Hunting land/Ranch purchase thoughts.

[cottonant]

Do you want to be Land Rich and Cash Poor?

Unless you already have enough $ to buy it outright and bank roll the many monthly expenses and travel costs , that’s what will happen. (Unless this will be your primary residence?)

I know because I had 187 prime whitetail acres with a shop and 2 bedroom house for 3 years. Sold it and put the equity into an investment earning 15%- now the cash flow is 110% flipped!

From putting $60k+ a year into mortgage interest, maintenance and improvements, I’m getting $50k a year out of my investment- with that I got a hunting lease near by (with even more and bigger deer) for a fraction of the total cost, and can now pay for many hunts all over the world.

Now if it did work out right, and I had excess money and could live close enough or even convince my wife to make it a primary residence then I would love to own some recreational hunting/fishing land.

Wildwilderness, your point hits home. Last night on the way home from a whitetail hunt on my property, I was questioning having a $450k to a $500k land asset that could be earning income, but instead cost $$$ and a lot of hours of labor each year.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

There’s nothing like land. Yes, it may not generate income and it may be a pain in the butt, but I always wish I had more of it. It’s shocking how expensive it is these days, but there’s a good reason for that.

 

[Coopsdaddy]

Wild wilderness
I definitely get what you’re saying.
I have 119 acres in Oklahoma that I’ve had the 22 years.
I don’t live there but hunt it and it’s easy to take 4-8 deer a year off it.
I’m tried of living thru everyone else’s big game hunting and thinking about selling and taking the interest anyway and going on one or two hunts a year.
Whitetail are fun but im ready for something else.I got to go elk hunting a few times before kids and longed for it sense.
At 49 with my last child in high school I would like to move anyway.
We been in the same house 25 years about 10 minutes from the property.
I may just sell 85 and keep the rest as I have a Oklahoma lifetime license and can always kill a few deer,camp etc.
I’ll never be able to afford it again at the new prices but I’ll never get some of my dreams accomplished if I keep it.
There is something to say about just going to your own place to hunt but it’s nothing like standing on top of a mountain either.

 

[el_jefe_pescado]

There are properties out there but you will have to sacrifice something on your wish list. I agree with others regarding elk don't get fooled by a listing or trail cam picture--it takes a huge amount of ground to maintain a resident herd.

Lastly, make sure that you have a substantial OPEX/improvement budget and also have baked wildfire defensibility into the equation (not a deal breaker but insurance is getting tricky out here in some instances).

Sent you a PM, OP.

 

[dgfavor]

That is the reality someone would face to get into a property like yours. I know from experience a few thousand in a grazing lease and farming doesn’t come close to covering $1M mortgage, insurance, and taxes

The problem we see with the OP is all the stipulations to fit into the budget mentioned…

I get the impression from the OP that he doesn't need the property to produce income in order to purchase it - I agree that would be a whole nuther can of worms and added pressure. I bought my place outright probably 20 years ago so didn't face those kind of issues. Currently there is a very similar place for sale just over the hill from me. (mix of ag acres and native range acres, elk/deer/moose/sharptail/huns/chuks/phez/ruffeds/blues, an established well, good access, backs up to the same 100k+ acres of public land I do) I just did a quick Onx line distance and if I jumped on my horse, crossed onto the adjacent public, and went for a ride, it would be 7 miles, all public, between that parcel and mine. $975K for 307 acres. Other than it does have a power line across it, it really ticks all the OP's boxes - who knows what it will sell for, or if it will sell. Seems overpriced to me. If I sold mine for the same $$/acre, it would be 14x my original purchase price and I would owe a capital gains tax more than twice what I paid for the place. I bought it before I got married so I am still sole owner. When I mysteriously, suddenly, croak my wife will inherit it at a step up in basis. Then she can sell it without significant tax penalty and take her new BF on a lifetime of stone sheep hunts.

