How To Account For Environmentals at Time of AB Profile Creation Sig BDX

[SloppyJ]

Maybe i don't understand the process of how it works or maybe it's unique to my application with the Kilo 10k Gen 2s BDX app. I've been wondering this since I got them but haven't figured it out.

I see no input for environmentals when you are creating a custom profile. I don't think it pulls it from the onboard data because you can create a profile without being connected to the binos.

Basically, how does the solution know what elevation your input data is based on? If i live at 5k feet, make a profile, setup muzzle velocity, how does it know it's different than the same profile i make at 500 feet?

Probably a stupid question but I can't make it make sense to me. I see additional inputs for MV vs Temp but nothing else.

I assume this is different on a Kestrel because you have to make the profile on your kestrel with it booted up.

 

[Yukon Cornelius]

Have you completed a drop test on the system?

 

[Runwilderness]

I’m no expert and I don’t own kilo 10ks, but as I understand it environmentals have basically zero impact on a 100yd zero.

 

[SloppyJ]

I’m no expert and I don’t own kilo 10ks, but as I understand it environmentals have basically zero impact on a 100yd zero.

Muzzle velocity and it's extraploation out to distance is the concern.

 

[SloppyJ]

Have you completed a drop test on the system?

Not sure what this has to do with the question.

 

[wind gypsy]

The binos have onboard sensors that measure density altitude. You dont input it.

Unless you're trying to get a range card in the app without being sync'd to the binos, i dont understand what you're looking to do? I guess if a guy were doing something dumb like say starting with a 300 yard zero it might matter?

Same same on my kestrel. That's the point of a 100 yard zero, it shouldn't matter.

 

[Tahoe1305]

Not sure what this has to do with the question.

I think he’s asking if you’ve confirmed your dope at distance. That would validate your environments and other app assumptions (MV, BC, etc).

IMO the environmental for your initial data is irrelevant. All that matters for initial input is MV and BC (some other small things effect too twist, etc but most calculators don’t ask for that).

100% matters when you get your dope though. To get an accurate drop, it will need those values for DA (based on temp, humidity, altimeter, altitude). My app those can be pulled from a weather station, manually input for from a kestrel.

 

[Tahoe1305]

Muzzle velocity and it's extraploation out to distance is the concern.

This is figured by truing your dope….back to what the other guy asked about your “drop test”.

Start with what your chrono gives you and the BC on the box and/or through other research (litz has some “better” BC data). Keep in mind BCs actually change as the bullet slows (fairly significantly). Matters not inside say 800 but will matter beyond that.

Shoot at 300,400, 600,800. Notice where the impacts fall vertically. If they are all on the same level (water line) as the aim point your BC and MV assumptions are solid with your ballistic solver. If they end up high increase the MV up in your app. If they end up low decrease the MV. You can adjust BC (different schools of thought of which to adjust) but just pick one and stick with it. I’ve had better luck with MV at “normal” ranges.

 

[wind gypsy]

Basically, how does the solution know what elevation your input data is based on? If i live at 5k feet, make a profile, setup muzzle velocity, how does it know it's different than the same profile i make at 500 feet?

It's because it IS the same profile at 500' and 5k' but your binos will read a different density altitude when they are ranging in those different conditions and thus spit out different solutionss. Same as a kestrel.

Notice when you range, the display shows a density altitude.

 

[Runwilderness]

Muzzle velocity and it's extraploation out to distance is the concern.

As others have pointed out MV is MV. The air pressure inside the barrel isn’t going to shift MV by 100fps.

Drop at 300yds vs 500yds vs 800yds will vary with DA of course.

 

[SloppyJ]

The binos have onboard sensors that measure density altitude. You dont input it.

Unless you're trying to get a range card in the app without being sync'd to the binos, i dont understand what you're looking to do? I guess if a guy were doing something dumb like say starting with a 300 yard zero it might matter?

Same same on my kestrel. That's the point of a 100 yard zero, it shouldn't matter.

