How much momentum needed for elk?

[Farmingdale's Finest]

Like the title says how much momentum for elk?

My set up generates .534 slugs of momentum from my arrow. Is this enough to use a head like a Muzzy or NAP Killzone or should I be using a COC head? And why?

 

[Brendan]

Had to go do the math, because I have zero idea what .534 slugs equates to... 440 Grain arrow at approximately 270fps is one example. Would be better if you can post your arrow speed / weight because most people are going to be in the same position I was.

I would not use killzones under any scenario for Elk. I don't think they're a very durable head, and have had damage to them on whitetails and targets where I don't think I should. Mechanicals in general, I haven't found one I feel like I really, really like for Elk. Had some failures testing grim reapers on whitetail, so won't use those anymore. Maybe rage hypodermic +p, maybe spitfire, and I shoot a 505 grain arrow at 270+. Spitfire has been a bombproof head for me on whitetail. Generating more momentum, I'l probably carry Iron Will the next time I hunt Elk and save mechanicals for whitetail.

I would use a fixed blade in your case. Any of the Muzzy, Slick Trick should work. I've had great arrow flight from Wac 'Em personally. Iron Will look bomb proof and lots of great reviews here, haven't tested mine yet though (May actually do that today)

 

[225nontypical]

With proper shot placement yes it would work. Lots of variables though play into this. FOC, arrowbuild, arrow weight, arrow speed (this isn’t that important though)

 

[sneaky]

Yes, posting your momentum numbers without any background info isn't doing anyone else much service. Bow setup, arrow setup, current head you shoot etc etc is all helpful info. Like has already been said, I don't shoot mechanical heads on elk.

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[Farmingdale's Finest]

Yes, posting your momentum numbers without any background info isn't doing anyone else much service. Bow setup, arrow setup, current head you shoot etc etc is all helpful info. Like has already been said, I don't shoot mechanical heads on elk.

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The reason I didn't post the set up was when people see that I am only shooting 60 pounds they say that I am shooting too light a set up for anything but COC heads but don't take into account that I am shooting a 30" draw which adds 20 fps over the avg draw length of 28" shooting the same arrow weight. Which give me the same speed as someone with a 70lb draw but the shorter draw length.

My set up is a 60lb Elite Pure at 30" draw length. I am shooting a 420 grain arrow at 284FPS for a KE of just short of 75ft lbs of energy.

 

[sneaky]

The last elk I killed was with a PSE Decree HD, 61# at 31" draw. 426gr arrow with a 3 blade WacEm Triton. It ran about 40 yards after the shot. Angled through but punched two holes. It's not a momentum or KE thing as much as it is an elk anatomy thing. Thick ribs, huge shoulder bones, thick hide, not a recipe I would personally ever throw a mechanical into the mix of. Lots of guys are successful with mechs, but I've personally helped trail a lot of elk shot with Rages that we never found. My boss actually shot a stag in NZ that one blade fell off of and the other didn't open. He had to finish it with a rifle. The holes in the hide told the story.

The reason I didn't post the set up was when people see that I am only shooting 60 pounds they say that I am shooting too light a set up for anything but COC heads but don't take into account that I am shooting a 30" draw which adds 20 fps over the avg draw length of 28" shooting the same arrow weight. Which give me the same speed as someone with a 70lb draw but the shorter draw length.

My set up is a 60lb Elite Pure at 30" draw length. I am shooting a 420 grain arrow at 284FPS for a KE of just short of 75ft lbs of energy.

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[wapitibob]

I've killed bulls with a 60# conquest 4, 420gr arrow and spitfire 125's. Speed might have been 260. Learn where to put it, get close enough to put it there, and you'll watch them fall.

 

[Neverenoughhntn]

To each their own.... for me, personally, I want to eliminate all chances of equipment failure. Mechanicals can, and do, fail way too often for my liking. Just because others have and do take elk every year with a mech, you’re accepting a much higher probability for a bh failure (whether you break a blade, or fail to get adequate penetration- especially with that light of an arrow, most mechanicals kill your momentum)

 

[Backpack Hunter]

I've never had problems shooting a setup a bit less than yours using 1-3/8 and 1-1/2 Grim Reapers, and a few different fixed blade heads.

 

[nazca]

I killed my elk last year with my Hoyt Carbon Defiant Turbo, 63#, 30" draw, 520 gr arrow, and a grim reaper 2", 3 blade mechanical. I think my speed is around 275-278fps. It absolutely devastated my elk. The arrow nicked the leg bone, went through the heart and zipped out the other side.

I've also killed a bull moose with this setup. It was also completely devastated.

In a previous build I was shooting ~430 gr arrows. When I switched to 520 gr my penetration improved drastically.

Yes, mechanicals can fail. It has never happened to me, but it can happen. But the benefit of large mechanicals is that they are more likely to be quickly fatal on a shot that is a little far back. I've had two occasions on pigs where a bad shot still dropped the pig within 50 yards.

With a 30" draw, I don't think you need to shoot a ton of weight, but I would increase your arrow weight & FOC.

