Idaho Unit 22 History/Downfall

[WeiserBucks]

@WeiserBucks no doubt that happens a lot. That's a general unit where they could shoot any buck though. That overlap of seasons is much less in unit 22 (excluded from the cow hunt) and basically non existent in 40. The demographic that I see who go specifically to a 2 point only unit without other tags in their pocket aren't going to work super hard or be the most effective hunters.

I don't think the doe hunt makes sense for that unit either.

I agree 100%, I was just mentioning what took place during the 5 years of the rifle cow tag coinciding with the gen deer season. It obviously hasn't always been that way and the elk season structure is different starting this year moving forward. Like I said I'm no expert just mentioning a few factors in a specific time frame. I'm really interested in the opinions of those more educated and experienced than myself. I'm a deer nut, just not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

 

[Customweld]

I'm not sure I agree with this statement completely, at least not over the last 5 years of the W.R. A tag being valid for rifle cow elk during the same timeframe as the general deer hunt. I saw plenty of folks working hard for cow elk and shooting deer that they even admitted would have never happened without the seasons coinciding, alot them said they simply wouldn't even be in the unit without rifle elk tags and deer were added to the hit list because "why not maximize the potential for success of any kind." Most of those same hunters had a long history of hunting the W.R. B tag which obviously takes place after the general deer season had closed and felt it wasn't worth the expense, effort or missed work to come earlier and hunt a 2 point without an elk tag in their pocket.

Plenty of guys also drug their kids and wives out to have more elk tags in camp and of course they also had deer tags, the majority of wife/kid demographic didn't work hard for elk at all, but they whacked plenty of easily found does and 2 points and some their elk tags got filled one way or another. Just another factor to ponder, I'm no biologist but my eyes work just fine and I saw it first hand the whole time that the rifle cow elk and general deer seasons coincided.

That otc cow tag in the WR resulted in a lot of forkies being hunted. I’m glad to see that they changed it this year, not only for the elk but it will make 22 less of a deer hunt destination as well.

 

[WeiserBucks]

That otc cow tag in the WR resulted in a lot of forkies being hunted. I’m glad to see that they changed it this year, not only for the elk but it will make 22 less of a deer hunt destination as well.

That was exactly my observation.

 

[7mm-08]

LOTS of interesting opinions and information in this thread regarding mule deer management. I'm not sure I trust the Idaho Department of Fish and Game's commitment to ground truth its mule deer management strategies. Rather, it just crunches data from check stations, harvest reports and collars without "wasting" biologists' time getting into the field and doing research in the form of interviewing hunters and making personal observations. It sounds to me that the knowledgeable Idaho folks on this forum ought to be talking to our commissioners to effect change.

 

[littlebigtine]

LOTS of interesting opinions and information in this thread regarding mule deer management. I'm not sure I trust the Idaho Department of Fish and Game's commitment to ground truth its mule deer management strategies. Rather, it just crunches data from check stations, harvest reports and collars without "wasting" biologists' time getting into the field and doing research in the form of interviewing hunters and making personal observations. It sounds to me that the knowledgeable Idaho folks on this forum ought to be talking to our commissioners to effect change.

I think the main point here is that buck hunting does very little to the overall health of a deer population. In fact, in many ways, killing bucks can be beneficial to the health of a deer herd. Doe and fawn survival will always be what defines the actual health of a deer herd and the future of deer in a particular area. It doesn’t take many bucks to breed the does in a particular area and as long as the does are all being bred, the deer populations has the potential to increase. Weather is then the main controlling factor everywhere. Buck hunting changes the structure of the deer population, but doesn’t do very much to control how many deer will be on the landscape in the future.

what does everybody think about limiting success, but keeping opportunities in central idaho units with most traffic and likely some of the best habitat? might be more exciting to see some older age class running around with a bow in hand personally.

 

[WeiserBucks]

what does everybody think about limiting success, but keeping opportunities in central idaho units with most traffic and likely some of the best habitat? might be more exciting to see some older age class running around with a bow in hand personally.

No.

