Hunt planning question

[Conroy]

I have a couple of questions about applying for points in various states for different species. I am trying to build up points for different animals so that I would be able to have something to hunt each year in the future. Being from Wisconsin I have always focused on Whitetail and Bear hunting for the most part. I currently can or will be able to draw for Bear in MN 2015, Bear in WI 2016, Whitetail in IA 2016. Last year I applied for my first points in WY, and I have 1 each for Elk, Antelope, Mule Deer. Looking at all the of the different state’s regulations and drawings has been somewhat confusing and overwhelming. I am trying to decide which states I should focus on for western hunts. Every hunt will be DIY and somewhat on a budget. I am thinking that I will apply for all 3 points in WY this year again, but list an out of reach unit for my first choice and then an easy to draw unit as my second choice. If I am correct, I can still build points and hunt in the 2nd unit if I am chosen. I understand that the easier to draw units are harder to access or they lack trophy animals. I plan on taking my son out next fall for an Antelope or Muley hunt if we do draw. I am not worried about size of the horns, but instead the experience, as this will be new to both of us. My main questions are, does this sound like a good plan, and what other states should I be looking at for future hunts? Eventually I would like to focus on “trophy units” as my points build up and I gain experience. If I don’t draw anything for a year or two it won’t be the end of the world as I can still hunt around here for Whitetail. Thanks in advance to you all.

Chris

 

[Craig Van Arsdale]

First question is are you weapon specific? What animals are you really interested in? You can pick the states you want to apply in and the species based on that. Also budget needs to be a question as well. How much are you willing to spend to build points.

 

[realunlucky]

My suggestion would be to avoid points and try and focus on OTC units or low point units you can hunt yearly or every couple years and learn those. You can spend a bunch of money buying points and chasing a TROPHY unit. Most states take only top point holders and you are starting way behind. That said determining your goals amount your willing to spend and years your willing to wait. My personal plan involves the above while hoping to draw a really great tag. As a sidenote I probably could have gone on a good guided hunt for the money I've spent on points. Just something to think about

 

[Conroy]

Thanks for the quick replies. As far as my hunt budget goes, I am thinking about $5,000 including tags. That being said, I don’t want to burn that up in preference points. I will have approximately 15 days including travel time from WI. As far as species go, I think Elk and Muley are at the top of my list right now. I chose Antelope as something to wet my feet with so to speak. I use bow and rifle, but I am not tied into any particular method. I could probably just do a guided hunt, but I really want to figure it out myself (with your help here of course). I really enjoy putting everything together and doing the work. I am just not sure how to get started.

 

[realunlucky]

Look to Montana their tags cost slightly more but that opens the availability for every/ every other year in the same unit. Also Montana combination elk/ deer tags together sweetens the deal. Being from Wisconsin, Montana logistics are pretty good. Wyoming has good hunting with general tags also but plan on every other year for elk and deer could make you a couple years depending on your choice of region. If your lucky utah is a hybrid draw where everyone gets a shot to draw, odds are low though because of low number of non resident tags issued. New Mexico has no points and you can purchase land owner tags that can be used unit wide that can be had in your price range. I like that everyone is equal in the draw but have yet to draw my dream tag simply because tons of applicants decrease odds. People that continually draw good tags are tight lipped about their strategy.

 

[Craig Van Arsdale]

You could stay very busy with MT, CO and WY building points and hunting OTC. And they are closest to you.

 

[IdyllwildArcher]

My suggestion would be to avoid points and try and focus on OTC units or low point units you can hunt yearly or every couple years and learn those. You can spend a bunch of money buying points and chasing a TROPHY unit. Most states take only top point holders and you are starting way behind. That said determining your goals amount your willing to spend and years your willing to wait. My personal plan involves the above while hoping to draw a really great tag. As a sidenote I probably could have gone on a good guided hunt for the money I've spent on points. Just something to think about

This may be true in Colorado for every species except deer, but...

With all due respect, I disagree 100%. Applying for points is an investment in the future. After 15 years of doing it, you start to reap the rewards of more regular hunting and you can get lucky early, especially if you diversify your applications with some easier to draw tags.

There are certainly states and species that going on a guided onetime hunt will actually save you money, but then you're giving up a few things: 1. The satisfaction of doing it DIY. 2. Future tags for multiple hunts of that species. 3. Limiting what species you can get. 4. Losing the advantage of applying for multiple species in one state.

