Hunt Raffle Impacts

[mdoolin]

I was curious what peoples opinions are on hunt raffles and particularly in regards to coveted sheep hunts?

I'll admit I used to really enjoy the raffles and viewed them as an opportunity to potentially win something I could otherwise never afford. That was back when you would see a handful of raffles per year. Fast forward to today and it seems like there is a raffle for another sheep hunt every few weeks. You do some quick math on how many tickets they are selling and the price of tickets and it's pretty easy to see why they are selling hunts via raffles/lottery systems rather than selling them out right. I'm not sure if it's just me but it seems like the raffle game has got a little out of control and the impact is just driving prices of these hunts higher and higher making the hunts that much more unachievable for the avg hunter. I'm not advocating for any type of regulations or anything but mainly just interested in people's opinion on how these raffles impact the avg guy?

 

[william schmaltz]

Typically raffles are sold by nonprofits. NGOs pay market value for the hunt (often times less than market value as there are tax benefits for donations by the outfitter). NGOs sell the tickets and they keep the profits above what was paid to the outfitter.

In a governor tag example, if the profit for a NGO is all the same and a fully guided Chugach sheep tag can either be raffled off by say WSF for $200k or sold at sheep show to highest bidder for $200k, I would personally rather see it in a raffle.

Raffles are not driving up prices.

 

[cbarg14]

Don't think they're necessarily driving up prices but do generate a lot of money for wild sheep organizations and/or F&G to do captures, monitor populations, habitat improvement projects, etc.

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[mdoolin]

Yes sir i understand the NGO raffles and fully support those. Those are the only raffles I currently participate in as they are fundraisers for a great causes! But not all raffles today are through NGO's and it seems like I see more and more that are outside the NGO systems.

It's honestly not a bad business model with social media today. Buy a sheep hunt for 30-40K, turn around and raffle it off with a few thousand tickets at $50 a pop and there is a healthy return on the back end!

 

[MuleyFever]

I dont mind the raffles and dont think the drive up prices much if at all. The auction tags I do have a little issue with as they are tags that are just funneled to the wealthy. I was a bit suprised by all the sheep tags auctioned at the hunt expo. Those are all opportunities taken from the average hunter.

 

[WCB]

Couldn't care less either way...the barrier to entry for sheep hunting isn't raffle tags and it sure the hell aint auction tags. Supply and demand is 100% dictating the Sheep prices right now. That hunt or tag isn't in a raffle it will be sold at market price by the outfitter. A tag that auctions for $600,000 with all or the majority going back towards conservation with ability for game and fish it receive Pittman Robertson match money...sounds good to me.

Point is if you want to kill a sheep go to MT while Unlimiteds still exist or buy a hunt now cause they arent getting any cheaper. The "average guy" aint going sheep hunting and can't afford it with or without raffles.

 

[ColeyG]

I'd like to know what is actually getting done with the profits from these things that are supposed to go back into conservation.

 

[TVW]

I dont mind the raffles and dont think the drive up prices much if at all. The auction tags I do have a little issue with as they are tags that are just funneled to the wealthy. I was a bit suprised by all the sheep tags auctioned at the hunt expo. Those are all opportunities taken from the average hunter.

The money generated from those sales goes back to keeping Sheep alive so the average hunter still has a chance to hunt them.

Each state throwing their 1 Governors tag that they auction back into the pool of tags isn't going to do shit to help the average hunter go sheep hunting in reality.

 

[ColeyG]

The money generated from those sales goes back to keeping Sheep alive so the average hunter still has a chance to hunt them.

Each state throwing their 1 Governors tag that they auction back into the pool of tags isn't going to do shit to help the average hunter go sheep hunting in reality.

That is what they say, but often it is hard to find any on the ground meaningful activities that those raffle dollars have funded.

 

[MuleyFever]

That is what they say, but often it is hard to find any on the ground meaningful activities that those raffle dollars have funded.

Yes, try to find how much money SFW actually gives back.

The money generated from those sales goes back to keeping Sheep alive so the average hunter still has a chance to hunt them.

Each state throwing their 1 Governors tag that they auction back into the pool of tags isn't going to do shit to help the average hunter go sheep hunting in reality.

They could probably raise just as much letting everyone buy a ticket rather than just selling it to the guy with the deepest pockets.

 

[TVW]

That is what they say, but often it is hard to find any on the ground meaningful activities that those raffle dollars have funded.

Scroll to the bottom and look at some of the costs of these projects. I'm gonna have to assume a bunch of that comes from money from the Auction and Raffle tags as the low number of sheep tags sold in Idaho each year is not going to cover even one of those projects.

Conservation - Idaho Wild Sheep Foundation

www.idahowildsheep.org

Yes, try to find how much money SFW actually gives back.


They could probably raise just as much letting everyone buy a ticket rather than just selling it to the guy with the deepest pockets.

