Hunt Raffle Impacts

[ColeyG]

For what it worth I was a board member for one of the WSF chapters, we did a lot of different projects (guzzlers, predator control, purchasing of grazing rights, and capture/relocation. As a chapter we couldn't necessarily fund the whole project but we contributed. A lot of those contributions came from the proceeds of raffles.

It is actually really cool to work closely with the chapters, you get to see all of the efforts being done across North America and how many people really care about the future of hunting.

Thanks for your work and for caring about the future of hunting, wild animals, and wild places.

 

[Steve O]

Apologies. I did speak pretty generally and cast a pretty wide net with my comment.

That having been said, not every single organization is as transparent as the Idaho Wild Sheep example posted above. Several "conservation" groups that claim to work on behalf of Alaska fish and wildlife put out exactly zero information about how the funds they collect are used. None.

Others, such as the Wild Sheep Foundation, include some general information about how much money was given to certain agencies, but what was that money actually used for and how did that benefit animals is often unclear.

As for my contributions, I've spent a fair amount of both my time and money on causes that I think will make an actual difference on the ground and will continue to do so. To get either from me I need to know what specific project they are going towards and how the fish and wildlife stand to benefit.

Excellent. I appreciate you coming in and clarifying. And I agree we should not blindly follow. I never pine about not making the Western Expo; the temptation is GREAT to try and win one of the tags they have stolen from me…even though I am 99% convinced it is rigged.

 

[Molon Labe]

I was curious what peoples opinions are on hunt raffles and particularly in regards to coveted sheep hunts?

I'll admit I used to really enjoy the raffles and viewed them as an opportunity to potentially win something I could otherwise never afford. That was back when you would see a handful of raffles per year. Fast forward to today and it seems like there is a raffle for another sheep hunt every few weeks. You do some quick math on how many tickets they are selling and the price of tickets and it's pretty easy to see why they are selling hunts via raffles/lottery systems rather than selling them out right. I'm not sure if it's just me but it seems like the raffle game has got a little out of control and the impact is just driving prices of these hunts higher and higher making the hunts that much more unachievable for the avg hunter. I'm not advocating for any type of regulations or anything but mainly just interested in people's opinion on how these raffles impact the avg guy?

I think you need to be more specific on what type of raffle you are talking about. There are three types: non-profits, state F&Gs and private companies.

My guess is you are speaking to the private company raffles driving up prices. I.e. epic, HF etc. Yeah…maybe a small bit because they are buying hunts and then pushing tickets sales VERY hard. So they pull a few hunts out of the open market reducing supply. Very small impact on pricing if I’m allowed a guess. I’m not a huge fan of these raffles because there is a lack of transparency typically…how many tickets will be sold? 3rd party is not in care custody control of the actual draw…strong pass from me. Plus zero of the dollars raised go to improving the sheep population or habitat.

Non-profit raffles are awesome. Money goes back on the mountain giving more opportunity in the future as population of sheep grows. Plus lots of us volunteer to help which multiplies the funds further. Very transparent on where funds are used.

Then state raffles…which typically has a very large percentage of funds going directly to the species. Plus PR dollar matches depending on the project. And some volunteer work depending on projects. Pretty decent transparency on funds used.

For those that commented about not knowing where non-profit or F&G type raffle dollars go…just spend a little time researching. It’s all there. Unfortunately you will have to read to discover…and actually put time in.

My recommendation is spend your “raffle dollars” on NP or F&G raffles and let those private companies sell to their mindless followers that suffer from FOMO.

 

[MTN BUM]

extremely limited resource (sheep tags) needs a lot of funding, and the people involved cant afford to pay the cost if it is only paid by people who get the tags. Raffle seems like the most fair system I can think of to bring in the money we need without just sending all the tags to auction/high bidders- which would eliminate many of us from ever dreaming of the hunt. Not to mention that if it was all auction/outfitted hunts, engagement and volunteerism would likely suffer because very few people are going to donate time and money to work on projects that would then sustain hunting for a very select few people who can pay the most.

 

[mdoolin]

I think you need to be more specific on what type of raffle you are talking about. There are three types: non-profits, state F&Gs and private companies.

