Hunting bullet performance - prefer through or a grenade inside?

[def90]

Where's the option for shot placement and knowing what you are capable of shooting?

 

[MNGrouser]

You’re thinking about 120 from POI to where it was found? Thanks.

Ballpark? Yeah.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

A bullet “penciling through” and killing slowly but potentially leaving a blood trail versus a bullet destroying the insides and killing quickly but maybe doesn’t leave a blood trail (rare) is a weird comparison.

 

[Choupique]

shot placement

This is why I like a straight hole straight through. Regardless of the angle I can get a front shoulder and some good engine room damage and two holes.

It also gives me the option to choose whether I trade some meat loss for a bang-flop, or save all the meat and have a short and very easy blood trail with no meat waste depending on where I am.

 

[hereinaz]

A bullet “penciling through” and killing slowly but potentially leaving a blood trail versus a bullet destroying the insides and killing quickly but maybe doesn’t leave a blood trail (rare) is a weird comparison.

This has always been weird to me too.

It’s certainly a personal preference, but saying you want a blood trail for tracking when the other option doesn’t require tracking has never made sense.

Choosing a bullet for purposely shooting through shoulders or any shot angle, that makes some sense.

There is also a weird conflict with the idea of shooting non expanding bullets to reduce meat damage but then saying you don’t want to shoot grenades for ruining meat, when most of us choose to shoot them into the lungs.

 

[Mike D Texas]

I want both. A Partition is the closest to ideal bulls that I’ve seen for this. I don’t understand why Nosler hasn’t modernized the Partition to have a better BC.


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[Snowwolfe]

Fill up a gallon zip lock with water, seal it shut. Poke a hole in one side and watch the water come out. Then put another hole in the other side and watch.
Always prefer pass thru unless I know for sure I can hit the spine or break down the shoulders.

 

[Choupique]

The only hunters I know of who don't want any expansion are dangerous game people who are shooting stuff that leaves the barrel at a half inch anyway, with a flat nearly caliber diameter nose. Myself and the other people I know who want penetration also want expansion, just controlled so that it doesn't stop early. I've always liked what partitons do to animals.

We have so many options! A man can use a .223 with match bullets and it be effective. He can use a .500 jeffrey with solids and it be effective. He can use a .50 bmg Barrett and have 7,500 grains of bullet in the magazine ready to fly. I love America so much.

 

[hereinaz]

Fill up a gallon zip lock with water, seal it shut. Poke a hole in one side and watch the water come out. Then put another hole in the other side and watch.
Always prefer pass thru unless I know for sure I can hit the spine or break down the shoulders.

I get that. My pass through arrow killed my bull and he only went 30 yards. He didn’t bleed out very much though.

For rifle, I imagine that I drop a firecracker in the bag and smash the water around, so I don’t need any hole. It’s all personal preference at this point, cause the evidence and use is pretty well established.

 

[hereinaz]

The only hunters I know of who don't want any expansion are dangerous game people who are shooting stuff that leaves the barrel at a half inch anyway, with a flat nearly caliber diameter nose. Myself and the other people I know who want penetration also want expansion, just controlled so that it doesn't stop early. I've always liked what partitons do to animals.

We have so many options! A man can use a .223 with match bullets and it be effective. He can use a .500 jeffrey with solids and it be effective. He can use a .50 bmg Barrett and have 7,500 grains of bullet in the magazine ready to fly. I love America so much.

MERICA!

 

[Valumpessa]

Pass through with a 2ish inch exit hole. I want limited potential for meat damage. However, if I don't get an ideal kill shot and the animal disappears, I want a decent blood trail, which is more likely with an exit. I hunt in the jungle of western Oregon where an animal can go 50 yards and it can take hours to find them without good blood.

 

[Suera]

I use both, Hornady ELD-x, that is grenade, when I need shooting " soft skin animals" or long range to be sure for a good expansion, and LRX Barnes when I shoot big animals in relatively close distances " under 350 yards" with this combination I'm ready for everything, the good part in that in my rifle both have the same shoot impact then I can use both at the same time and depend the animal or the distance I put one or other.

 

[Article 4]

This is my thing.

Bergers for most animals up through elk that I want the bullet to stay inside. I have had excellent luck with this thinking and generally the animal either drops, or takes limited steps and hits the dirt. It also saves capes for mounting purposes. I like that it grenades inside and makes the vitals liquify

Bonded bullets for elk and larger animals where I might have to smash through heavier bone and go deeper through. Bergers work but having shot a 340 bull in Montana 3 times with the Berger 195 and it taking a good 4-5 mins to die, I decided to stay with bonded bullets - 100% bonded or solids for Africa and old world game due to the heavier bone and the heart being position more forward and almost always in between the shoulder.

