Humbled Again

[bhylton]

I cant imagine very much. If you hit shoulder your probably screwed either way. If you impact the vital area, your good either way.

What arrow weight and speed do you expect to get out of the 45# blacktail? apologies ifs mentioned earlier.

 

[Btaylor]

10 pounds can make a huge difference at 20 yards if it means the difference in consistently hitting a softball vs a beachball. Hunting truisms that make great goals, accuracy kills, patience feeds the snake and legs feed the wolf.

Be physically able to go as along as it takes, patient enough to wait for the perfect opportunity to strike once you are there and accurate enough to end it quickly.

 

[YankyMate]

Good choice especially if you're more confident with it. I hunt with a 50# bow after stepping down from a 70# compound a couple years ago. Effective range went from around 50yd to 10 for a couple of months; definitely humbling. Now I have supreme confidence out to 30-35yd and would take that bow on any hunt in North America. Stick with it dude, you got it.

 

[Where's Bruce?]

I'm making a padded sling for it so I can carry it hands-free in the field and protect it somewhat...taking a $7K bow into the Arizona backcountry is gonna F it up some but that's what I'm doing. Placement above all else...haven't chrono'ed the bow. But I figure if Beendare is losing (comparable) arrows "blowing through hogs" with his 45# recurve, penetration probably won't be an issue.

 

[Nick Muche]

You have a $7,000 bow? Did I read that right?

 

[R Davis]

You have a $7,000 bow? Did I read that right?

I was thinking the same thing?! What do you get for 7k? Seems like the basics of going down this traditional path have been completely skipped over, but maybe I’m off base here? I bet it’s a damn good looking bow though!

 

[FLAK]

Wait, What?? Did he say 7K?

 

[Where's Bruce?]

Yeah, after sales tax, quiver and 2 dozen arrows plus other accessories closer to 8...nice birthday gift eh? I blame one of the posters who put pics of in a thread. https://www.blacktailbows.com/store/p295/Inventory_Bow_-_Legacy_Series_"Gemsbok"_Elite_Recurve_w/_matching_hand-tooled_arm_guard_(64",_45#_@_28")_-_SOLD.html

 

[sneaky]

Blacktail makes a fine looking bow, but the performance doesn't match the prices they charge. I've never shot one of them that wowed me with its numbers, but they certainly do a fantastic job of fit and finish.

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[Where's Bruce?]

Blacktail makes a fine looking bow, but the performance doesn't match the prices they charge. I've never shot one of them that wowed me with its numbers, but they certainly do a fantastic job of fit and finish.

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I understand your view but I consider it more of a piece of fine art and heirloom than a stickbow. It's a pleasure to shoot and when I go to a public archery range people seem drawn to it. I wish you could have seen the looks this bow got at my last practice session at an outdoor range. I only practice to 25 yards with it but there were guys shooting at balloons with compound bows at 80 yards. I asked em if I could take a shot at their target just to see the look on their face…not intending to actually shoot but then they became so enamored with the Legacy they insisted I shoot. I figured **** it…here is another opportunity to damage my reputation. Drew back, let fly and damn if I didn’t miss a balloon by an inch. I was surprised I even hit the bale…pure dumb luck. I quit while I was ahead pretending to be hugely disappointed and shamed. LOL. It was the best day! People look at this bow and just marvel at the detail. My shallower side enjoys that. It is a pleasure to shoot and fits me well. I have a 27.5"DL and the longer bow is easier for me to shoot accurately. My hope is to kill a big elk and mountain lion with it and have the bow, mounts and photos left for my kids when I'm dust. I disagree with you about the performance issues...this bow performs magnificently.

 

[Kevin Dill]

Those Blacktail Legacy bows are simply amazing to behold. Consider an extra $6-$8k above basic bow value simply for the rare exotic woods and artistry in each bow. They're not my cup of tea, but that doesn't mean they aren't gorgeous and worth the money to those who buy them. Carved, engraved, inlaid, adorned and customized weapons are just another part of our hunting traditions.

I can't speak to the Blacktail's performance. I can assure you they are exceptionally well built bows with a reputation for being stable and forgiving. Norm Johnson has always kept the focus on hunting, even as his artistry evolved. Think Range Rover chassis covered by Lamborghini skin and you've got it.

 

[Steve O]

I can think of no reason to be shooting much more than 55lbs out of a recurve. Not only will you be able to shoot it much better but your shoulders will thank you.

After 20 years of being heavily invested in traditional archery it became apparent to me that maybe 5% of trad shooters have good form and the others shoot 45-50# no matter what their bow is marked; that’s about where they short draw to.

Fred Eichler shot his Super Slam with a 53# recurve.

The biggest mistake you can make with a stickbow is being overbowed. Learning with and moving up to a too heavy bow too soon leads to bad habits and reinforcing those bad habits over the years. Then that turns into target panic and that sucks.

Don’t rush, go to a coach and learn right. You don’t know as much as you think you do no matter who you are.

 

[TheTone]

I’m not trying to be a jerk but if you are this concerned with accuracy and consistency with the trad bow I think it’s time to leave it at home. You owe it to the animal to be proficient with your weapon. I know way too many trad guys that let their pride, ego and “dislike” of compounds get in the way and they have a pile of wounded critters to show for it

 

[sneaky]

I’m not trying to be a jerk but if you are this concerned with accuracy and consistency with the trad bow I think it’s time to leave it at home. You owe it to the animal to be proficient with your weapon. I know way too many trad guys that let their pride, ego and “dislike” of compounds get in the way and they have a pile of wounded critters to show for it

By that logic I know a ton of compound shooters who should use a crossbow because they can't hit anything with their compound. I owned an archery shop for years and saw it over and over. Drag the bow out of the case the week of season, grab some new arrows and broadheads, and come in the following week saying they shot 3 but couldn't find 'em. The trad guys practiced year round and didn't do that nonsense.

