How will 75% Tag Allocation Affect Preference Points in CO?

[CoMulies]

If they’ll increase tag $ by raising prices, that gap is easy to fill. There’s nothing in Western big game hunting trends that shows that tag prices can’t absorb significant increases. The tag is rarely the most expensive part of a western game hunt for NRs. Guys roll in 80k trucks, 80k campers, 3k guns, 10k optics.. not saying it’s fair or whatever, but tag prices will go up to make up the shortfall.

As a resident, I’d gladly pay 2-3x prices on tags to go to a 90 R / 10 NR allocation with no NR OTC

 

[ShakeDown]

Everyone’s so touchy lately! I stated a number that I thought was entertaining, without stating any opinion.

Not touchy, it‘s just an exercise in futility to compare res/non res. I was simply trying to express my desire for higher quality hunting in my home state. Not compare it to what non residents pay, as I pay those fees every year when I can in NM, AZ or WY.

 

[Phaseolus]

If they propose to raise the price of a resident elk tag by $5, the old timers will spend $30 on gas to show up to a commission meeting to protest it.

Doubtful, the Commission meetings I attend in Western Colorado typically have 5-7 non CPW people show up.

 

[Archer86]

3x the number of tags at 1/10th the cost sure seems like taking care of residents first to me.

Have you looked at Colorado otc tag sales the last time I looked they sell as many tags to nr then residents for strictly otc tags. Changes need to happen 5 years ago

 

[35WhelenAI]

There was a term mentioned. "Quality Hunt". What is a quality hunt? Fewer hunters/more good bulls that takes a number of years to draw but can be drawn, filling a cow tag more often that must be drawn, etc.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Have you looked at Colorado otc tag sales the last time I looked they sell as many tags to nr then residents for strictly otc tags. Changes need to happen 5 years ago

Only OTC tag in the game, fills the woods with hunters. Agree, overdue for changes.

 

[mavinwa2]

As a resident, I’d gladly pay 2-3x prices on tags to go to a 90 R / 10 NR allocation with no NR OTC

for total dollars, more like residents would need to pay 5x the current price for an elk tag at 90/10 and no NR OTC... And then still a considerable shortfall from historical and budgetary numbers for elk license sales.
One thing politicians know, is how to think like a business, busn-person, and not always in the realm of the greater good for the common public. More hunters should...that's my point.

THE FUTURE:
Once you are done punishing the NR hunters, splitting the ranks of hunter support & solidarity, with an extreme ratio such as the quote above, the CO resident hunters can complain about higher tag prices for less elk, once the wolves become established. And lose to the greater population, budgets and legalese of anti-hunt groups and non-hunters, granola types. You can bet they will legislate higher resident hunt fees!

After all, Fed $$ and more CPW $$$$ will fund the wolf establishment, support groups and deplete the CPW budget that would be needed for the hunter side of game management. And soon, add the GRIZZ to the equation.

 

[mavinwa2]

Very good points. You also need to keep in mind, the governor's office is packed with folks that don't think logically and are appointing commissioners that think similarly. Imagine CA politicians managing the CO state budget.

NR hunting is not going away, but opportunity will be more scarce in the future. The writing is on the wall for OTC, period. Many of us residents are fighting to ensure our children can still have the OTC opportunities that I currently have.

Another point to consider. Its not too difficult to balance a budget if you know how many tags are available. If NR tag numbers decrease, then increase the price of a NR tag to make up the difference. Supply and demand just like we're seeing in WY right now.

That's what Happened to Washington State hunting. Governor appointees on the wildlife commission and wolf counsel. CA politicians proliferate the Washington Dept of Fish & Game, and various anti-hunt groups, organizations are growing leaps & bounds with their presence and law proposals, voter initiatives.
Hound hunting, baiting bears, cougars eliminated. The annual spring bear hunts eliminated, statewide. Unless you are outfitting with a tribal nation.

Wolves just naturally moved down and over from BC-Canada, Idaho...and probably up from eastern Oregon too.
And Fed plans approved to introduce the GRIZZ to north central cascades.

I can't wait for a Seattle granola type to hike the North Cascades NP, Paysayten, or Sawtooth Wilderness areas and get eaten....karma.

 

[Shō[t]gun]

For those suggesting to drastically cut NR tags even more and/or completely eliminate OTC tags for NR only, how would residents make up that money deficit? Hunting related activities make up 66% of the revenue for CPW wildlife branch, and based on the prices of R vs NR, it’s safe to say that NR’s fund at least 50% of the whole process. Increasing resident tags by 2-3x won’t come anywhere close to making up that amount of annual income. And resident state taxes only fund less than 1% for small local projects.
Not stirring the pot just to start an argument, I’m really curious if residents are willing to take on the monetary burden of losing a large percentage of NR hunters.
https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/About/Reports/Sources_and_Uses_of_Funds_Fact_Sheet.pdf

 

[Jethro]

For those suggesting to drastically cut NR tags even more and/or completely eliminate OTC tags for NR only, how would residents make up that money deficit? Hunting related activities make up 66% of the revenue for CPW wildlife branch, and based on the prices of R vs NR, it’s safe to say that NR’s fund at least 50% of the whole process. Increasing resident tags by 2-3x won’t come anywhere close to making up that amount of annual income. And resident state taxes only fund less than 1% for small local projects.
Not stirring the pot just to start an argument, I’m really curious if residents are willing to take on the monetary burden of losing a large percentage of NR hunters.

Raise the price of NR tags, raise the price of NR qualifying license, raise price for habitat stamp, start charging for preference points. Little increase in Res costs. It is not very difficult to make up the revenue. States do it all the time.

