I have found the elk on public land!

[Hnthrdr]

This is the exact reason I have always preferred private land hunting. I love the idea of hunting public and the whole experience of doing wilderness stuff, but at the end of the day a huge part of any hunt isn't man versus beast, it's man versus man, unless you get a really high-quality tag.

Eh… yes and no. Some years you get lucky and get elk all to yourself. I will generally get a handful of days during archery or a couple during muzzy where I am not in competition, I will also move a lot to seek out areas where I don’t have it some times, few years back killed a bull about 500 yards from some guys who killed one in a spot I like 2 days prior to me so don’t get too discouraged. If you see other trucks parked off the road or trail head…

 

[Chris in TN]

How old is your kid and how much background do you have in back packing? I would highly advise against it. Unless you spend loads of time in the mountains, are acclimated and have a bunch of packing/ meat preservation experience you will set yourself up for disappointment or worse. Loads of elk get killed w/in a mile of a road, don’t know anyone who would attempt 17 mile packout without pack animals or cold weather and days to do it. Also most of these units are so busy the backcountry can be just as crowded as the closer areas

She is 13. Without going into a long speech, I genuinely appreciate the things you're saying and am taking them in the spirit they're being offered in, and I mean that, but we are decently prepared, we are continuing to prepare, we have plans in place for a packer, and the 17 mile figure was meant as a joke. I wouldn't think twice about taking her 5 miles in if the trail was halfway decent. I've already spoken to a packer in the unit. Deboning an elk and moving the meat a mile or so to a shady spot near a trail doesn't particularly worry me, unless the weather was abnormally warm. I packed a deer out well over a mile a couple years ago and it was nothing. Certainly, a mile in TN isn't the same as a mile in CO, but I'll sum up by saying I do not believe I'm being reckless in this regard.

 

[Chris in TN]

Eh… yes and no. Some years you get lucky and get elk all to yourself. I will generally get a handful of days during archery or a couple during muzzy where I am not in competition, I will also move a lot to seek out areas where I don’t have it some times, few years back killed a bull about 500 yards from some guys who killed one in a spot I like 2 days prior to me so don’t get too discouraged. If you see other trucks parked off the road or trail head…

I'm telling myself to have the attitude that if I see other trucks there, someone thinks elk are there.

 

[Chris in TN]

Also - Don't get me wrong - I don't want to shoot an elk any further from the road than I have to. I just don't trust my own ability to find those little hidden holes next to the roads just yet.

 

[grfox92]

Thank you. I need to hear this stuff.

Also, am I correct that if Plan A is to backpack deep into a particular unit when most of my hunting options lie in one general area (or one slope of a few thousand acres), I should either ditch that plan, or commit to only hunting that for perhaps one day - like hike in Tuesday AM, scout midday very lightly (after having scouted other spots that, for the purpose of discussion, held nothing, let's pretend), set up camp, hunt Wednesday opening day, then perhaps hunt the next AM and hunt our way back out and be in a different area (not necessarily miles away, just 'different' as in 'the next spot') by the afternoon of the second day?

Thus far our plans have hinged around hiking into one spot for 3-5 days. It seems like even if we do that it would be a mistake to stay there - if we aren't on elk by day 2, leave. Or if we get on elk and haven't killed one by day 2, we've probably spooked them anyway, or they being elk, might have left just for fun.

Right?

Part of me loves the idea of backpacking deep into a wilderness blah blah blah. But the shorter that trip is the less junk I have to haul in and I see several advantages there.

At the same time it seems fairly likely that I could stay in a spot that had elk sign but no elk, and it's fairly possible that a herd could show up, whether from pressure or just because elk like to travel, on day 3-4, right?

I had a long conversation with a guide several years ago that shared that it was pretty common to have drop camp hunters get frustrated and leave then spook elk on the way out because they just were too impatient, or expecting to see them every day like deer. Or even because sometimes first rifle season causes a 4-day shuffle and when they begin to settle back down they show up again.