My guess is you are speaking to the private company raffles driving up prices. I.e. epic, HF etc. Yeah…maybe a small bit because they are buying hunts and then pushing tickets sales VERY hard. So they pull a few hunts out of the open market reducing supply. Very small impact on pricing if I’m allowed a guess. I’m not a huge fan of these raffles because there is a lack of transparency typically…how many tickets will be sold? 3rd party is not in care custody control of the actual draw…strong pass from me. Plus zero of the dollars raised go to improving the sheep population or habitat.

Non-profit raffles are awesome. Money goes back on the mountain giving more opportunity in the future as population of sheep grows. Plus lots of us volunteer to help which multiplies the funds further. Very transparent on where funds are used.

Then state raffles…which typically has a very large percentage of funds going directly to the species. Plus PR dollar matches depending on the project. And some volunteer work depending on projects. Pretty decent transparency on funds used.

For those that commented about not knowing where non-profit or F&G type raffle dollars go…just spend a little time researching. It’s all there. Unfortunately you will have to read to discover…and actually put time in.

My recommendation is spend your “raffle dollars” on NP or F&G raffles and let those private companies sell to their mindless followers that suffer from FOMO.

100% agree and think you nailed it on the head.

The private industry raffles is what I was primarily referring too. The Non profit and state raffles are consistent and have been around for a long time. I support those all day long and have no question to their benefit toward conservation. The private raffles are the ones that seem to be popping up more and more to the point I was curious if anyone else could see it getting out of control one day.

 

[tpicou]

For what it worth I was a board member for one of the WSF chapters, we did a lot of different projects (guzzlers, predator control, purchasing of grazing rights, and capture/relocation. As a chapter we couldn't necessarily fund the whole project but we contributed. A lot of those contributions came from the proceeds of raffles.

It is actually really cool to work closely with the chapters, you get to see all of the efforts being done across North America and how many people really care about the future of hunting.

Did yall have the same problem we have in SCI? I'm the treasurer of a chapter and a lot of orgs don't want to take our money. As a specific example, we tried to start a fellowship at a university for a considerable amount of money (>>$100k) and earmark the money for hunter-friendly conservation biology research but the university attorneys cancelled it at the last minute. Super frustrating!

 

[Doc Holliday]

we tried to start a fellowship at a university for a considerable amount of money (>>$100k) and earmark the money for hunter-friendly conservation biology research but the university attorneys cancelled it at the last minute. Super frustrating!

Did they not want to move forward because of political reasons? (they were worried about the optics of supporting hunting?)

 

[tpicou]

Did they not want to move forward because of political reasons? (they were worried about the optics of supporting hunting?)

I have to assume so. They didn’t come out and say it directly but that was the vibe we got. The department wasn’t particularly happy about the decision since they worked with us on designing it. Pretty crazy considering it was going to sustain itself indefinitely and give undergrads money for research projects.

 

[Doc Holliday]

I have to assume so. They didn’t come out and say it directly but that was the vibe we got. The department wasn’t particularly happy about the decision since they worked with us on designing it. Pretty crazy considering it was going to sustain itself indefinitely and give undergrads money for research projects.

Crazy, and shameful what universities have become (spineless indoctrination centers that kowtow to the left)

 

[tpicou]

Crazy, and shameful what universities have become (spineless indoctrination centers that kowtow to the left)

Yeah the frustrating thing is that most (not all, but most) wildlife biologists that work on game-related species understand the role hunting plays in conservation. Even though this was supposed to be only for game-related (or adjacent, even) research, we would have been fine removing that stipulation and they knew it. Healthy ecosystems are just as important for game species as they are for everything else so every bit helps. At the end of the day they just didn’t want to touch SCI money and I guess students will need to fight for limited funding from other sources.

 

[ColeyG]

I think another hang up that is often encountered in supporting specific causes is that many fish and game agencies can't direct donated funds to a specific cause. The agencies, for the most part, can take the money, but they can't guarantee that WSF funds go to and only to sheep for example. The money goes into a general fund and gets spent based on manager's discretion and priorities.