Residents are never going to absorb huge differences in revenue. Despite the fact that hard core guys, like you see on hunting forums, say they'd pay way more to get rid of NR, there are millions of non-hardcore weekenders that would flip out over large price increase. No legislator is going to tick off most of their constituents like that. Its rare, or ever, that resident license costs take a big jump in any state.

 

[ColoradoV]

75/25% should be a minimum hard cap. Returned tags, leftovers, 2nd - 4th choice, and lo tags should be given out at a very reasonable 75/25% split.

For the guys whining or wait worried about the pitfalls of cpw running out of money ….

Well the cpw added more money to the coffers this year than a lot of states total wildlife budget…. Also residents are paying 100% of this extra 40 -50 million a year. Yea let that sink in. The money argument is no longer valad folks that make it are just looking well silly.

First-year sales of 'Keep Colorado Wild' pass generate big revenue

28% of drivers opted in to the annual parks pass in 2023, according to Colorado Parks and Wildlife.

www.9news.com

Projections I have seen say it will be 50 million soon.

Real question for nr = is how are you non residents going to step up w an additional 40-50 million yearly like residents just did to support cpw??

Or maybe now that residents just “picked up the bill” for non resident shortfalls maybe it is time for 90-10????

 

[ShakeDown]

There was a term mentioned. "Quality Hunt". What is a quality hunt? Fewer hunters/more good bulls that takes a number of years to draw but can be drawn, filling a cow tag more often that must be drawn, etc.

Different units should have different “quality“ objectives.

Subjectively, to me, ”quality” is higher age class bulls that exhibit typical (non-pressured) elk rutting behavior in September.

 

[Shō[t]gun]

75/25% should be a minimum hard cap. Returned tags, leftovers, 2nd - 4th choice, and lo tags should be given out at a very reasonable 75/25% split.

For the guys whining or wait worried about the pitfalls of cpw running out of money ….

Well the cpw added more money to the coffers this year than a lot of states total wildlife budget…. Also residents are paying 100% of this extra 40 -50 million a year. Yea let that sink in. The money argument is no longer valad folks that make it are just looking well silly.

First-year sales of 'Keep Colorado Wild' pass generate big revenue

28% of drivers opted in to the annual parks pass in 2023, according to Colorado Parks and Wildlife.

www.9news.com

Projections I have seen say it will be 50 million soon.

Real question for nr = is how are you non residents going to step up w an additional 40-50 million yearly like residents just did to support cpw??

Or maybe now that residents just “picked up the bill” for non resident shortfalls maybe it is time for 90-10????

That’s a fantastic project for the state, but it doesn’t directly support hunting activities. The CO dems would never allow or support that. Parks and wildlife are a merged entity with separate budgets. The majority of that 40mil goes to state park maintenance, and the scraps left over might go to general wildlife conservation projects which is more likely to be used to buy more wolves than help deer and elk.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Not touchy, it‘s just an exercise in futility to compare res/non res. I was simply trying to express my desire for higher quality hunting in my home state. Not compare it to what non residents pay, as I pay those fees every year when I can in NM, AZ or WY.

You want to hunt your home state?! Every year?! How Dare you!!!!

 

[ColoradoV]

That’s a fantastic project for the state, but it doesn’t directly support hunting activities. The CO dems would never allow or support that. Parks and wildlife are a merged entity with separate budgets. The majority of that 40mil goes to state park maintenance, and the scraps left over might go to general wildlife conservation projects which is more likely to be used to buy more wolves than help deer and elk.

Oh boy…

Tell me you don’t know about cpw budgets with out telling me you don’t know about cpw budgets …..

So again real question for ya man = residents just added 40-50 million in a year how are you nr going to do the same??

Don’t worry I’ll wait for the answer.

 

[MallardSX2]

As a resident, I’d gladly pay 2-3x prices on tags to go to a 90 R / 10 NR allocation with no NR OTC

You’re going to have to do better than that.

 

[dirtytough]

Dont forget that a percentage of Landowner tags are pulled from the public license quota - typically the Resident quota, not the NonRes quota

So in actuality, the 75% encompasses LO tags too, Non Res get a full 25%.

Dude stop with the misinformation already. We have went over this in the past.

This is incredibly frustrating….

I agree. It's super frustrating when residents keep pushing misinformation

 

[sndmn11]

for total dollars, more like residents would need to pay 5x the current price for an elk tag at 90/10 and no NR OTC... And then still a considerable shortfall from

For those suggesting to drastically cut NR tags even more and/or completely eliminate OTC tags for NR only, how would residents make up that money deficit?

CPW takes in drastically more money than it needs and even wants to spend. The money isn't an issue see @ColoradoV above.

I think that there will not be any cut in overall NR license purchases in the next few years. Those who don't draw will still hunt OTC and their secondary choices. I'd bet a significant portion of people will never realize allocation was modified. (I'll also bet a bunch hunt NW units in OTC rifle too).

I think there's a significant amount of first choice hunt codes that will stick with historic proportions due to R not applying 1st choice.

I think a lot of R hunt codes will stabilize rather than creep for a few years. I don't think that NR creep will accelerate in any significant way; it'll keep growing at a similar rate.

With changes in other states, I wouldn't be surprised if NR license purchases increase.

 

[Shō[t]gun]

Oh boy…

Tell me you don’t know about cpw budgets with out telling me you don’t know about cpw budgets …..

So again real question for ya man = residents just added 40-50 million in a year how are you nr going to do the same??

Don’t worry I’ll wait for the answer.

Did you not see the attachments directly from CPW’s website? That’s where I’m getting my info, but if you know more then please share.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Did you not see the attachments directly from CPW’s website? That’s where I’m getting my info, but if you know more then please share.

You mean like when parks joined wildlife in 2011 and was something like 27 million in the hole, but was instantly solvent again because of the division of wildlife?