This past September we backpacked 7 miles into one particular area for a 3 day hunt. We got into some elk but nothing spectacular.

One of the days very far off trail we wound up at the top of a mountain overlooking a huge basin of different drainages. There were 8 different bulls bugling down there. However, it was too far down, steep and nasty to go down there and kill. We would never get a bull out of there before it spoiled.

So we made a plan to go into a different trailhead the next weekend and go find those bulls.

We loaded a mule with panniers and all of our shit and lead him 9, yes 9 actual miles into the back country to get to the drainage that those bulls were in the weekend before. We found a camp, picketed the mule, strapped on our pack and went.

Out of the 8 bulls that were in there the previous weekend, zero remained. There were no elk. To top it off, the terrain was 20 year old burn with 6 ft pine trees growing amongst all the blowdown from the burn.

So what we did, was re load the panniers, pack our shit, and walked the 9 miles back out.

I wouldn't hang out anywhere hoping elk will show up. You have to go find them.

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[Chris in TN]

Nine miles back out is a loooong way. Maybe longer empty than packing an elk.

 

[grfox92]

Nine miles back out is a loooong way. Maybe longer empty than packing an elk.

Yes it is trust me. That was in September. Last weekend I walked out 12 miles after I hurt my back in a horse wreck. That was half way into the thorofare.

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[grfox92]

Nine miles back out is a loooong way. Maybe longer empty than packing an elk.

We also had a few more mules available to bring in if we killed.

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[UKwildcatfan]

The elk will bed down from 10/11 to 3 every day. Remember, you'll blow them out scouting or beating around during the day. Have a plan to get meat out in case you are successful.

 

[wapitibob]

I've found almost every out of state Elk spot I've hunted, from my recliner; you will do just fine e-scouting. Don't put much stock in the usual internet comments like, Elk are only in the dark timber, only on north slopes, only at a certain elevation band, hunt at least 1 mile from the road, atv's will run them out of the country, or my favorite, they bed down by 7 after a full moon.
While a bit simplistic, "Elk are where you find them" is the one truth when hunting them.

Standing in the road, no dark timber, no north slope, and atv's galore ...

 

[Indian Summer]

I have killed a boatload of elk below 7500 feet, less than a mile from the road, where I had no cell signal. lol

 

[spike camp]

I have, for most of my adult life, been involved in fields that all sort of revolve around making or using map/GIS data. And at the moment I have a fair bit of free time. I'm sitting here right now gawking at aerial photos while waiting on a work email to show up.

Makes sense!
Your enthusiasm is awesome, and best of luck to you and your daughter.

I’ve basically only bow hunted elk for the last 25 years, with a sprinkling of ML.
Stick me anywhere in the state, I’d hone in on multiple high points within a certain area, glass, glass, glass…and then spot and stalk.

If I got bored, I’d dip into elky spots early and late listening and glassing every open little spot visible…and occasionally call.

If I got really bored, I’d scout… looking for freshy fresh sign, and put together a playbook as to what I think the elk are doing, and adjust.

I rarely pay attention to the steepness, or direction a slope faces. Just gotta get into places where you can glass and find elk. Could be meadows, could be steep nasty scree fields.
Wind would likely not play a large part, until I was getting close or making/planning a move.
I’d very much strategically consider camp, but not stress about scent at all.
Lastly, I would expect elk anywhere, at any time, especially when you least expect.

 

[Chris in TN]

Makes sense!
Your enthusiasm is awesome, and best of luck to you and your daughter.

I'm not sure this is enthusiasm. It might be terror. What I was hoping to do is take her on a deer hunt for her first trip in one of the early season units. That would have been mild weather, easy pack-out, quality experience, and from my experiences across both public and private lands I think going into a good unit with a good tag and lower pressure and finding a 3 year old 3x3 or 4x4 or whatever, as a 'first western animal', would have been a fairly easy hunt. Instead I jumped at this secondary-draw elk tag where I'll be sharing the mountains with hundreds of younger and more experienced dudes and I realize that I have my work cut out for me. To be clear, she *wants* to do this, and she's reiterated that, no matter how many times I've tried to paint this in the hardest possible light, but we both realize it's a challenge and the terrifying part is that she just assumes I'm up to it.