 

[MntHunter]

Did yall have the same problem we have in SCI? I'm the treasurer of a chapter and a lot of orgs don't want to take our money. As a specific example, we tried to start a fellowship at a university for a considerable amount of money (>>$100k) and earmark the money for hunter-friendly conservation biology research but the university attorneys cancelled it at the last minute. Super frustrating!

We never had that issue, but we would have people make weird funding requests for research, mostly PHD students looking to funding. I think one was the effect of mushrooms on Wild Sheep, obviously they weren't approved.

 

[MntHunter]

I have to assume so. They didn’t come out and say it directly but that was the vibe we got. The department wasn’t particularly happy about the decision since they worked with us on designing it. Pretty crazy considering it was going to sustain itself indefinitely and give undergrads money for research projects.

That is really ashame!

 

[tpicou]

We never had that issue, but we would have people make weird funding requests for research, mostly PHD students looking to funding. I think one was the effect of mushrooms on Wild Sheep, obviously they weren't approved.

That sounds like incredible research.

Tripping Bighorns: How Shrooms Affect Sheep Breeding

 

[Kimbersig]

Scroll to the bottom and look at some of the costs of these projects. I'm gonna have to assume a bunch of that comes from money from the Auction and Raffle tags as the low number of sheep tags sold in Idaho each year is not going to cover even one of those projects.

Conservation - Idaho Wild Sheep Foundation

www.idahowildsheep.org

SFW is a well known scam. I already pointed that out in the other thread about the Hunt Expo that it's pretty amazing how many folks still support it and just turn a blind eye. That's why, as far as I know, most of the Governors tags that are auctioned off are done by WSF at the Sheep Show and not at the Hunt Expo.

Most states also have a raffle tag, nothing stopping you from buying tickets.

Just saw this thread. Thank you for posting this. We try really hard to be transparent and show what the money we raise is going towards. Over 90% of the funds we raise go into these projects each year we have less than 10% going into paying our contract admin support which is something we are incredibly proud of. Sheep hunt demand is through the roof and we see raffles as a way to send guys on hunts that they may never get to afford and raise money for expensive projects at the same time. Sheep are growing in Idaho and we are only getting started with one of if not the largest project that any state has ever taken on. If anyone wants to see more info go to our YouTube page and watch our videos too.

 

[jmart5687]

I was curious what peoples opinions are on hunt raffles and particularly in regards to coveted sheep hunts?

I'll admit I used to really enjoy the raffles and viewed them as an opportunity to potentially win something I could otherwise never afford. That was back when you would see a handful of raffles per year. Fast forward to today and it seems like there is a raffle for another sheep hunt every few weeks. You do some quick math on how many tickets they are selling and the price of tickets and it's pretty easy to see why they are selling hunts via raffles/lottery systems rather than selling them out right. I'm not sure if it's just me but it seems like the raffle game has got a little out of control and the impact is just driving prices of these hunts higher and higher making the hunts that much more unachievable for the avg hunter. I'm not advocating for any type of regulations or anything but mainly just interested in people's opinion on how these raffles impact the avg guy?

I am glad this thread got a reboot. IMO drawing a tag in the lower 48 is becoming more and more difficult and expensive. If you applied for half of the states that have sheep hunting available you would have to front thousands of dollars to just be in the running against terrible odds. However, minus the Governor Lottery tags, the organizations who offer sheep hunt raffles i.e., Idaho WSF, and the Rocky Mountain Bighorn Society, most if not all of their raffles have a limit of tickets sold. As I am not a mathematician to figure out the actual odds, but if you bought 5 tickets in a Sheep hunt raffle that is only selling 1,000 tickets vs. fronting $2,000 + a regular hunting license fee to apply for a tag against 1,000+??? other hopeful hunters, your odds are better in the raffle. Adding to this, applying in a general tag lottery you face point creep and 90/10 splits if you are a non-resident.

Also, most raffles are conducted by non-profit organizations that put that money back to actually helping sheep on the mountain, rather than a hiking trail where hunting is frowned upon. Oh yeah and have I mentioned that donating to the wildlife organizations that I mentioned above is a tax deduction?

Anyway, that is my opinion, and if I am not thinking about this correctly I am open to learn.