Howa bbled action issues

[jksiller]

I’m about 40 rounds of quality factory ammo down the tube, and still showing inconsistency at 100 yds ( 2+ moa). I’ve taken it all apart, retorqued action screws, checked and retorqued bases and optic rings. I’ve done nothing except swap out the trigger to a Timney and am a little frustrated. I’ve read some other users having issues- did anybody come to a resolution? FYI it’s in a Krg bravo stock, mark 3 scope. I started at 55 in lbs on action screws, then went to 65, then went back to 55, torquing front screw first. 16” bull barrel, .308, let rifle rest every ~5 shots to cool down.
Bought to go back to bowhunting!

 

[hereinaz]

Try tightening the front to just snug. Then tighten the rear down. Then torque the front to spec. Sometimes if you tighten the front first, it pulls the rear up and then the action gets bent. The screw in the lug can pull the action up and cause an issue.

Seen it happen and it changes a gun from sub moa to +2 moa in and instant.

Sometimes, the gun just won’t shoot. Have to work through Legacy then.

 

[Kyguy]

Is it 40 rounds of the same load? 2 loads? 10 loads? Try different ammo. Put a different scope on it and see what happens.

 

[jksiller]

Try tightening the front to just snug. Then tighten the rear down. Then torque the front to spec. Sometimes if you tighten the front first, it pulls the rear up and then the action gets bent. The screw in the lug can pull the action up and cause an issue.

Seen it happen and it changes a gun from sub moa to +2 moa in and instant.

Sometimes, the gun just won’t shoot. Have to work through Legacy then.

Thanks, will give this a try.

 

[hereinaz]

If you tighten the front only, as an experiment you can watch it lift off the rear.

Just make sure it seats against the lug and my method has “fixed” Howa more than once.

 

[Ranger 692]

That is the experience I had with my mini action, unbedded and bedded in a Stockys, all sorts of different ammo. 2 MOA. I wanted to like it but just wasn’t working.

 

[jksiller]

Is it 40 rounds of the same load? 2 loads? 10 loads? Try different ammo. Put a different scope on it and see what happens.

6 different kinds of ammo. Fed premium and Hornady Eldx, fed premium trophy copper, hsm bergers, etc. historically what works well in .308 with 1:8 twist.
It’s the same scope- I have not removed and or shot this scope on any other rifle. Yes it’s a variable but I’m thinking based on the research that I’ve done that this is the least likely culprit.

 

[Kyguy]

40 rounds over 6 different loads isn't enough data. It's only eight 5 shot groups. How many shots in your groups and what size are the groups? One load that might shoot a 1.5" group and then turn around and shoot a 3/4" group is a 1.1" average. You really need multiple 5 shot (or 3 shot) groups of one load to decide if it's a keeper or not.

Here's an example.... AAC 140GR BLADE 6.5 Creed...$20 a box. First three shots were just under an inch in my custom (an actual custom rifle). Bleh. Two more groups were the same. Ok. Then I dumped the other 11 rounds into a group that was just under an inch.

3 shot groups of 140gr ELD-M were cloverleaf's..... But a 10 shot group was just under an inch.

The AAC is much cheaper than the ELD-M and that particular lot shoots statistically the same, based on a 10 shot group. Most people would have automatically discarded the AAC ammo based on the three shot groups.

 

[jksiller]

40 rounds over 6 different loads isn't enough data. It's only eight 5 shot groups. How many shots in your groups and what size are the groups? One load that might shoot a 1.5" group and then turn around and shoot a 3/4" group is a 1.1" average. You really need multiple 5 shot (or 3 shot) groups of one load to decide if it's a keeper or not.

Here's an example.... AAC 140GR BLADE 6.5 Creed...$20 a box. First three shots were just under an inch in my custom (an actual custom rifle). Bleh. Two more groups were the same. Ok. Then I dumped the other 11 rounds into a group that was just under an inch.

3 shot groups of 140gr ELD-M were cloverleaf's..... But a 10 shot group was just under an inch.

The AAC is much cheaper than the ELD-M and that particular lot shoots statistically the same, based on a 10 shot group. Most people would have automatically discarded the AAC ammo based on the three shot groups.

Ur absolutely correct. And I apologize my math was terrible incorrect. I’m on my sixth box of ammo, so I’m about 100 rounds in. I’m uploading the picture of only three of the targets from this week, and I put them side by side just to show the inconsistency. I normally shoot 3 round groups for picking ammo- but to conserve ammo I was only shooting two since I recognize that something isn’t right. i didn’t want to add the Photos initially bc it doesn’t tell the full story and inconsistencies of each type of ammo, but here you go!

 

[sndmn11]

Ur absolutely correct. And I apologize my math was terrible incorrect. I’m on my sixth box of ammo, so I’m about 100 rounds in. I’m uploading the picture of only three of the targets from this week, and I put them side by side just to show the inconsistency. I normally shoot 3 round groups for picking ammo- but to conserve ammo I was only shooting two since I recognize that something isn’t right. i didn’t want to add the Photos initially bc it doesn’t tell the full story and inconsistencies of each type of ammo, but here you go!

