread.

I think the biggest bang for your buck, and definite advantage for indoors is shooting a large diameter target arrow.

I shot my first 300 5 spot game with my hunting bow and micro diameter arrows. I would have arrived at a 300 score much, much sooner if I had caught more lines by using a larger diameter target arrow.

That being said, while marginal gains through something like arrow selection would improve your score, it’s only helping on relatively “good - bad” shots. Going back to my example, I still needed improve my shot if I was going to eliminate the fine line between a larger arrow diameter helping me shoot the magic 300 game versus just my skill getting me there.

 

[Billy Goat]

It’s a good point, and I agree on a few points being a large spread.

I think the biggest bang for your buck, and definite advantage for indoors is shooting a large diameter target arrow.

I shot my first 300 5 spot game with my hunting bow and micro diameter arrows. I would have arrived at a 300 score much, much sooner if I had caught more lines by using a larger diameter target arrow.

That being said, while marginal gains through something like arrow selection would improve your score, it’s only helping on relatively “good - bad” shots. Going back to my example, I still needed improve my shot if I was going to eliminate the fine line between a larger arrow diameter helping me shoot the magic 300 game versus just my skill getting me there.

That's assuming large diameter arrows fly the same. They can be a lot more difficult to get to fly as well. I have pretty well settled on 23 sized shafts.

Plus a faster arrow is more forgiving to form flaws than a heavy arrow. Talking a 700+ grain arrow versus a 350-400 gr. If you drop your arm on the shot, that arrow is coming off the bow a lot slower.


The mind set is that a larger arrow would have caught that line, in reality a lot of times that larger arrow wouldn't have flown as true. I know I'll almost always shoot a better Vegas round with a 23 over a 26 or 27, but I don't have enough poundage to push those bigger shafts as well. So it can be dependent.


Now, trying to use micros for indoors ain't a great idea, so if your hunting arrow is a .204 or a .166 I can see a larger shaft helping some, like @3forks had said. But I think for 5 spot most won't benefit from a 26, or 23 over a "standard" .244-.246 shaft.

 

[Evol]

Relatively seriously.

Me too, on relatively seriously.

Posting your specific questions would be helpful, but I’ll preface any advice or relatable experiences I could provide by telling you a a target bow and competition archery is a total rat hole…

I‘m not trying to discourage you at all, but you probably already know that at certain point - you can’t buy accuracy. A target specific setup (“rig” if you wear a flat brim) most likely will help to improve your scores a few points if you’re already a pretty accomplished archer, but it may take you a while to get there.

Take for example cams. Cams on target bows and the percent of let-off they are designed with differs quite a bit from a bow hunter set up.

In general, target bows have cams designed with much lower let-offs and very little valley compared to hunting bows. So, if you aren‘t really pulling strongly into the back wall, or you shoot your hunting bow with a high let-off and find that you’re creeping when getting the shot to break, you’re going to have a difficult time shooting a target bow (At least until you correct your shot process). Also, while you typically shoot a target bow with lower limb poundage, you will want to try to get the holding weight of your target bow to what you‘ve been shooting on your hunting bow. You’re most likely going to find yourself being gassed from trying to shoot a target bow well until you get used to the jumpier cams.

All that being said, there are cams on target bows that can be pretty forgiving, but in my opinion, if you‘re choosing that option, you my as well just shoot your hunting bow. Sure things like long risers and bars with more weight translate to better accuracy in target archery, but they’re not going to be so dramatic that you’ll immediately be shooting way higher scores indoors. In my opinion, the difference between a target archery and bow hunting is the emphasis on the shot process, consistency, and the higher but less forgiving tolerances associated with target specific equipment. When you’re shot breaks perfectly with a target set up, the accuracy is amazing, but if you aren‘t shooting at a very high level of proficiency, your flaws are going to really be magnified.

Certainly, a bow hunter can be very accurate and have a great shot process, but there’s a degree of concentration and focus that is required in competition archery that target specific equipment allows high level archers to take advantage of as opposed to bow hunting where the emphasis is on accuracy and forgiveness.

Anyway, there‘s way more to it - but in general - be prepared to potentially shoot lower scores until you figure out a target specific set up.

The other main issue is that a lot of shops don’t have a ton of experience with target bows and scopes, stabilizers, etc. and don’t stock much either so it’s difficult to try anything before you buy. Figuring out what works for you involves trial and error even if you try to use it what generally works for a lot of people. That part can be expensive.

Again, I wouldn’t try to discourage anyone from getting a target specific setup, but you can most likely shoot your hunting bow and get a higher score in any game versus getting a target bow and shooting it enough until you can start getting the benefit of its specific functionality.

Thanks, I've been using my 3d bow and shooting Lancaster style around ~300-307/330. 3D bow is a inline 5/5 pin/gt22/drop away.

I bought a PSE target bow, pro blade, axcel sight/UV scope and 4x lens and going to try some stabilizers. I shoot pretty low let off on my 3d bow since I load it up pretty heavy.

I need to start building some arrows and that's really where my confusion lies for me. Not sure if I'm going to like using a blade but he gave it to me with the bow.

Any opinion on aluminum vs carbon arrows? 27 vs 25 vs 23. (leaning towards the 23 as Billy Goat stated above) I feel like I should go with carbon arrows, either 23 vs 25. How do you all cut them and point weight etc. I'm pretty comfortable building hunting arrows but this is another world to me.

For those that use a lens, is that worth it? Should I go higher? Any best practices here?

100% on the rat hole aspect. Building a hunting bow is much simpler IMO. I'm lucky that I live close to a really good shop (LAS) and once I get dialed in I'm going to get some lessons with this specific bow. I've been focusing on my shot process, shooting a hinge, etc over the past few months and want to take it to the next level. I took a big score hit when I started shooting my hinge but now i'm better than I was so I'm not worried about sacrificing some now to gain later.

 

[Billy Goat]

I'm a fan of a blade rest. They seem to be most forgiving to me, like for a dip bang.


I prefer carbon, cause of the weight issues I talked about earlier. A friend told me you need poundage to shoot aluminum, and from what I played with I believe him. If you are going to shoot 60# indoors I would consider aluminum, I shoot 49#. Arrow tuning for others I have still had to nock tune to get aluminum to hit same hole, so I'm not sure they are actually more consistent like the common thought is.


I have tried stiff spines in carbon, they didn't work well for me either. I'm back to shooting appropriately spine arrow for my setup. I'll load point weight to an extent to break spine down, assuming I don't get too heavy. With my 49# 28.5 draw I have found 400gr or less to work for me the best. Generally around 27-28". I know a lot of guys that are way stiff, and they shoot well. I just don't find it forgiving. I think nock tuning isn't as important as you go stiffer, but haven't played with it enough to really confirm it.


I don't use a lens indoor. It's not something I feel I can really benefit from and the more magnification you have, the more movement you see. Also why I use a bigger fiber. The larger the dot or fiber, the slower the movement appears.

If you are going long bars I'd recommend doing things one at a time. Either shoot no magnification for a while til you really get comfortable with the longer bars, or shoot a short bar setup while adjusting to a lense. Long bars take a little longer to settle down, you get more movement when you get to full draw for a moment before they settle in.


I think a whole lot of what you want is just dependent. Depends on your poundage and draw length, depends on what you are actually comfortable with. I know guys who shoot same scores with a bowhunter setup as an open setup, so it's not for everyone. I go back and forth a lot, shoot a lot of bowhunter indoors, full open when I go outside.