Howa Superlite 308win Field Evaluation

[Formidilosus]

Did you miss the part where I said exactly that? But still, if sending a rifle out, it’s a good idea to make sure it shoots. I had a rifle built custom by a reputable builder. He didn’t test fire it before shipped and when I got it, it didn’t feed. It had to go back. The guy builds world record setting rifles, but this one had a hiccup that should not have happened. I’m sure it very rarely does, but even the best companies make mistakes or have issues with products occasionally. That’s just business. But still, if sending something out, you should ensure that it performs. And yes, that’s how business (and leadership) works.

No- you should shoot and function test every rifle before it ships. Not cherry pick.

 

[grfox92]

Deleted to prevent thread derailment.

 

[swavescatter]

I'll go even further further and say truly impartial reviews should be from items purchased off the shelf, not provided by the company. So far, the free rifles are 0/2 so it doesn't seem like cherry-picking is happening. But then again, that requires a more of Form's time and money...

@Riflman maybe you can apply to be CEO of Rokslide! This place needs more of a Beverly Hills flair

 

[ElPollo]

No one has a 0% error rate. Everypne makes mistakes. When a company makes a mistake like this, we should give them the chance to make it right before we start crucifying them. All of this discussion of ensuring that review guns are perfect before they go out is not helpful. The goal of these companies should be a low failure rate and a robust customer support response for those failures.

 

[Kurts86]

No one has a 0% error rate. Everypne makes mistakes. When a company makes a mistake like this, we should give them the chance to make it right before we start crucifying them. All of this discussion of ensuring that review guns are perfect before they go out is not helpful. The goal of these companies should be a low failure rate and a robust customer support response for those failures.

Yes but for consumer goods that should be a 1-4% service call/rma rate of goods sold.

The reality is that nowhere near 96% of the bolt action rifles on the shelf at Scheels/Bass Pro/etc feed reliably.

I have a sneaking suspicion Legacy Sports International is sourcing stocks from Stocky’s in Florida, buying barreled Howa actions from Japan and assembling them with the extras from the cast of Reno 911 and the former QC manager from century arms.

 

[Axlrod]

I wasn't bashing SWFA or FOXPRO. Quite the contrary. But too many companies, even gun and hunting companies these days have become commercialized and acquired and in many cases are out of touch. Just like other industries. I mean how did bud light end up like it did? They got so big they completely forgot who their demographic was, and let idiots run the marketing and in one fell swoop, lost billions in market cap. This thread will live forever online, and will do permanent damage to the Superlite line, which was new and exciting. Won't kill it, but does not help. This thread should never have happened and a tested rifle that shot super well should have been sent. Kids that were eating tide pods a few years ago are running marketing now for gun and hunting companies. Death from within. And it's bad leaders running these companies, that are hiring them in the first place. Now more than ever, branding and marketing is most important. Even more so than having a good product. You can sell a ton of crap product with good branding and marketing, but you can't sell the best product with crappy branding and marketing. That's a fact proven over 30 years of experience.

My "exhibit A" would be Leupold- LOTS of negative ink spilled on them, and they are still selling a lot of scopes. And there are many more examples out there.

I agree that these companies need to do a lot better job. But I like to see these nonbiased reviews that Form does. It should cause change to the manufacturing process. But if I were in charge of one of these companies ALL of the review & testing would be done in-house BEFORE the first shipment to the public.

In the past 4 years I have:
Returned a C.A. Ridgeline twice to be fixed.
Returned a S&W 22 Mag Revolver twice to be fixed.
Returned 2 Ruger American 17 HMR twice each for failure to extract and then had to fix them both myself.
Returned for refund a Gun Werks bipod non-functioning out of the box.
Returned 2 Gun Werks range finders non-functioning out of the box.

 

[Riflman]

I'll go even further further and say truly impartial reviews should be from items purchased off the shelf, not provided by the company. So far, the free rifles are 0/2 so it doesn't seem like cherry-picking is happening.

Agreed. Marketing and advertising is all theater. That’s why influencers pimp products from their sponsors as best, but when a sponsor leaves and a new one comes on board you know what happens. We were doing ads in over 30 different monthly and weekly hunting and shooting publications, and in many we had multiple clients in each. That’s a lot of ad buys and creative. These publications and nearly all media will grease the wheels that feed them. Like any other industry. Outdoor TV is pay to play, and so was print. Publications would offer to let advertisers write their own reviews. I hated that, but that’s how it works for most pubs. And the ones who say they don’t will not bite the hands that feed them. There are not many reviewers who claim to do unbias reviews, and even fewer who are “truly” unbias and are not influenced in some way, even if it’s the hope of future sponsorship. I negotiated a lot of sponsor and influencer deals too. The up and comers are hungry and let’s face it, one cannot really trust any review. Use your own judgement and choose your sources of information wisely.