I just mentioned that tapping into the income potential of the property can be beneficial. In some cases it can facilitate some of the reasons the place was bought in the first place. In my case, I could just pay the fed/state tax on my rental income and use the balance to go on a pretty decent guided backcountry elk hunt every year...or pay for all my DIY hunting that I do...or whatever. I choose to operate it as a business that sustains itself and puts no burden on my day to day home finances. I get my rent check usually in January whenever they get around to it. Taxes are incredibly minimal...waaay less than my home by factor of near 10. My biggest expense is fuel and equipment costs thru the year as I cut my own hay on the place and maintain a pretty vigilant "security overwatch". Sometimes security involves me getting getting up in the dark, putting a pack on my back, and taking a piece or two of the ranches optical equipment up onto a good glassing point and doing overwatch for, uh, stuff....most commonly in September and October. We just stay there quite a bit that time of year, often with family and friends, in what folks might say resembles "Deer Camp". Sometimes the ranch needs a new "security cam" or two when I find a spot that looks like people or cattle have been coming in off the BLM...funny, it usually turns out to be a herd of elk...only way to know is to put one of the ranches new security cams out there. The business had to get a new pack frame this year to better haul the security equipment up on the hills. It also hauls a T-post driver and a few T-posts really well. By the end of the year my hay operation, general property operation, and "security" expenses have pretty much depleted my yearly rent payment. I just checked - the ranch account has been drained down to $55.26 as of today....just in time to get the rent check next month and repeat. I might owe a smidge of tax on that. I'm a little tongue in cheek on this of course but essentially I'm saying tapping into a properties income potential can, with creativity, offset associated expenses (in my case all of them) as well as help finance the reason/activity you bought the place. YMMV.

Performing surveillance - I had a couple intruders bedded down that we elected to go get a closer look at to determine their intent:

Again, I'll say, personally, I'd probably say it's the best thing I ever purchased in a very rare moment of spontaneity and I'd encourage the OP, with all due diligence, to pursue the dream:

 

[dgfavor]

Wild wilderness
I definitely get what you’re saying.
I have 119 acres in Oklahoma that I’ve had the 22 years.
I don’t live there but hunt it and it’s easy to take 4-8 deer a year off it.
I’m tried of living thru everyone else’s big game hunting and thinking about selling and taking the interest anyway and going on one or two hunts a year.
Whitetail are fun but im ready for something else.I got to go elk hunting a few times before kids and longed for it sense.
At 49 with my last child in high school I would like to move anyway.
We been in the same house 25 years about 10 minutes from the property.
I may just sell 85 and keep the rest as I have a Oklahoma lifetime license and can always kill a few deer,camp etc.
I’ll never be able to afford it again at the new prices but I’ll never get some of my dreams accomplished if I keep it.
There is something to say about just going to your own place to hunt but it’s nothing like standing on top of a mountain either.

After typing a novel above how much I love my place - and I do, I confess I have the same thoughts sometimes as well. If the capital gains tax didn't bug me so much, I could possibly foresee doing what you're proposing and just enter a next chapter on life that doesn't include the ranch...but maybe does include a stone hunt or the like. I could do those hunts without selling the ranch but I'm too cheap! Once it's gone, it's gone though - I can't foresee doing a 1031 to another locale or similar property elsewhere.

 

[Coopsdaddy]

The capital gains is what has keep me on pause.
It’s criminal.I have never in 20 plus years seen the federal government on my land brush hogging,spraying,building fence etc.
I have almost considered building a small barn and living in it for two years just to beat the system.
Its really a sad thing we work hard to prosper and they need there slice.
It’s not short term investing or a side bussiness.
But even if I dont I’m pretty set on selling anyway.
We are not holding onto it to pass down,we worked for it.If I have something left for my kids than that will be an awesome thing but it will not be guaranteed.

 

[7mm-08]

After typing a novel above how much I love my place - and I do, I confess I have the same thoughts sometimes as well. If the capital gains tax didn't bug me so much, I could possibly foresee doing what you're proposing and just enter a next chapter on life that doesn't include the ranch...but maybe does include a stone hunt or the like. I could do those hunts without selling the ranch but I'm too cheap! Once it's gone, it's gone though - I can't foresee doing a 1031 to another locale or similar property elsewhere.

If I were you, which I am not, my next of kin would have to bury me there rather than me trading that property and your refined tax situation for cash. I'm envious of where you find yourself with that arrangement. And, I'm happy for you.

 

[Jimmy]

I think you should buy as big of a piece as you can! And if one day you feel very appreciative and want to reward the guy who encouraged you do so, shoot me an invite to come hunt with you!

 

[Doc Holliday]

I know people on here roll their eyes at the Yellowstone show, but this quote from John Dutton was memorable: "Leverage is knowing that if someone had all the money in the world, this is what they'd buy."

In the context of this thread, we may not be talking about millions of acres in paradise valley, but any land you own that you can hunt on, if you own it long enough, it will become a part of your soul.

It is alot of work, and the work is never done. Put a house on it, and things really go up a notch as far as expenses and upkeep.

Not sure that this answered any of OPs questions, but I do recommend owning hunting land if you can. They ain't making any more of it, and what is still left will continue to get more fragmented and expensive as time goes by.

Be sure to get on the county tax assessor's website and research who the neighbors are, how many parcels touch yours and where, etc. These things can change, but do what you can to not immediately jump into a tough situation.