 

[Beendare]

So much more to it than just a KE or Momentum number.

....
My set up is a 60lb Elite Pure at 30" draw length. I am shooting a 420 grain arrow at 284FPS for a KE of just short of 75ft lbs of energy.

A guy that takes good close shots can get away with a less efficient arrow/BH combo. Putting a strong efficient fixed COC head on your existing arrow will increase its penetration potential.

IME, I would elect for a heavier arrow [and I do!] along with the same strong COC head. This gives me better performance in cases where I didn't hit exactly where I was aiming....and I can take some shots I wouldn't attempt with lighter arrows/weaker BH's....like frontals....and through the collar.

Some will say,"Been you are taking marginal shots". .....ugh no. If you know where and when to shoot AND have the right equipment....those shots are 100% deadly.

It might be the difference between, "I didn't have a shot" and a dead elk. When calling elk, there are a lot of times when they don't present you with a perfect Broadside shot.

 

[Farmingdale's Finest]

So much more to it than just a KE or Momentum number.



A guy that takes good close shots can get away with a less efficient arrow/BH combo. Putting a strong efficient fixed COC head on your existing arrow will increase its penetration potential.

IME, I would elect for a heavier arrow [and I do!] along with the same strong COC head. This gives me better performance in cases where I didn't hit exactly where I was aiming....and I can take some shots I wouldn't attempt with lighter arrows/weaker BH's....like frontals....and through the collar.

Some will say,"Been you are taking marginal shots". .....ugh no. If you know where and when to shoot AND have the right equipment....those shots are 100% deadly.

It might be the difference between, "I didn't have a shot" and a dead elk. When calling elk, there are a lot of times when they don't present you with a perfect Broadside shot.

I fully understand that it is about shot placement. I have been exclusively bow hunting for 30 of the 35 years I have been hunting. I have prided myself with taking only good shots. I have killed well over 100 deer with the bow with my average shot distance of about 10 yards. My closest was 2 feet while standing on the ground and my farthest was 42 yards.

I am more serious about tuning my bows than most. I go so far as to make my own strings and have as good or better shop than most dealers. That being said I am a complete beginner when it comes to elk and the reason I am looking for guidance and why I asked the question the way I did in my first post.

While I would prefer to use a mechanical it is not because I can't get my fixed blade broadheads to fly well. It has been my experience with deer that they die much quicker and leave a better blood trail with the Gator/ Ulmer Edge type head than my fixed Muzzy and Magnus Stinger heads. I won't use a Rage because they seem too flimsy and would be concerned while I have blown through the legs of deer with the Gator I am not convinced it would be strong enough either regardless of my draw weight and arrow weight.

I am thinking most likely to use the Muzzy 3 blade original, The Magnus Stinger 4 blade or possibly try the Slick Trick Vipertrick. I have read so much contradictory information about the arrow weight my head is spinning. I am inclined to keep my arrow at what I am currently but am just not sure. Many say I should not use less than 450 grains then I saw a very successful elk guide say he is using a very similar set up to mine shooting 410 grain arrows tipped with Ulmer Edges. I could attain the 450 by going from 100 to 125 grain heads but that seems like such a minor change that I am overthinking this and should just hunt.

 

[Blockcaver]

Just go hunt elk and use your usual set up. It will work fine as long as shot placement is good, and you are correct, changing the arrow weight by 25 grains isn't significant unless arrow flight is compromised by the increased broadhead weight. I've shot around 40 elk with my bows (plus 5 moose and the big bears) using all kinds of bow set-ups from 55-70#s and arrows 375-550 grains (micro-diameter carbon to 23-15 aluminum) and many styles of fixed, replaceable and expandable heads. They all work if you are using decent quality components, the arrows fly well, and the shooter hits the chest cavity and stays away from the leg bones. Good luck on your elk hunt.

 

[roadrunner]

All anyone has is anecdotal evidence anyway and most PhD's in physics have better things to do than to calculate for everyone what the ideal setup is to kill an elk with archery tackle is.

Your setup is fine, mine is 300 fps and 400 gr arrows shooting good "COC" broadheads with zippo problems punching through elk. Besides, ask yourself, how do kids and small, petite frame women kill elk with lighter archery tackle than you're using? Simple - bowhunting setups are way overthought...

 

[geriggs]

I have killed a few elk at 60lbs and prefer to shoot 60. My arrow varies from 430-460gr. 29.5 in DL. With elk i always shoot a fixed but deer i shot a mule deer last year with a Rage hypo and it was devastating. I just worry about shoulder on elk and dont want to chance it. Knock on wood I have recovered all the elk i shot with a bow and never had to track more than 1 hour but I also had a lot of conficdence in a two blade or two blade with bleeder setup. Most of the elk i killed were with GKs. I have also killed them with TT Atac. This year im going to iron will. I also have Solids in my arsenal. They are all deadly. Good luck. Go hunt. Sharp Broadhead you will be fine. Me personally, i wouldnt shoot mechs at elk but i see plenty of guys that do and have lots of success.