ETA: We have plans for a possible antelope hunt and a possible deer hunt next year, much lower-key stuff, with the whole family in tow, and my middle kid might even have a tag, maybe.

There's a saying in politics that there's only two ways to run for office if you want to win: Run scared or run unopposed. This is me running scared. Make no mistake, I mean that in a good way - in part we're doing this *because* it's hard. But I recognize that it isn't a thing where you just show up and wander around until you see a good bull and shoot it and it runs downhill and dies in the parking lot. This is work. I explained that to my daughter the other day - elk hunting is pain, and the pain has to be spread out over the entire summer, now, so that we can manage the pain this fall. That means I study when I can and try to explain to her what to expect the best I can and we both exercise a lot. There's worse things than that, I'm sure.

 

[TradLife406]

I've found a lot of elk close to the FS roads and on them. I glassed a herd last weekend a half mile off the road. I've also found elk on south slopes.

How are you realistically packing an elk out 17 miles one way on your back?
Three is pretty realistic. Five you're going to hate life especially if there's a big gain in elevation with a heavy pack. 5-10 you're either Cam Hanes or a dude who's over exaggerating the distance to look cool online.


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[Chris in TN]

I've found a lot of elk close to the FS roads and on them. I glassed a herd last weekend a half mile off the road. I've also found elk on south slopes.

How are you realistically packing an elk out 17 miles one way on your back?
Three is pretty realistic. Five you're going to hate life especially if there's a big gain in elevation with a heavy pack. 5-10 you're either Cam Hanes or a dude who's over exaggerating the distance to look cool online.


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The seventeen mile figure - and everything else that preceded it - was a joke. I can assure you I have no intentions of packing an elk seventeen miles. I wouldn't pack a deer that far. Or a squirrel for that matter.

I agree that three miles is pretty realistic if the weather is decent, because three miles in means 3 miles out for starters plus two more 6-mile round trips. I figure between me and my daughter, me with a substantial pack and her with whatever room is left in her soft pack (and her limited capacity), three trips out would do most elk. On a small raghorn two trips would possibly cover it especially if I was doing the second trip without camping/hunting gear and might even grill up a batch of loin for dinner before the trip and get rid of a pound that way. I also agree that five miles out would be brutal and seventeen is, again, a joke. And all of that of course depends on elevation and weather. That's why I spoke with a packer in the area (and have actually reached out to a second one as plan B) before I mentally committed to this. There's some sort of weight/distance/elevation calculation I'll do in my head if she gets one down and I'll *happily* pay a packer to help if it's above my comfort level.

My one packing experience here at home involved shooting a doe about 1.5 miles from the truck. I toted her on my shoulder (with a strap around her legs) for a few hundred yards and realized I was going to hurt myself and spend half the night doing it, and it was starting to rain, so I sat her down and deboned her (hinds, straps, loins, neck, and left the bones in the shoulders) in the rain, stuffed maybe 45 pounds of deer into what was already a 10 pound pack with a 10 pound rifle, and toted her out what GE tells me was ~1.3 miles or so with a little over 200' of elevation gain/loss. Sure, that's nothing, compared to any elk in CO, but the point is, it *felt like* nothing and I didn't break a sweat doing it. It was frankly one of the more enjoyable experiences I had that year. I've done much longer (6+ mile) hikes with similar weights, for fun. I might do one today for that matter (admittedly I won't likely bring that much weight, we'll save that for later this summer).

