Hunt Backcountry Podcast 512: Bowhunter Data

[HighUintas]

I think it was pretty clear from the interview that the archer's experience likely played into the success rate with the mechanical over the fixed. He mentioned it several times

 

[huntnful]

I think it was pretty clear from the interview that the archer's experience likely played into the success rate with the mechanical over the fixed. He mentioned it several times

Exactly. That’s why I was curious if the guy listened to the podcast. It was stated several times.

 

[stan_wa]

I think it’s important to remember when looking at “statistics“ that correlation does not indicate causation.
So this makes me think either I need to change my ways or the factors that lead to the wounding rates are less obvious than surface level. I shoot a 520 grain arrow at 292 ft./s out of an 80 pound bow. So I’m shooting too much poundage too heavy of and to heavy of an arrow per the data .
I generally used fixed blades however I was convinced to buy my first round of mechanicals. I also think due to the energy my set up is producing a mechanical seems like a reasonable choice as I can’t imagine I suffer penetration problems.

It seems possible to me that many people might struggle with higher poundage due to fatigue or holding times. But I have a 70 and an 80 pound bow and confident I shoot the 80 pound bow better. Also with my arrows going 290 feet a second I don’t know that there’s a reason to go much faster with a lighter arrow as There is plenty of Lore on the Internet that Says you start getting accuracy issues once you go too fast . Seems like over 300 ft./s so should I consider changing my setup ?
I suspect that the reason higher poundage is bad is holding times . This can be mitigated by physical strength, training and frequent shooting. I suspecte that the reason lighter arrows is good , is shorter time of flight and less opportunity for the animals to respond to the sound of the bow but this is mitigated by an arrow that’s already at the upper end of the speed range.

 

[Ferrulewax]

One tidbit that I found to be some good food for thought was them discussing what would be shot in a broadheads only tournament. No one in their right mind would choose a fixed head in a tournament over a mechanical head, you can be sure with money on the line poeple want every advantage they could get. If accuracy is the most important factor, then seems like mechanicals get the nod.

Just Like the small caliber debate, the most likely reason for poor performance is that WE suck. Just like a small caliber is more forgiving to less than perfect fundamentals, so is a mechanical head. A little torque, a little wind misjudgment, or a poor release, and that mechanical head will be a bit less harsh on us downrange. Maybe in a perfect world, with a perfect tune, and a perfect archer, fixed heads fly just as well, but unfortunately I am far from perfect.

 

[180ls1]

One tidbit that I found to be some good food for thought was them discussing what would be shot in a broadheads only tournament. No one in their right mind would choose a fixed head in a tournament over a mechanical head, you can be sure with money on the line poeple want every advantage they could get. If accuracy is the most important factor, then seems like mechanicals get the nod.

Just Like the small caliber debate, the most likely reason for poor performance is that WE suck. Just like a small caliber is more forgiving to less than perfect fundamentals, so is a mechanical head. A little torque, a little wind misjudgment, or a poor release, and that mechanical head will be a bit less harsh on us downrange. Maybe in a perfect world, with a perfect tune, and a perfect archer, fixed heads fly just as well, but unfortunately I am far from perfect.

Yup, one of the reasons I hunt with a target bow and shoot mechanicals. I've done it all and that's a setup that really works well for me, in field on animals.

 

[huntnful]

One tidbit that I found to be some good food for thought was them discussing what would be shot in a broadheads only tournament. No one in their right mind would choose a fixed head in a tournament over a mechanical head, you can be sure with money on the line poeple want every advantage they could get. If accuracy is the most important factor, then seems like mechanicals get the nod.

Just Like the small caliber debate, the most likely reason for poor performance is that WE suck. Just like a small caliber is more forgiving to less than perfect fundamentals, so is a mechanical head. A little torque, a little wind misjudgment, or a poor release, and that mechanical head will be a bit less harsh on us downrange. Maybe in a perfect world, with a perfect tune, and a perfect archer, fixed heads fly just as well, but unfortunately I am far from perfect.

Nailed it 100%

I think it’s important to remember when looking at “statistics“ that correlation does not indicate causation.
So this makes me think either I need to change my ways or the factors that lead to the wounding rates are less obvious than surface level. I shoot a 520 grain arrow at 292 ft./s out of an 80 pound bow. So I’m shooting too much poundage too heavy of and to heavy of an arrow per the data .
I generally used fixed blades however I was convinced to buy my first round of mechanicals. I also think due to the energy my set up is producing a mechanical seems like a reasonable choice as I can’t imagine I suffer penetration problems.