@Riflman maybe you can apply to be CEO of Rokslide! This place needs more of a Beverly Hills flair

I’m actually from Manitoba, Canada. Had a horse ranch out there with a shooting range on my property out to 400 yards and commuted into Winnipeg every day. Bowhunted huge Canadian whitetail on my own property. Hunted ducks and geese within short quad rides from my house. Raised my kids there. It was a great life that I miss. I operated the business there for years, then moved to California in 2012 (long story). I never planned to stay…but women…. I finally moved to North Dakota in September 2023. The business is still In Cali, but I work remote now and travel when I need to. So Cali yes and no.

As for the rest, the other post is exactly right, that’s why there are warranties and returns and lemon laws. No one is perfect. Not everyone is honest either. Anyone who’s ever bought a vehicle, even a high end or reliable brand, has likely had a warranty claim.

Let’s face it… if you own a business and have some control over a situation, you’re likely wise to exercise it, like making sure a rifle shoots. Unless it was agreed to be a random from the warehouse. I think any reasonable person would do the same.

 

[180ls1]

Agreed. Marketing and advertising is all theater. That’s why influencers pimp products from their sponsors as best, but when a sponsor leaves and a new one comes on board you know what happens. We were doing ads in over 30 different monthly and weekly hunting and shooting publications, and in many we had multiple clients in each. That’s a lot of ad buys and creative. These publications and nearly all media will grease the wheels that feed them. Like any other industry. Outdoor TV is pay to play, and so was print. Publications would offer to let advertisers write their own reviews. I hated that, but that’s how it works for most pubs. And the ones who say they don’t will not bite the hands that feed them. There are not many reviewers who claim to do unbias reviews, and even fewer who are “truly” unbias and are not influenced in some way, even if it’s the hope of future sponsorship. I negotiated a lot of sponsor and influencer deals too. The up and comers are hungry and let’s face it, one cannot really trust any review. Use your own judgement and choose your sources of information wisely.


I’m actually from Manitoba, Canada. Had a horse ranch out there with a shooting range on my property out to 400 yards and commuted into Winnipeg every day. Bowhunted huge Canadian whitetail on my own property. Hunted ducks and geese within short quad rides from my house. Raised my kids there. It was a great life that I miss. I operated the business there for years, then moved to California in 2012 (long story). I never planned to stay…but women…. I finally moved to North Dakota in September 2023. The business is still In Cali, but I work remote now and travel when I need to. So Cali yes and no.

As for the rest, the other post is exactly right, that’s why there are warranties and returns and lemon laws. No one is perfect. Not everyone is honest either. Anyone who’s ever bought a vehicle, even a high end or reliable brand, has likely had a warranty claim.

Let’s face it… if you own a business and have some control over a situation, you’re likely wise to exercise it, like making sure a rifle shoots. Unless it was agreed to be a random from the warehouse. I think any reasonable person would do the same.

Fellow business owner here as well. You might find the "Rogan Elk Blood" thread amusing. It provides some great insight into just how out of touch the average consumer/employee is with marketing/sales/business.

 

[brockel]

Picked one of these up for my wife for Christmas.

Luckily, we are not having the problems the OP is having.

7MM-08.

100 yard group in a howling wind left to right.

Gona take it out there and shoot it again in normal conditions to see what it can do. Recoil was very mild with the factory muzzle brake.

The magazine fits in there like his does but the bolt does not ride over the shell.
View attachment 699118View attachment 699119


View attachment 699117

Zero issues with my 6.5 creedmoor either. Shoots the loads I’ve tried quite well

 

[Nicaburns]

I’m definitely interested in Form’s testing once he gets another. Mine is in 6.5 Creed and has been a good shooter but only has a few hundred rounds through it so far.
To echo his findings, I also had bolt rub on the stock. The method for mounting the recoil pad is ridiculously bad. There is no support in the stock there so they run a screw through the CF and hope it holds. I reinforced that on the original stock and the stockys VG that I later swapped the action to.
I bought the rifle knowing that it had shortcomings but wanted a super light rifle under $1k that shot pretty well and I certainly got that.
Count me tuned in for your testing results Form! Thanks!

 

[ddowning]

Well no shit. I'm specifically talking about this one and the CRF 308 that had the bedding issues. Both problems and the root of my post has to do with rifles that came from the factory with issues out of the box.

Nearly every mass produced "factory" gun I have ever bought has needed attention. I have not messed with a tikka, but the recoil lug on those is unique. High end stocks/chassis and "custom" actions are the only things that have been bolt up and shoot.

 

[sz28]

I just picked up one of these in .308 with the 20in barrel. I haven't shot it yet, but was definitely concerned about the cycling when I read this thread. I test cycled multiple rounds through it repeatedly this morning and everything appears good on mine. Curious to see how this turns out.

 

[Mike 338]

No one has a 0% error rate. Everypne makes mistakes. When a company makes a mistake like this, we should give them the chance to make it right before we start crucifying them. All of this discussion of ensuring that review guns are perfect before they go out is not helpful. The goal of these companies should be a low failure rate and a robust customer support response for those failures.

They could always send out 10 rifles for review. If you peruse through the thread, there are some known trigger issues from more than a few end-users.