 

[Hnthrdr]

Small bulls will be just north of 200lbs quartered, not boned, that said a big mature bull will be almost double if you include antlers and cape. I’m no hero but was a ranger tabbed infantryman, my buddy was collegiate hockey player for notre dame and drafted by the Minnesota wild,out worst pack out was on a bull that was about 250 hanging weight quartered out we were 3.5 miles from the truck only one really good elevation gain rest was down hill and it took us a bit over 8 hours of continuous packing to get the beast off the mountain, two trips plus we were back pack hunting so we each had 40ish lbs of gear/ food on our backs

 

[Jqualls]

Hnthrdr has some good advice. 3 miles is a big packout even for 2 adult men. It takes a minimum of 4 loads to get a bull off the mountain including the head but no cape. That is with one of those loads being around 100lbs. My good friend was a part of his first successful archery bull hunt last year and I think he would be the first to say it was a bigger task then he expected. He grew up in the area and had done some elk hunting growing up and is more mentally tough then 90% of the guys on the mountain. It was still a bit of a shock to him when we walked up to start processing it around 6pm. 5-6 loads is probably more realistic for most packouts especially if backpacking gear is factored in.

His advice on backpacking is also pretty spot on. If you are hunting within 3 miles anyhow backpacking adds a lot of unnecessary difficulty for first hunt. Hiking out to a base camp for good sleep and good food is worth the extra 20-30 minute hike in/out. It also allows for a lot more flexibility. Unless you have a known honey hole I like the idea of just one night trips. In the areas I hunt a lot I typically only spend a couple days in a spot before jumping to a different location anyhow unless I am into them really thick.

If the backpacking is more important than the hunting then do a backpacking hunt but if the hunting is equally or more important, I would highly recommend day hunts or short spike trips.

 

[Chris in TN]

Small bulls will be just north of 200lbs quartered, not boned, that said a big mature bull will be almost double if you include antlers and cape. I’m no hero but was a ranger tabbed infantryman, my buddy was collegiate hockey player for notre dame and drafted by the Minnesota wild,out worst pack out was on a bull that was about 250 hanging weight quartered out we were 3.5 miles from the truck only one really good elevation gain rest was down hill and it took us a bit over 8 hours of continuous packing to get the beast off the mountain, two trips plus we were back pack hunting so we each had 40ish lbs of gear/ food on our backs

You're running on an entirely different level of strength (and youth, probably, lol) than I/she would be. I'm a middle aged dude who works at a desk most days. I did listen to a FFDP song one time.

Hnthrdr has some good advice. 3 miles is a big packout even for 2 adult men. It takes a minimum of 4 loads to get a bull off the mountain including the head but no cape. That is with one of those loads being around 100lbs.

But I'm honestly not even seriously considering the possibility of killing a really big bull on this hunt. I mean sure it could happen but I'd call it an outside chance at best. I strongly suspect that we'll end up with less than 200 pounds of actual meat, at best, and I figure 150 is more likely with all bone removed and nothing but meat, skullcap, and a single testicle. Skullcap won't be huge. Probably a spike with a 5.25" browtine on one side. Worst/best case I expect would be a 5x5 like what I killed 2 years ago. He ended up being about 250 pounds of frozen meat *AFTER* adding a whole bunch of beef fat to all the ground meat, so maybe he was 220 pounds of actual elk venison, and that's with a processor who has the means to clean the ribcage, etc. I'd be absolutely shocked if we ended up with north of 200 pounds of meat even including a skullcap.

And if we do, the plan will be to pack up camp, move camp and a small load of meat, whatever few pounds we can, to the hiking trails or however near them I have to, then leave everything but rifle and empty pack, and go get a second load of meat that could be 60-80 pounds between the two of us, then do that again, and the meat is now horse-accessible. Then we head out with antlers and perhaps a small amount of meat, whatever we can easily carry for dinner that night at the trailhead, then hopefully the next day we'll head back in with the packer to get the rest.

I mean there's a hundred variations of how that could play out, and if we kill the biggest bull in the drainage we'll cross that bridge when it comes, but we, at least, have a plan, and I appreciate that elk meat is heavy, but I think people are getting a bit too hung up on this.