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[Kevin Dill]

I’m not trying to be a jerk but if you are this concerned with accuracy and consistency with the trad bow I think it’s time to leave it at home. You owe it to the animal to be proficient with your weapon. I know way too many trad guys that let their pride, ego and “dislike” of compounds get in the way and they have a pile of wounded critters to show for it

Respectfully disagree with this premise. Pre-compound....a recurve or longbow newbie would ALWAYS be concerned about their accuracy or proficiency. They had no other easy-to-shoot archery weapon to fall back on. Their only choice was to buck up and shoot/hunt hard until their accuracy and confidence came to the forefront. The existence of a compound bow doesn't imply things must be done differently. If that was the case, 99% of trad converts would never get away from their compounds. Taking the easier road is not what traditional bowhunting is about.

And for the record, there are plenty of compound guys out there without much proficiency....but we're not trying to keep them out of the woods, or brow-beat them into a crossbow or rifle.

 

[Where's Bruce?]

I’m not trying to be a jerk but if you are this concerned with accuracy and consistency with the trad bow I think it’s time to leave it at home. You owe it to the animal to be proficient with your weapon. I know way too many trad guys that let their pride, ego and “dislike” of compounds get in the way and they have a pile of wounded critters to show for it

I understand your point but nobody ever got proficient and successful by quitting and it's not like I'm some friggin' ahole who would intentionally take a shot I was unsure of. I know I hafta get close. I KNOW IT. I went from rifle to CB to trad as my stalking skills improved. I am relying on those far more than my shooting. It's also that realization that helped me conclude I didn't need 55 or 65 pound limbs so I dropped to my 45lb bow and am getting reacquainted.

Today I shot this. I practice daily at different distances with a full quiver attached to the bow. This spread is consistent with my norm right now.

15 yards





20 yards




25 yards



Those last couple of arrows were upsetting. But this is my reality today. I wasted a lot of valuable time horsing around with the 65lb limbs so returning back to 45 is uhhh....humbling. But I will stick with it now and should see the groups tighten to where they were before soon. The other wrinkle is I now shoot after my daily 2hr hike. I'm breathing hard, sweaty and tired. I'm doing my best to simulate the real-life situation. I committed to a traditional year and by God I will stick to it and if the elk presents me a broadside at 30 yards...I'm not releasing an arrow. I want 15, no more than 20 based on my current level of reliability shooting at this small Rhinehart buck. My first shots are always my best too...don't know why but appreciate that and hope that translates to the field. I'm your average guy learning something new but that doesn't automatically make me a "fling & pray" kinda guy. Far from it. This is the next nature progression to my hunting experience. I read Aron's STRUGGLESTICK article on this webpage and fully appreciate his emphasis on the need to get close. Real close. My moose was at ten feet when I drew...that experience was transformative. I want to be close. The juice of getting within petting distance is addictive. Once the arrow flies, the fun is over. You must work...either to find your animal or dress & pack it out. I don't wanna spend days trying to find a wounded animal. The solution is simple...don't release a shot you're unsure of. Like Callahan said, "A man's got to know his limitations."

I do find it helpful to shoot at a 3D like the buck above instead of the target I was using. Shooting at this target...



...feels less important than shooting at a target that looks like game. The vitals on the Broadhead Buck 3-D target are smaller than the 18-1 and fliers bug me more. That one pic at 25 yards hurts to look at. Sure hope I don't see that in the field. I am learning a lot here and I appreciate all the helpful advice and tips. Brace height adjustment, longer arrows, canting the bow for improved sight picture...everything I am learning from you guys is helping. Thanks.

 

[bhylton]

Thanks for showing your "reality"... dont see that very often these days. your 20yd + reminds me of my shooting before i started using a clicker and got control of my shot... it was ugly....

Keep at it!!

 

[Kevin Dill]

Respect.

 

[R Davis]

Looks like the difference between the 15yd group to the 20/25yd groups is a break down of form due to the distance getting in your head. It could be that you’re dropping the bow arm, peeking at the shot, or just the thought of missing is getting in your head. Try to establish a reliable gap at 15yd. Use the tip of your arrow, your shelf,the side plate, or any other features on your riser. Next, pay attention to where your string blur is at anchor, make absolute sure this stays the same shot to shot. String blur will help with the windage errors. Make all of this concrete and then step back to 20 and establish a solid 20yd gap with one of the features I said before. Don’t be afraid of shooting low while you establish this 20yd gap, stay honest until you establish this. You can then use this again to move back and so forth and so on. Lefts and rights are generally form issues like plucking. Ups and downs are either range estimation errors(which should not be in the equation right now) or an anchor which is not solid. You could add a clicker but those can lead to issues if not used correctly. You should use a feature of your face, like a feather to the nose or a nock in a certain place on your cheek for example, as a form of a draw check to reliably tell when you’re at anchor.

Post up a video of a couple shots and we could offer more advice.

 

[sneaky]

100% of my bad shots can be attributed to me. Not settling into my anchor is #1, and the most easily corrected. Lefts and rights are alignment issues that I can tell as soon as I release the shot. Once you know how a good shot "feels", then you just keep trying to replicate that. Don't be too proud to let down if the shot doesn't feel right either.

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