That looks like a mount or optic problem. Torque value and sequence in that chassis should be irrelevant. Pull the scope off, check the rail, check the scope, etc.

Have you ever used loctite in the front action screw hole?

 

[jksiller]

That looks like a mount or optic problem. Torque value and sequence in that chassis should be irrelevant. Pull the scope off, check the rail, check the scope, etc.

Have you ever used loctite in the front action screw hole?

I just pulled the scope off and retorqued everything and I used loctite on optics only not on action screws

 

[Kyguy]

You're sure the front mount screws aren't bottoming out on the barrel shank, leaving the base loose?

Have you checked the crown of the barrel?

How's your bench set up?

 

[Megalodon]

Let someone else shot it…

 

[jksiller]

You're sure the front mount screws aren't bottoming out on the barrel shank, leaving the base loose?

Have you checked the crown of the barrel?

How's your bench set up?

1) not sure how to confirm this
2) yes, brand new bbl, crown is in great shape
3) front stock on bag, rear stock on bag. Every shot same setup. Have not had issue with any other gun with this setup.

 

[Kyguy]

1) not sure how to confirm this
2) yes, brand new bbl, crown is in great shape
3) front stock on bag, rear stock on bag. Every shot same setup. Have not had issue with any other gun with this setup.

Loosen all of the base screws. Tighten one front screw and see if the base moves. If not, loosen that screw and tighten the other one and see if the base moves. If not, then they're not bottoming out on the barrel shank.

New barrel doesn't mean that the crown is good. Take a q-tip or a cotton ball and rub around the crown and see if any fibers pull off. If so, you've got a burr on the crown.

 

[Wacko]

JMHO...you are correct something is wrong. 100 rounds in you should be seeing better groups.

Since you are trying all the recommended things I will give you one more I haven't seen mentioned. @hereinaz has alluded to it, but didn't finish.

Take your action and just snug the rear screw. Hold it at an angle but barrel up towards vertical. Then put your finger between the barrel and top of the stock on the forend. Now snug up the front action screw. If there is motion that you can see and feel you have action torque. If there is no movement, just snug the front screw and then repeat with your finger on the barrel by snugging up the back screw. If you have motion you have torque. If you do you can try to locate the source and "remove it". Or you can bed the chassis.

I have heard some have had to relieve the bolt stop area as it was making contact. Check the bolt stop and trigger areas for contact.

Last thing to check is that the face of the recoil lug is actually making contact in the chassis. You can put silver sharpie or something on it. Then install the stock and move the action side to side. The marker should wear off or transfer. If you only have slight contact spot bed the lug. Of course if you have torque then bedding it takes care of it too.

Good luck. Troubleshooting is always a tough one. Eliminate what you can, try new scope, etc.....If it still won't shoot talk to Legacy Sports, re-barrel it, or trip it.

 

[hereinaz]

JMHO...you are correct something is wrong. 100 rounds in you should be seeing better groups.

Since you are trying all the recommended things I will give you one more I haven't seen mentioned. @hereinaz has alluded to it, but didn't finish.

Take your action and just snug the rear screw. Hold it at an angle but barrel up towards vertical. Then put your finger between the barrel and top of the stock on the forend. Now snug up the front action screw. If there is motion that you can see and feel you have action torque. If there is no movement, just snug the front screw and then repeat with your finger on the barrel by snugging up the back screw. If you have motion you have torque. If you do you can try to locate the source and "remove it". Or you can bed the chassis.

I have heard some have had to relieve the bolt stop area as it was making contact. Check the bolt stop and trigger areas for contact.

Last thing to check is that the face of the recoil lug is actually making contact in the chassis. You can put silver sharpie or something on it. Then install the stock and move the action side to side. The marker should wear off or transfer. If you only have slight contact spot bed the lug. Of course if you have torque then bedding it takes care of it too.

Good luck. Troubleshooting is always a tough one. Eliminate what you can, try new scope, etc.....If it still won't shoot talk to Legacy Sports, re-barrel it, or trip it.

I second this information. It is second level type stuff.

For many of us, the cost of the rifle itself is really just for the action, and inexpensive one at that. If the barrel doesn't shoot, then no biggie.

Sucks for the guy buying it for the whole thing. Its hard to recommend replacing the barrel, but if that is in your wheelhouse, go for it. I mean you paid for a rifle, and didn't get one. New barrels cure 99% of the Howa Mini problems I have seen. I am down on Howa for the number of lemons that I feel like I am seeing-for the dude who just wants a rifle and is on a budget. They sell thousands, so lemons and duds are expected. The good thing is, for the price of a barrel, and we can sell you a one off with discount off Preferred's list price (and install it), I will guarantee it is a 1.5 MOA 10 round gun. You can send just the barreled action to save on shipping. I have stocks here. And, if you are already so disappointed you can't stand the thought of it possibly being a dud from Preferred, I will probably make it a point to go shoot 40 or 50 rounds to confirm its a shooter for you before sending it. It sucks spending ammo and time on a lemon, I totally get that.

To try to work with Legacy, just document the heck out of it with pictures, video, and ammo. Send it back and make them deal with it. I know it is hard, but if you document it up right, it can only help.