Also - I just walked in from another hike with a 40 pound pack in the wonderful mid-south summer humidity. I'm not 'ready' and I'm probably a weakling compared to most of you guys, but, I think we can do this.
One other thing - I know a lot of you guys bowhunt. We're doing 1st rifle season and the law of averages tells me we will probably have the sort of weather where we aren't stressed about getting all the meat out the same night she shoots one. If I get it deboned and in the shade decently quick on an average mid-October night at 9k to 11k elevation it'll cool fairly quick. I also intend to bring a couple ounces of citric acid (I have it on hand, use it to tumble brass) and a spray bottle to mist the meat surface.

 

[Hnthrdr]

You're running on an entirely different level of strength (and youth, probably, lol) than I/she would be. I'm a middle aged dude who works at a desk most days. I did listen to a FFDP song one time.


But I'm honestly not even seriously considering the possibility of killing a really big bull on this hunt. I mean sure it could happen but I'd call it an outside chance at best. I strongly suspect that we'll end up with less than 200 pounds of actual meat, at best, and I figure 150 is more likely with all bone removed and nothing but meat, skullcap, and a single testicle. Skullcap won't be huge. Probably a spike with a 5.25" browtine on one side. Worst/best case I expect would be a 5x5 like what I killed 2 years ago. He ended up being about 250 pounds of frozen meat *AFTER* adding a whole bunch of beef fat to all the ground meat, so maybe he was 220 pounds of actual elk venison, and that's with a processor who has the means to clean the ribcage, etc. I'd be absolutely shocked if we ended up with north of 200 pounds of meat even including a skullcap.

And if we do, the plan will be to pack up camp, move camp and a small load of meat, whatever few pounds we can, to the hiking trails or however near them I have to, then leave everything but rifle and empty pack, and go get a second load of meat that could be 60-80 pounds between the two of us, then do that again, and the meat is now horse-accessible. Then we head out with antlers and perhaps a small amount of meat, whatever we can easily carry for dinner that night at the trailhead, then hopefully the next day we'll head back in with the packer to get the rest.

I mean there's a hundred variations of how that could play out, and if we kill the biggest bull in the drainage we'll cross that bridge when it comes, but we, at least, have a plan, and I appreciate that elk meat is heavy, but I think people are getting a bit too hung up on this.

Also - I just walked in from another hike with a 40 pound pack in the wonderful mid-south summer humidity. I'm not 'ready' and I'm probably a weakling compared to most of you guys, but, I think we can do this.
One other thing - I know a lot of you guys bowhunt. We're doing 1st rifle season and the law of averages tells me we will probably have the sort of weather where we aren't stressed about getting all the meat out the same night she shoots one. If I get it deboned and in the shade decently quick on an average mid-October night at 9k to 11k elevation it'll cool fairly quick. I also intend to bring a couple ounces of citric acid (I have it on hand, use it to tumble brass) and a spray bottle to mist the meat surface.

For sure, not trying to flex haha I’m a pretty average fella, just painting a realistic packout from an average “hardcore” hunter. I think people will exaggerate distance and vert gained ect. Good thing is in Oct it’s highly likely to get much cooler temps than Sept, so you definitely have that going for you. Who knows man you might kill a really big bull, my big bull was killed about 360 yards from a road… packed about 430lbs of him off the mountain… haha best packout ever!

 

[Customweld]

I'm looking at a couple of ridgetop saddles and wondering if they'd be productive once shooting starts.

There's just a heckuva lot I simply do not know.

Saddles can be extremely productive once the shooting starts. I'm in Idaho, but I've posted up close to saddles when I know there is pressure around me. Find one that looks like it has a quick escape route from bedding timber and pick a clean shooting lane. A lot of times if they are bumped out of a bed, they will try their best to get back into deep timber, while minimizing their time in the open.