That's exactly what I was trying to do. At matches I like to have my range card pulled up to get holds at specific distances and I don't want to burn the battery on the binos leaving them on. It's at least what got me thinking about this.

Im concerned how my drop will vary at different altitudes based on the AB solutions. Have a rifle elk hunt in 25 around 9500ft. I live around 1200. I want to have confidence that my solutions will be legit. I know I can do the calcs manually in a calculator once I true my ballistics at my altitude to produce a card but id really like to lean on the RF binos to spit a solution out that I feel confident in at the moment of truth.

Somethings going over my head on the 100yd zero thing so I'll dig into that tomorrow and hopefully it will click.

To me it just seems like the easiest solution would be able to input the variables when you're setting up the profile and it could adjust from there. Record a few different avg. MV at different temps and boom. Off to the races.

 

[SloppyJ]

As others have pointed out MV is MV. The air pressure inside the barrel isn’t going to shift MV by 100fps.

Drop at 300yds vs 500yds vs 800yds will vary with DA of course.

Yeah I didn't explain at all. I'm concerned about getting a solid trued solution at one elevation with no way to tell the calculator what elevation it's trued to so it can adjust accordingly.

 

[Tahoe1305]

If it helps here’s the difference in zero from 100yds at sea level to 9000ft. This is a 6.5C @2850.

I think the best way to build confidence in the system is keep shooting matches but maybe some at different altitudes. Also comparing the onboard data to a kestrel will help.

I’ve found my on board sigs are always about 500’ off DA. It bothers me, but hasn’t resulted in a miss at distances I shoot yet (normally an inch or two difference max). Having an app like ballistic AE or similar is helpful to validate the binos too. Again my sigs vs the app is normally a tad off (inch or two) and likely doesn’t effect a hit or miss.

 

[SloppyJ]

If it helps here’s the difference in zero from 100yds at sea level to 9000ft. This is a 6.5C @2850.

I think the best way to build confidence in the system is keep shooting matches but maybe some at different altitudes. Also comparing the onboard data to a kestrel will help.

I’ve found my on board sigs are always about 500’ off DA. It bothers me, but hasn’t resulted in a miss at distances I shoot yet (normally an inch or two difference max). Having an app like ballistic AE or similar is helpful to validate the binos too. Again my sigs vs the app is normally a tad off (inch or two) and likely doesn’t effect a hit or miss.

Thanks Tahoe, and yes, I've learned how to adjust MV and BC to tune the drop out to 1200yds. Ive always followed MV to 600 and then jump to 1k and adjust BC then run it short to far again to verify. That's worked well for me.

Ive noticed my DA seems to be quite a bit off too. Guess I'm being a bit overly OCD about it. Figured there would be a better way to do it.

 

[wind gypsy]

That's exactly what I was trying to do. At matches I like to have my range card pulled up to get holds at specific distances and I don't want to burn the battery on the binos leaving them on. It's at least what got me thinking about this.

Im concerned how my drop will vary at different altitudes based on the AB solutions. Have a rifle elk hunt in 25 around 9500ft. I live around 1200. I want to have confidence that my solutions will be legit. I know I can do the calcs manually in a calculator once I true my ballistics at my altitude to produce a card but id really like to lean on the RF binos to spit a solution out that I feel confident in at the moment of truth.

In the BDX app, Change the pressure until it spits out the DA you want a range card for as shown below if you want a range card for a given DA without using your binos. I'd bet the new AB quantum app would get you some granular details if you desire as well you could use that.

Somethings going over my head on the 100yd zero thing so I'll dig into that tomorrow and hopefully it will click.

To me it just seems like the easiest solution would be able to input the variables when you're setting up the profile and it could adjust from there. Record a few different avg. MV at different temps and boom. Off to the races.

100 yard zero at sea level and at 9000' is the same. There is no density altitude variable to put in! The profile is the same. The "profile" is a complex setup that takes atmospherics, wind, incline, direction of fire, etc into account to spit out a solution.

 

[Yukon Cornelius]

Not sure what this has to do with the question.

It doesn’t. Attempt at humor