 

[Customweld]

Another thing to keep in mind: When a lot of those trophy class bucks were coming out of Adams County, the deer season was late October through early November. I don’t remember exactly when elk and deer season were flopped. Maybe ‘88 or ‘90. A lot of local guys put the hurt on them after work in November.

 

[jimmy33]

I don’t hunt Unit 22 but I do hunt units close to there. I can assure you that there are really nice deer in those units. I see nice bucks every time I am there. Ive also never gone a season without filling my tags or tags if I have a couple of them. I cant speak for numbers from “back in the day” but I can say that the biologist assures me that its near carrying capacity. Obviously these areas took an overall numbers hit from 2016 but there are still hunt-able populations for sure. We do not under any circumstances want to start limiting opportunity. What Ive noticed and you can take it to the bank is the old cliche that 5% of the hunters kill 95% of the deer. My suggestion is that if you aren’t killing deer, learn how to. I can guarantee that if you become a better hunter, limiting opportunity wont be something you want to discuss.


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[littlebigtine]

No.

do you at least agree that at some point something will have to give as far as limiting general season rifle deer in idaho. harvest will outpace recruitment at some point right? am i crazy to be ok with taking a unit with 2000 annual rifle deer hunters, putting a 1200 otc quota on it, first come first serve, and then having an unlimited bow season early and maybe a week or so into november? it would be just like elk… why is that so outrageous? I think there is a way to have more quality age class AND hunting while keeping opportunities in place.

 

[WeiserBucks]

I've got a few ideas, but non of them are realistic and probably won't work short or long term. 99.7% of us just know what we see in the field and what we want, but we honestly don't have the required knowledge or experience to successfully manage muleys. On the other hand I'm not sure the top brass at F&G does either.

 

[littlebigtine]

I've got a few ideas, but non of them are realistic and probably won't work short or long term. 99.7% of us just know what we see in the field and what we want, but we honestly don't have the required knowledge or experience to successfully manage muleys. On the other hand I'm not sure the top brass at F&G does either.

i dont see rational thinking or hard number based science in having an unlimited season on a species that is fragile, in a growing state and without limits to developing technology. i am hyperbolizing a bit but when you boil it down it really just seems lazy to me. elk obviously are the focus. i just feel change coming and id rather be a voice in the conversation. i love to hunt and i love just looking at animals as well and i just dont believe that deer should be portrayed as this unlimited food resource that is any idahoan with a 6.5 creedmoors(lol) god given right without some sense in the matter and work to deserve it. i do appreciate that you guys at least are willing to talk about what you see and what you think because without all of our effort itll be a bad outcome in the future.

 

[IDMuleyKid]

Another thing to keep in mind: When a lot of those trophy class bucks were coming out of Adams County, the deer season was late October through early November. I don’t remember exactly when elk and deer season were flopped. Maybe ‘88 or ‘90. A lot of local guys put the hurt on them after work in November.

Certainly an underrated factor for why so many mature bucks got killed back then, otc rifle hunts in the rut. Bonneville county was the same back then, november rifle hunts.

Perhaps Colorado receives an artificial bump in big buck numbers due to 3rd season rifle.

 

[Andrew12gauge]

i dont see rational thinking or hard number based science in having an unlimited season on a species that is fragile, in a growing state and without limits to developing technology. i am hyperbolizing a bit but when you boil it down it really just seems lazy to me. elk obviously are the focus. i just feel change coming and id rather be a voice in the conversation. i love to hunt and i love just looking at animals as well and i just dont believe that deer should be portrayed as this unlimited food resource that is any idahoan with a 6.5 creedmoors(lol) god given right without some sense in the matter and work to deserve it. i do appreciate that you guys at least are willing to talk about what you see and what you think because without all of our effort itll be a bad outcome in the future.

I’ve been making a push to try and get support for a zone type tag for residents, maybe we can alleviate a little bit of pressure and shift harvest to areas that may be able to handle more while limiting it in areas where the herd may not be doing as well. It works pretty well for elk, why couldn’t it work for deer?


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