 

[The Guide]

There is no right answer for everyone to choose. Depending upon your regulation limitations, game animal, terrain/cover, and hunting style, the "right" bullet and bullet style will change. A tree stand hunter that shoots animals at a downward angle wants a pass through since the initial hole is often high and won't leak any blood since the entire body cavity would have to fill up first. A person who does a lot of still hunting where they are shooting game at variable angles and ranges wants a bullet that is fragmenting but solid enough for a pass through after hitting bone. Someone who is doing open country type spot and stalk who may never get a shot less than 200 yards in windy broken terrain may want a high BC fragmenting match type bullet to give themselves the least wind drift but is less worried about an exit because their terrain allows them to view the animal for a longer time both before and after the shot. This allows them to pick the "perfect moment" to take the shot.

Some bullets will cross over and work in the 3 scenarios above but no 1 bullet is the "best" at all 3 situations. Many hunters I know have different rifles for situations. They have scopes, cartridges, and bullets that are optimized for each situation. They might have a 30-06 with a 165 Partition for still hunting the trees, a 243 or a 7mm-08 with AccuBond or Fusion bullets for the elevated blind in the river bottom, and a 300WM with a 200 ELDX or 215 Berger for open country elk and mule deer. Each of those guns and bullets would kill anything anywhere but none are perfect for everything.

The perfect cartridge, powder, primer, bullet, barrel, stock, rifle, scope, bipod, tripod, sling, trigger, etc does not exist. Tools (your weapons system is nothing more than a collection of parts that is used as a tool) need to be optimized for the situation at hand. Changing one part of the system for better performance in a different job is ok! A framing air nailer isn't the best tool for a roofer to install shingles just like a roofing nailer isn't the best tool for hanging drywall. Can you make it work? Sure you can, but is it easier to use the right tool for the job? It sure seems to be! Maybe finding a couple of different bullets that work in a rifle isn't such a bad idea. One that is a good short range round and a good long range round. Zero the rifle for the short range round and then put the offset zero for your long range round into your ballistics calculator and dial your solution for shooting long. Your performance will only be limited by your willingness to accept change and be different.

Jay

 

[Choupique]

initial hole is often high and won't leak any blood since the entire body cavity would have to fill up first.

I see this posted a lot. I don't understand this. The animals circulatory system is pressurized as long as it's alive and able to move, and lung holes always produce blood from the nose and mouth. Seems it would have to bleed externally?

Its commonly said so people must see it happen often. I just have never been able to understand how it could actually happen.

 

[mlevimadden]

I see this posted a lot. I don't understand this. The animals circulatory system is pressurized as long as it's alive and able to move, and lung holes always produce blood from the nose and mouth. Seems it would have to bleed externally?

Its commonly said so people must see it happen often. I just have never been able to understand how it could actually happen.

I grew up archery hunting whitetails in the Midwest and for some reason I was always shooting them high. There was usually very little blood if they’re hit with a high double lung shot. In my experience, they’d go on a death run after the shot for 1-200 yds and then pile up when they ran out of oxygen. This only takes 10-15 seconds so all the blood is still contained inside the body cavity and unable to be pushed out the hole.

I also had it happen on a cow moose this year shot with my muzzleloader. Shot was broadside and right behind the front shoulder but pretty much exact middle of vertical. It was a 300gr 50 cal mono at 60 yds. She was totally relaxed and the shot actually knocked her off her feet. She got up trotted 60 yds into the nearest tree line and laid down.

Luckily we were able to watch it all because there was zero blood outside of the impact location and where she died. When we butchered her there had to have been over 5 gallons of blood in her chest cavity.

 

[N2TRKYS]

I prefer a pass through, cause the blood trails are way better with two holes.

 

[Flyjunky]

I prefer a pass through, cause the blood trails are way better with two holes.

I’ve told this story a couple times in threads mostly related to mono bullets discussions. A few years ago I decided to try barnes ttsx bullets in my 300wm. I shot a good bull from 478, double lunged, in Montana. Upon impact the bull hunched up, spun 180°, and ran into the woods about 60 yards away. The shot looked like it broke perfectly but the reaction from the bull and the speed at which it ran was concerning. We trudged up the steep hill through 8” of snow to where the bull was when I shot. Not a single drop of blood anywhere! We followed the tracks into the woods and found the bull laying about 40 yards into the timber….not a single drop of blood the entire time. Cutting up that bull revealed a small entrance and exit. Just because you get two holes doesn’t mean you’ll get a blood trail.

I went back to Bergers and haven’t had any tracking jobs since. I might not always get a blood trail with fragmenting bullets either, but I watch them die within sight.