If you decide to just do one moose hunt in your life instead of apply in multiple states, you give up the opportunity to hunt Shiras ever and moose is the best example of a species where you can just go on a guided hunt in Canada for the price of applying in multiple states for multiple years.

There are states like Utah where the cost of applying is low, and including multiple animals doesn't increase the price much. The hunting license can be used for two years if you buy it at the end of the app period the first year and app in the beginning of the app period the second year. In this way, it costs about $80 a year to apply for several species.

You have to learn the differences between the systems and that will take some reading, but it's also an investment. Look at this site for a quick rundown on how it works. It's a brief write up from Randy Newberg on elk and the prices are outdated, but it gives you an idea of where to start:

http://www.rmef.org/TheHunt/Before/NonresidentApplications.aspx

Like Craig asked, what weapon do you use and how much do you want to spend per year? What are your goals exactly? Trophy quality, species, and how many hunts do you want to go on in 10, 20, and 30 years?

To give you an idea, I apply for about 30 hunts per year and spend about $1400/yr that I'll never see again and borrow about 4-6 grand/yr to various Fish and game depts for 2-3 months that I get back if I don't get the tag. Alot of my apps are for the best deal:trophy value so I skip some of the ID, WY, NM, and AZ hunts so you can spend a lot more or a lot less.

You can PM me if you want to go into detail.

 

[tipsntails7]

My advice and take it for what it's worth.. Get in the woods as much as possible. I personally disagree with the person above me in some aspects. I would much rather be in the woods chasing elk then sitting at home applying everywhere. I don't want to hunt in 15-20 years I want to Hunt now who knows where I'm gonna be in 20 years. It will make you a better woodsman and a better hunter overall the more you chase the game your after. I think it's foolish to never chase elk but spend 15 years applying for a trophy tag and then get out there and have no clue what your doing. But then again 400 inch Bulls have never been what I'm after.

That's not to say I don't apply because I do, for moose, sheep and bighorn. Also most guys don't have 7 grand hanging out just to use on tags or apps, if that's what it cost me to hunt I'd never see the field.

 

[Where's Bruce?]

My suggestion would be to avoid points and try and focus on OTC units or low point units you can hunt yearly or every couple years and learn those. You can spend a bunch of money buying points and chasing a TROPHY unit. Most states take only top point holders and you are starting way behind. That said determining your goals amount your willing to spend and years your willing to wait. My personal plan involves the above while hoping to draw a really great tag. As a sidenote I probably could have gone on a good guided hunt for the money I've spent on points. Just something to think about

Solid advice! This is what I do. OTC is the way to go.

 

[Shrek]

Between Montana , Idaho , and Colorado I can go hunt elk , mule deer , and bear every year basically otc and never worry about points and if I will be able to hunt. I don't guage the success of my hunts on the size of the decorations I take home but rather on the experience and the meat in the freezer. Decorations are nice but they are way down on my list of priorities. Take your money and time and research an otc area that you can hunt year after year and learn and you will be successful. Apply for the premium unit in the state where you intend to hunt and get the point but take the general tag and hunt. You only have a limited number of years you will be able to hunt in this life and you are a fool if you sit home gathering points for the dream hunt and waste even one fall you could be hunting. Jmo.

 

[charvey9]

There has to be a comprehensive guide somewhere, but I haven't found it. There was a great Rokslide blogpost last year that was mule deer specific, would be great to get the same insight into multiple species.

I agree that getting in the woods as much as posible with OTC tags is also my most important goal, but can also afford to invest a little in the future. Last year, without much direction, I applied for points in just about every state I'd ever want to hunt big game that I could afford. Colorado was the one exception, because I just could not afford the upfront cost of applying for goat and sheep in that state.

At the moment, I don't have time to hunt in any of these states, and have enough fun just trying to fill my Oregon tags...but hoping that 10, 15, 20 years from now I have the time, and the points to start cashing in.

 

[Rizzy]

It will cost you a lot more to apply in multiple states than it will to just buy a land owner tag every other year or so. Too many already have to much of a head start on you for the genuine premium tags.
I think you will have much better results hunting the same OTC unit every year until you get familiar with it.