It seems possible to me that many people might struggle with higher poundage due to fatigue or holding times. But I have a 70 and an 80 pound bow and confident I shoot the 80 pound bow better. Also with my arrows going 290 feet a second I don’t know that there’s a reason to go much faster with a lighter arrow as There is plenty of Lore on the Internet that Says you start getting accuracy issues once you go too fast . Seems like over 300 ft./s so should I consider changing my setup ?
I suspect that the reason higher poundage is bad is holding times . This can be mitigated by physical strength, training and frequent shooting. I suspecte that the reason lighter arrows is good , is shorter time of flight and less opportunity for the animals to respond to the sound of the bow but this is mitigated by an arrow that’s already at the upper end of the speed range.

You shoot the 80lb bow better because of the holding weight, not because it’s an 80lb bow. I also have 70lb and 80lb bows. I run the 70lb bow with less let off, so that it has more holding weight as well. Shoot a 520gr. arrow at 290fps out of the 80lber. With a larger mechanical it zipped through a bull at 67 yards.

I definitely think you’re right everything can’t just be a blanket statement, but there’s no reason to take it as such. It’s a wide variety of people and archers. Probably some heavy ass arrows going out of super slow bows. And maybe some guys having to sky draw just to barely get back 70lbs. It’s not a “if you shoot heavy arrows you HAVE to wound more” or “if you shoot a high poundage you HAVE to wound more” type of conversation. Just general information collected over a wide variety of people to draw minor conclusions from.

 

[HighUintas]

Yes I forgot that what @Ferrulewax said also discussed. Mechanicals are wayyy more forgiving on time and accuracy than fixed. The only reason I switched to fixed was for elk because you "need" them.

Using fixed blades hasn't stopped me from putting crappy shots on game, that's for sure and I've also broken a fixed blade on a shoulder. The fixed blade didn't perform any better than a mechanical would have. It was my dry spell and lack of head game in the moment that caused it.

 

[chasewild]

Also part of Jeremy’s study, so I won’t repeat his findings. I will say that he is an obsessive bow tech; which is why I would drive down from Colorado to spend the day with him. He’s a true class act, opened the shop early for me so we could shoot and tune without pressure.

I made bad shots real close, and in that 50ish range all with fixed heads and heavy arrows (450-480). I never shot mechanicals. But I certainly would have no problem if I didn’t like what I’ve found so far.


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[Beendare]

I think it’s important to remember when looking at “statistics“ that correlation does not indicate causation.

Exactly....

 

[IDVortex]

500+ total samples on western game

broadhead type / wound rate
mechanical / 12%
fixed / 23%

Arrow weight / Wound rate
0-400 / 14%
401-450 / 12%
450-500 / 20%
500+ / 32%

Shot distance / wound rate
0-30yd / 14%
31-40yd / 25%
41-50yd / 19%
51-60yd / 9%
61-70yd / 17%
71-80yd / 16%
80+ was too small sample size

I'll have to listen to the podcast.

It's interesting that the 31-40yd range had the most wound rate. Presume it's due to the avg hunter thinking they can make the shot without much practice?

Really interesting about the 51-60 range.

 

[stan_wa]

Really interesting about the 51-60 range.

I think they talked about this and they assumed that it cause there is lots of practice as 60 yards its the like the default practice range for many shooters.
I was thinking it far enough to be away from the animal ducking the string and close enough to still make good hits.
my guess is 31-40 is the opposite its the distance where string ducking is maximized.

 

[IDVortex]

I think they talked about this and they assumed that it cause there is lots of practice as 60 yards its the like the default practice range for many shooters.
I was thinking it far enough to be away from the animal ducking the string and close enough to still make good hits.
my guess is 31-40 is the opposite its the distance where string ducking is maximized.

That's logical.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Not sure we can draw super meaningful conclusions from this, the one elk I shot and did not recover was just a bad shot, got 1 lung vs 2, bull was only 32 yards away but was quartering to more that I thought he was. 28.5 draw 70 lbs, 505 grn arrow with iron wills… I usually have mixed mech (sevr & iron will) in my quiver, honestly have faith and have killed with both, but all the quick kills came from accurate shooting above all.