Very true about allowing the company to recover. That said, those companies with highly reliable/functioning guns and good support are pretty much legendary already. There aren't to many that can boast both attributes though. The reviewer here mentioned sourcing a 2nd one. That's way good enough for me, assuming a corporate guy in a polo shirt, braided belt and dockers doesn't send out a ringer.

I do wonder how much time/resources were devoted to picking the paint job on the stock as compared to how much time was devoted to insuring that each example that leaves the dock was as close to perfect as possible.

 

[Riflman]

One thing I noticed in the thread was the lack of free-floated barrel, but for years, lightweight rifles like model sevens and several ultralights had upward pressure at the tip of the stock and were NOT free floated. This was common when using thin barrels and tiny forestocks. Of course many of us modified them at home, including me. I have an old model 7 with factory original wood stock that I pillar bedded back in like 1994. The action was trued and blueprinted and I had a badger ordinance recoil lug pinned to it. Lilja and Vais were both clients, so I put on a 27” Lilja 1:8 6mm barrel chamberd in 6BR with a Vais quiet brake. I just had legendary builder Mike Bryant rebuild it. He cerakoted the stock, rechambered the Lilja to 6mm Creedmoor and then also cut me a 1:7.5 heavy fluted 22” barrel with brake in 243 Win. He added a new recoil pad and installed a stealth AICS DBM. I should have it back by early next week and am pretty excited. It will be like a brand new rifle with two barrels ready to slay prairie dogs and maybe shoot a match in the next couple of months.

I still plan to pick up one of these super lights. Though I wish the 6mm ARC was available. Or the 6.5 PRC (which technically needs a slightly longer action but perhaps with a non-binder mag it would have enough length). The 6mm arc is available in the mini, but that one is heavier than the superlight despite the shorter action.

 

[Weldor]

I need to see more field use before a purchase. It looks very inviting at 4 lbs and change. I am in the same boat, I just want a shooter, don't want to have to tinker with it all the time. To bad they don't make the Adirondack or Fieldcraft anymore.

 

[Riflman]

I need to see more field use before a purchase. It looks very inviting at 4 lbs and change. I am in the same boat, I just want a shooter, don't want to have to tinker with it all the time. To bad they don't make the Adirondack or Fieldcraft anymore.

Right before covid hit, I was leaving California and going to move back to Canada, so I wanted to get rid of some of guns. The import fees weren't worth the hassle I thought. So I sold my least expensive rifles, including a TC venture in 270 win. I lapped the barrel with JB, did some minor bedding and the rifle would shoot half inch groups with pretty much any factory ammo I put in it. Federal Blue box, Hornady Fullbore with GMX solids. I left that rifle with a broker and it sold for $275. I think my take was $200. I was an idiot. It was one of the most accurate rifles with factory ammo I had. I still regret it today.

But that was a Unicorn. Most rifles even at $1000+ can't shoot very well. Even semi-custom and custom guns don't guarantee less than 1" three shot at 100 yards, especially with factory loads. So I'm not sure what to think. I want one of these rifles, but I also want one that shoots. It would suck to get one with all the problems Form is having, and disappointing to have to do a bunch of work to it. I only want one because it seem like good value considering the weight, but if they won't shoot without a lot of work, then that's something different.

In todays world with CNC, I think it should be pretty easy for all MFGs to make rifles that shoot well. If the rifle needs some bedding, and maybe the forestock hogged out a bit, I can do that myself, but I don't see why a MFG can't make stocks that are consistent today either.

And the plastic trigger guard/action screw situation seems weird too. There is some plastic that is as strong as steel, so hopefully one can torque down the action without breaking the plastic, and if not, hopefully one can get parts if it splits. Perhaps the solution is to reinforce it with a metal backer or pillar for a ten of an ounce. Not sure. I would love to get into the business of building and selling rifles, and/or be able to tinker with that stuff during product development, and if I did, I would certainly be listening to comments in threads like this.

 

[sargent]

swapped scopes to the Maven RS1.2

What's up with the scope change? I thought there was finally a @Formidilosus - approved ultralight scope, then this!

 

[Formidilosus]

What's up with the scope change? I thought there was finally a @Formidilosus - approved ultralight scope, then this!

The UL is a critical scope to use at 10x regardless, and when a rifle is shooting 8+ MOA groups, the scope is one of the first things to swap.


As for “approve”- I’m not sure what you mean. I don’t “approve” any scope. In any case the UL did not “pass” the full evaluation.

 

[Riflman]

...and when a rifle is shooting 8+ MOA groups, the scope is one of the first things to swap.

The scope was my first thought. Even the best scopes can suddenly fail. That's why some of my rifles have QR rings, because on some of the more expensive hunts I used to take a backup scope that was zeroed and ready to go. Have you shot any groups yet with a different scope?

 

[Formidilosus]

The scope was my first thought. Even the best scopes can suddenly fail. That's why some of my rifles have QR rings, because on some of the more expensive hunts I used to take a backup scope that was zeroed and ready to go. Have you shot any groups yet with a different scope?

Have you read the thread?