 

[realunlucky]

I think that is the disconnect here if you start today and invest for 10/15 you will still be behind all the top units. So you'll still have to get lucky and draw. That said you can't win if you don't play just like the lotto ( does anyone win that?) My point is collecting points does offer options but those options need to weighted against there cost and for how many years and the cost to play is only raising. If you take wily archers utah example and look at your total odds its like playing the lotto. Most premiere units have two or three nonresident tags. 50% of those tags are reserved for max point holders if you played our point game starting now you'll never get in the max point group because they draw so few tags. In Utah everyone is entered for the other 50% of nonresident tags so you can get lucky but you are completing with everyone and all there combined tries they get for each point. You'll have better odds coming to banquet and entering for those nonresident tags which is pretty reasonable considering the once in lifetime species you can apply for and that people have to show up in person to enter which lowers applicants. Look at Colorado and see point creep in action many states aren't far behind. All I'm saying is be realistic and a plan to use your points. I have to many points to"waste" hunting a low point unit in Colorado but always couple points behind a desired unit hardly makes sense to keep playing but I've invested all those years. Inability I'll cash out for a lesser unit. If I would have hunted that lesser unit the first year I could have drawn it I would already be hunting it a second time. Where I would have already increased my success rate just by being familiar with the lay of the land and hopefully have multiple spots I can check for animals from experience.

 

[MuleyFever]

The point game if a tough one these days. I have been applying in a few states for about 5 years and have yet to draw any NR tag. I wish I would have used my CO points a couple years ago because I too would have hunted it twice by now.

I don't know what direction I will go once I get to burn my points but I would strongly consider a plan that does not have me building points like I have started now. Maybe pick a couple dream tags and a couple OTC units to hunt every year or so.

 

[Conroy]

There is a ton of good information here. I really do appreciate everyone's input. I have a lot to think about and study up on. I can see the point about hunting OTC Units to build experience and knowledge as well as hopefully taking some meat home once in a while. I am thinking that I will look at these units and put a plan together to get out and hunt as soon as possible. I may still have some questions along the way and will most likely seek out your help. I really like this site and the people on here. If I can ever help anyone with Wisconsin deer or bear, let me know.

 

[charvey9]

I think the other disconnect is that everyone putting in for points is only doing it to try and draw that once in a lifetime unit some day in each state, that probably isn't realiztic. I just want to get enough points where I can put in and draw a decent unit when I have the time to go and hunt out of state.

 

[Craig Van Arsdale]

I think some of you guys are missing the point. Nobody here is advocating to not hunt and wait 10+ years for a trophy tag. I personally apply in 11 states and am building points for a lot of species only a few of the hunts I apply for fall into that "Trophy" category. The rest are all hunts that I will likely draw in 3-6 years and some every couple years. Except for sheep moose and goat of course. Although I have already drawn a Shiras moose tag. I hunt every year no matter what. But from here on out I should be able to hunt more quality tags than OTC which is MY goal. To each their own. And as a side note I absolutely love all of the research that goes into this process it's made me s better hunter/scouted no doubt.

 

[Conroy]

Craig4791 I still plan on putting in for some points to get into some tough to draw units, but I will hunt OTC Units in the meantime to gain experience. I just won't apply to as many as I was planning on. I won't spread myself out as thin so to speak. I'll research for decent units and scout while I am out there. I will spend my money wisely this way.

 

[tipsntails7]

I think some of you guys are missing the point. Nobody here is advocating to not hunt and wait 10+ years for a trophy tag. I personally apply in 11 states and am building points for a lot of species only a few of the hunts I apply for fall into that "Trophy" category. The rest are all hunts that I will likely draw in 3-6 years and some every couple years. Except for sheep moose and goat of course. Although I have already drawn a Shiras moose tag. I hunt every year no matter what. But from here on out I should be able to hunt more quality tags than OTC which is MY goal. To each their own. And as a side note I absolutely love all of the research that goes into this process it's made me s better hunter/scouted no doubt.

Craig I think that our location plays a role as well. You and I are a short drive from idaho and oregon, where for the most part we can hunt whatever we want OTC. Couple that with the access Cali grants for most everything (except for the debacle that is antelope and elk). I think a lot of guys that do not live outer at have to choose, points or go OTC, I woul imagine most guys don't have the funds to do both.

 

[Where's Bruce?]

It will cost you a lot more to apply in multiple states than it will to just buy a land owner tag every other year or so. Too many already have to much of a head start on you for the genuine premium tags.
I think you will have much better results hunting the same OTC unit every year until you get familiar with it.

How ya figure? A tag app runs under $20, an OTC elk tag in places like Oregon and Utah and Colorado is like $500...and a landowner tag averages $5-$17K.