SFW is a well known scam. I already pointed that out in the other thread about the Hunt Expo that it's pretty amazing how many folks still support it and just turn a blind eye. That's why, as far as I know, most of the Governors tags that are auctioned off are done by WSF at the Sheep Show and not at the Hunt Expo.

Most states also have a raffle tag, nothing stopping you from buying tickets.

 

[Steve O]

I'd like to know what is actually getting done with the profits from these things that are supposed to go back into conservation.

It’s incredibly easy to find that out. Some people even participate in such efforts. I’ll be going to Idaho to help on a project this spring. Every single organization shows exactly what they do with the money to help the sheep. Guzzlers, predator control, test and remove, transplants, relocations, grazing allotment retirements among many more.

Let your fingers do the walking…

What have YOU done to help the resource other than cast doubt on thousands of tireless grass roots conservationists?

 

[Steve O]

Scroll to the bottom and look at some of the costs of these projects. I'm gonna have to assume a bunch of that comes from money from the Auction and Raffle tags as the low number of sheep tags sold in Idaho each year is not going to cover even one of those projects.

Conservation - Idaho Wild Sheep Foundation

www.idahowildsheep.org

SFW is a well known scam. I already pointed that out in the other thread about the Hunt Expo that it's pretty amazing how many folks still support it and just turn a blind eye. That's why, as far as I know, most of the Governors tags that are auctioned off are done by WSF at the Sheep Show and not at the Hunt Expo.

Most states also have a raffle tag, nothing stopping you from buying tickets.

100% agree with ALL this ^^^

 

[cbarg14]

It’s incredibly easy to find that out. Some people even participate in such efforts. I’ll be going to Idaho to help on a project this spring. Every single organization shows exactly what they do with the money to help the sheep. Guzzlers, predator control, test and remove, transplants, relocations, grazing allotment retirements among many more.

Let your fingers do the walking…

What have YOU done to help the resource other than cast doubt on thousands of tireless grass roots conservationists?

I'm heading up to Salmon to volunteer for capture/collaring efforts tomorrow for a few days. Did it last year and was hooked. Tons of opportunities for folks to step up. What project are you working on later this spring?

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[MuleyFever]

Most states also have a raffle tag, nothing stopping you from buying tickets.

Thanks for letting me know.

 

[Doc Holliday]

mainly just interested in people's opinion on how these raffles impact the avg guy?

I'd say the main impact on me is the balance in my checking account going down an extra couple hundred dollars every time a new raffle comes out

 

[mike.adams.467]

I'd like to know what is actually getting done with the profits from these things that are supposed to go back into conservation.

Me too. It would be interesting to see if sheep numbers have actually increased in some of these areas.

 

[cbeard64]

I echo what was said above. Most of the raffle tags I am aware of buy the hunts and use the vast majority of the excess directly for conservation. This includes both the state/provincial tags and the conservation group tags.

SFW in Utah is a notable exception and much ink has been spilled on that subject. I assume that for-profits like Epic Outdoors, Huntin’ Fool, etc may be exceptions too but haven’t delved into that subject too deeply.

I know Governor’s tag $$$ go almost 100% back into conservation.

I don’t believe either are contributing directly to the escalation of hunt costs but do reflect that escalation. The huge $$$ we are beginning to see for auction tags may begin to indirectly affect hunt costs as outfitters begin to more and more realize the incredible demand for sheep hunts. But I believe that train has already left the station too…..

 

[ColeyG]

It’s incredibly easy to find that out. Some people even participate in such efforts. I’ll be going to Idaho to help on a project this spring. Every single organization shows exactly what they do with the money to help the sheep. Guzzlers, predator control, test and remove, transplants, relocations, grazing allotment retirements among many more.

Let your fingers do the walking…

What have YOU done to help the resource other than cast doubt on thousands of tireless grass roots conservationists?

Apologies. I did speak pretty generally and cast a pretty wide net with my comment.

That having been said, not every single organization is as transparent as the Idaho Wild Sheep example posted above. Several "conservation" groups that claim to work on behalf of Alaska fish and wildlife put out exactly zero information about how the funds they collect are used. None.

Others, such as the Wild Sheep Foundation, include some general information about how much money was given to certain agencies, but what was that money actually used for and how did that benefit animals is often unclear.

As for my contributions, I've spent a fair amount of both my time and money on causes that I think will make an actual difference on the ground and will continue to do so. To get either from me I need to know what specific project they are going towards and how the fish and wildlife stand to benefit.

 

[MntHunter]

I'd like to know what is actually getting done with the profits from these things that are supposed to go back into conservation.

For what it worth I was a board member for one of the WSF chapters, we did a lot of different projects (guzzlers, predator control, purchasing of grazing rights, and capture/relocation. As a chapter we couldn't necessarily fund the whole project but we contributed. A lot of those contributions came from the proceeds of raffles.

It is actually really cool to work closely with the chapters, you get to see all of the efforts being done across North America and how many people really care about the future of hunting.