How Old Was He Really?! Big Buck Hunters Talk Age vs. Score

[Jaden Bales]

Mule deer nerds - this one's for you! These are screenshots from my spreadsheet we reference in the podcast.

https://www.rokslide.com/tooth-aging-mule-deer-vs-score/

Thanks so much to @robby denning @Travis Hobbs , Corey Dixon @VANDAL , and Braxton Hamilton @AlpineMuleys for all hopping on to talk about their tooth aged bucks and break down what we feel like that might mean from the management and mindset of mule deer hunting in the West.

Enjoy the show and let us know what you think down below!

 

[mt terry d]

A 210+ 3 year old?



Interesting stuff.

 

[BRTreedogs]

Little off subject.
Just got my first results back. And the bull I took last year was much younger then speculation.

 

[RockAndSage]

Thanks for posting this, I'll definitely be looking forward to giving this episode a listen.

 

[robby denning]

Little off subject.
Just got my first results back. And the bull I took last year was much younger then speculation.

not off subject!

how old? and what was your guess?

 

[Jaden Bales]

A 210+ 3 year old?



Interesting stuff.

Oh yeah! We talked about it! @Travis Hobbs had both the oldest and youngest bucks in the 210+ category!

 

[BRTreedogs]

not off subject!

how old? and what was your guess?

He was 5
Which I guess looking back I wasn’t necessarily thinking he was old until I handed the collar to the Warden, he was the one that kinda got excited and said he didn’t they they had used those collars in a long time & said he mite be old as dirt.

Bio was all hot to trot getting info from me but he doesn’t seem to keen to reply on sending me any data back.

 

[ianpadron]

Is it more impressive to kill an 8.5+ year old 150" buck that has seen it all or a 180+" 3.5 year old?

Tooth data definitely taught me how little I actually knew about aging deer. Antlers, body size, face shape, etc...all a crap shoot

 

[Jaden Bales]

Is it more impressive to kill an 8.5+ year old 150" buck that has seen it all or a 180+" 3.5 year old?

Tooth data definitely taught me how little I actually knew about aging deer. Antlers, body size, face shape, etc...all a crap shoot

Isn't that the question! Corey's story about the 190s 3.5 year old he killed is a great example of a buck doing "old buck stuff" early. I wonder if we've not over-played what old bucks do and if its just what bucks who have a target on their back do.

 

[graniteghost]

For those who contributed to the spreadsheet, is there a correlation between state/range for these bucks? I live in MT and often hear the statement that our bucks just don’t grow as much bone as other states when they reach maturity.

 

[Jaden Bales]

For those who contributed to the spreadsheet, is there a correlation between state/range for these bucks? I live in MT and often hear the statement that our bucks just don’t grow as much bone as other states when they reach maturity.

Fair question! I know a lot of these came from Wyoming and Idaho. Some from Colorado. Some from Utah.

Just shooting from the hip, I think there’s something to that. I have scouted a ton and killed a few bucks in that spreadsheet in low-country areas that just don’t tend to throw big antlers (most of the smallest bucks on the list are from me).

 

[graniteghost]

After listening to the podcast, it’s really made me wish I knew about tooth aging sooner. I shot this buck about 3 years ago and know I’ll be haunted about not aging him. Heavy bases, split ear, blind in one eye, and was basically skin and bones at the end. I’ll throw up a pic of his molars but know that obviously doesn’t show much.

 

[S.Clancy]

For those who contributed to the spreadsheet, is there a correlation between state/range for these bucks? I live in MT and often hear the statement that our bucks just don’t grow as much bone as other states when they reach maturity.

In general, I believe that to be true. On average for age, our bucks in MT are smaller antler wise
just based on the variability of nutrition. I think the entries into B&C bares this out as well.

Also, @Jaden Bales run that chart with the median age!

 

[idelkslayer]

@Jaden Bales
Have you tried splitting the data between General Seasons and Controlled hunts. I know you guys talked about what this has taught you about management and the conclusion was that all that the deer need is escapement in terms of either cover, seasons, road density, etc. I started a thread last year to try and see a correlation between age, score, and type of season. Still gathering data but you have a jump on me with the amount of info in your table. I have my own theory that there isn't much of a difference in age structure but I'm open to where ever the data goes.

 

[Jaden Bales]

@Jaden Bales
Have you tried splitting the data between General Seasons and Controlled hunts. I know you guys talked about what this has taught you about management and the conclusion was that all that the deer need is escapement in terms of either cover, seasons, road density, etc. I started a thread last year to try and see a correlation between age, score, and type of season. Still gathering data but you have a jump on me with the amount of info in your table. I have my own theory that there isn't much of a difference in age structure but I'm open to where ever the data goes.

I probably could/should put that in there. I do it with the Wyoming data. I know that about 80% of these samples were basically OTC/General hunts, or 1-3 point units in Colorado. For example, only 2 of my 11 were from controlled/hard-to-draw areas.

@robby denning how many bucks in yours were from controlled hunts?

 

[Jaden Bales]

In general, I believe that to be true. On average for age, our bucks in MT are smaller antler wise
just based on the variability of nutrition. I think the entries into B&C bares this out as well.

Also, @Jaden Bales run that chart with the median age!

The median age of all the bucks was 5. I did a median of 140-210+ as well as 160-210+ to see if it changed the median by having those tailing 4-year-olds and it did not.

 

[Jaden Bales]

After listening to the podcast, it’s really made me wish I knew about tooth aging sooner. I shot this buck about 3 years ago and know I’ll be haunted about not aging him. Heavy bases, split ear, blind in one eye, and was basically skin and bones at the end. I’ll throw up a pic of his molars but know that obviously doesn’t show much. View attachment 1030691View attachment 1030692

He's definitely got signs of an old sucker!

One variable I don't know much about is how the terrain/feed changes things in their body condition and teeth. Like if it was a crappy vegetation year (or a few crappy years) I would imagine you'd get more molar wear and poorer body condition earlier. And judging by the background, doesn't look like he was living high on the hog out there!

@robby denning told a story of an old buck he killed in some great growing years that seemed to be in his prime at 9.5! Crazy stuff!

 

[robby denning]

For those who contributed to the spreadsheet, is there a correlation between state/range for these bucks? I live in MT and often hear the statement that our bucks just don’t grow as much bone as other states when they reach maturity.

I only had 1 MT deer in there, and it was 6yrs.

 

[robby denning]

I probably could/should put that in there. I do it with the Wyoming data. I know that about 80% of these samples were basically OTC/General hunts, or 1-3 point units in Colorado. For example, only 2 of my 11 were from controlled/hard-to-draw areas.

@robby denning how many bucks in yours were from controlled hunts?

Because some came from other states that limit NR but are open to residents, it's it's easier to say that of the five that were 200+, 4 came from 2pt or less/OTC units. One came from a 9 point unit (but I still hunted in secure country--not the heavily roaded stuff that is everywhere in the unit).

of the other 22 or so, it's about the same-- leaning toward OTC/less than 2pt or 25-50% odds.

three or so came from private property in OTC units, so not sure how to count them.

so I'll leave this at what I indicated in the episode: the good draws are 5-10% odds now (much less for the premo's) so just growing bucks I can't hunt isn't my preference. I just need to hunt where there is some security/balanced with getting a tag

 

[NICKJ]

Great podcast, learned alot.

I bet the 160-169 age is skewed towards the 5.5+ because if they were younger they probably would have gotten a pass. They prob got shot because of heavy bases, mass, etc of an older deer.