I got a n00b issue going on.

[HairyScandinavian]

What the heck happened here?

I loaded up 20 110 VMAX and 9 115 Gold Dots for my 6.8 SPC to test since I was headed to the range anyway. All loaded to max mag length. This was a lot of 100 primed virgin brass because my old brass was beat up, I sized all 100 pieces in one session before loading with RCBS small base sizer die. All the VMX rounds chamber fine, all but one Gold Dot won't chamber. I don't think it's hitting the rifling as they won't slide into the case checker either.

I saw some nasty plunger scars after the second set of 5 VMAX so stopped there. Was trying to make some LT-30 work since I have a couple lbs sitting idle.

 

[Taudisio]

Sharpie the bullet and try it again. If you are seated max COAL, check your CBTO length of each. I’m guessing your bullet is jamming into the rifling.
The only other thought is the bullet width. Check both bullets right above the brass. Very slim chance Speer messed up, but not impossible.

 

[HairyScandinavian]

Sharpie trick looks like it's the case where it begins to neck down. I covered this completely and gently attempted to chamber and it wiped off the ring around the widest part. Bullet goes completely into the case checker hole on the bottom side which appears to be the same diameter all the way through so I don't think it's being stopped by the bullet but I'll measure when I can get to my calipers tomorrow, also no marks on the bullets that got hard chambered.

So it seems the shoulder itself is somehow larger than it should be but I need to understand why it happened with all the Speer and not the VMAX. Could compressed powder push out the case wall when seating?

 

[Taudisio]

Sharpie trick looks like it's the case where it begins to neck down. I covered this completely and gently attempted to chamber and it wiped off the ring around the widest part. Bullet goes completely into the case checker hole on the bottom side which appears to be the same diameter all the way through so I don't think it's being stopped by the bullet but I'll measure when I can get to my calipers tomorrow, also no marks on the bullets that got hard chambered.

So it seems the shoulder itself is somehow larger than it should be but I need to understand why it happened with all the Speer and not the VMAX. Could compressed powder push out the case wall when seating?

View attachment 1053443
View attachment 1053444

How much are you compressing?!!?
If they have been resized like you said, brass being out of spec shouldn’t be the problem.
Do they feel stiffer when you are seating a bullet? I assume the speers are flat based vs boat tail so powder compression would be different if the bullets are the same length. Neck tension could be another reason. The speers may be slightly over sized. If you have a neck mandrel try that a few times, if not, run a piece of brass over the expander ball only in the resizing die a few times. You could also seat a vmax, pull it, then try the Speer again. All ways to try and loosen the neck tension. What seating die are you using?

 

[HairyScandinavian]

Interesting, I've got a lot to learn. I didn't think I was compressing much, typically stop once I feel like it is because I'm not wanting another variable yet. I'm using the RCBS kit, came with small base sizer and their normal seating die. These are crimped because of being an AR if that makes a difference.

Edit: I bet I messed up the crimping adjustment and it's cramming the case neck down. I'm gonna pull these and load them into some empty cases with current setting then back it off some to compare.

Here's the GD and VMax side by side at equal lengths from the top so should actually be more room.

 

[Pickettpuncher]

I think you’re right about the crimping. Looks to be crimping while still seating. Flared your shoulder out some.

 

[Pickettpuncher]

Could also be a brass length issue so check it, but I think it’s the crimping

 

[Judd]

When you sized them how far did you bump the shoulder back? You need to take a piece that is fired...do your process and measure where that ring is on the brass after every step you do. You know where you're issue is, not figure out which step in your process is creating the brass being fatter in the area.

 

[Caseknife]

Definitely a crimping issue, agree with @Pickettpuncher. Can easily see the bulge in the case in the reflection in the pic of the cartridge inserted bullet first. Doesn't like crimping with no cannelure. I have never experienced a bulged case to my knowledge from powder compression, but I don't compress more than a crunch.

 

[Taudisio]

Interesting, I've got a lot to learn. I didn't think I was compressing much, typically stop once I feel like it is because I'm not wanting another variable yet. I'm using the RCBS kit, came with small base sizer and their normal seating die. These are crimped because of being an AR if that makes a difference.

Edit: I bet I messed up the crimping adjustment and it's cramming the case neck down. I'm gonna pull these and load them into some empty cases with current setting then back it off some to compare.

Here's the GD and VMax side by side at equal lengths from the top so should actually be more room.
View attachment 1053447

Crimping didn’t even cross my mind. Yes, that is most likely your problem. I only crimp straightwall cartridges. I load for my gas guns. No crimping for me. I have nearly compressed a 357 case in half while crimping. It definitely has the power to jack your brass up as you have done.

 

[wind gypsy]

I think it's something with seating die making contact with the neck and messing up the case, IE crimping issue like has been said.

 

[Caseknife]

Narrow shouldered cases like 300BO are easy to collapse the case.

 

[Caseknife]

If you really want to crimp non-cannelured bullets the Lee Factory Crimp die is the way go.

 

[Okie_Poke]

What the heck happened here?

As others said, I think your immediate problem is the crimp. But I have some additional thoughts too.

I loaded up 20 110 VMAX and 9 115 Gold Dots for my 6.8 SPC to test since I was headed to the range anyway. All loaded to max mag length.

That may be safe to do in a 5.56 chamber, but it's not safe to do in other AR chamberings. You can be into the lands under mag length with different bullet shapes. 120 Sierra ProHuntes in 6.5 Grendel is my specific example, but I can see the Gold Dot being in the same boat in 6.8. Don't assume you're safe just because you are under mag length.

This was a lot of 100 primed virgin brass because my old brass was beat up, I sized all 100 pieces in one session before loading with RCBS small base sizer die. All the VMX rounds chamber fine, all but one Gold Dot won't chamber.

If this is true, the problem is not with the brass. I'm not sure yet of the explanation for your ring on the shoulder, but the brass and sizing isn't your problem.

I don't think it's hitting the rifling as they won't slide into the case checker either.

I don't have the same ammo checker as you, but if I seat a bullet too far out mine will do what your second picture in the OP shows. A case gauge won't, but a loaded round gauge will.

When you did your Sharpie test, it doesn't look to me like you colored the bearing surface of the bullet. That's what you need to color to see if it's hitting the lands. I still think you need to check this. I have the Hornady/Stoney Point Gauge and a modified case for everything I load now because of a bad experience with my Grendel.

But I also agree you should turn the crimp off. If you set your crimp on the Vmax cannelure and then used the same setting on non-cannelured bullet, that's going to give you problems.

ETA: I don't crimp most of my AR ammo anymore and don't have any trouble. If I do crimp, I use a Lee factory crimp die and keep it light.

 

[HairyScandinavian]

Appreciate it yall and thank you for the great extra feedback too, still being new to reloading I love reading extra thoughts and take it all in. I can't wait to load a few up and report back, probably be Sunday most likely as my evening just got booked and Saturday have plans. First thing I'll do is seat them in the RCBS die without crimping and test, I'm sure they'll fit fine... I'll probably just roll on without crimping but any issues I'll pickup a dedicated crimp die. In my mind now I can definitely see where crimping without cannelure the way the RCBS die does it is probably still pushing the projectile down and I may also have adjusted the die too far down to boot.

 

[wind gypsy]

I may also have adjusted the die too far down to boot.

I'd guess this is the culprit. Screw the die out more and rely on stem adjustment to get your bullet seated deeper.

 

[HairyScandinavian]

I'd guess this is the culprit. Screw the die out more and rely on stem adjustment to get your bullet seated deeper.

That'd be the biggest thing that changed between the VMAX and the GD, I would've had to readjust the seating stem depth due to the different profile so would've caused me to readjust the depth for crimping also and I bet I went too far. Most likely some inattention because the VMAX was my primary load and the GD's I just threw in to see what they'd do with that powder which wasn't on the original plans. That would make sense why all the VMAX chamber fine and all (almost) all the GD don't, that and maybe the lack cannelure which gives the brass a place to recess to.

 

[Taudisio]

Do you have a bullet comparator set? If not, you should invest in one. This way you can have consistent cartridge base to ogive (CBTO) measurements. As it was mentioned before, a vmax seated to 2.260” overall length may have .100” of jump. The gold dot seated to the same length may be jamming into the lands. Your reloading books should be able to indicate this and there is access to multiple sources for free online.

When seating different bullets in the same case, just set the full die up once per the dies instructions. Then use the seating stem only to adjust the depth for each cartridge.

 

[HairyScandinavian]

I do but I didn't measure the CBTO on these as it was just a preliminary test run to see what the powder did. I'd have to double check my notes but I believe the COAL in the Speer guide for 115's was the same. I will for sure double check that and use the OAL gauge to get some measurements and load more intentionally next time.

 

[HairyScandinavian]

I couldn't stand it so I'm up late in the reloading room. I pulled the bullets and dumped the powder and resized the cases, almost forgot to remove the primer puncher that may have been fun explaining to the wife. So I'm an IT guy and somewhat analytical and set out to recreate the problem. First three I seated with no crimp and they were fine, second set of three I seated and then crimped with the RCBS die after the fact without problems, third set of three I set and adjusted to seat and crimp in one motion and still no problem. So I dropped the crimper adjustment 1/4 turn and ran another one through it, sure enough bingo it won't slip into the case checker flush. Looking like rookie me got overly aggressive with the crimp and destroyed the Gold Dot batch I loaded when originally loading them. I can only guess but I'm thinking without the cannelure on these I may have not seen the crimp or been satisfied with it and went too far. Good to know.

I think I like method #2 going forward, planning to seat all my semiauto rounds and then run them through a dedicated crimp only after the seat is good. Part of the reason being I'm seeing tiny inconsistencies in seating depth when doing them all in one which I attribute to the crimp adding resistance as the bullet is coming to rest near proper depth.