How important (or not) is it to have a Rem 700 action trued and(or?) blueprinted?

[NorthIdahoDude]

I have burned up a bunch of Criterion blanks. The ones chambered by Criterion shot okay. Almost always around 1/2-5/8 moa for 5 shots and 1 moa for 10 shots. One barrel shot phenomenal.

And that's about what I was expecting - a true cone of fire around 1 to 1.25 ish MOA, with nine out of ten 3 to 5 shot groups being better than that. I feel like that's a pretty reasonable expectation for a prefit barrel in the $350-$450 price ballpark.

And to be honest, I feel like this barrel could probably get there, in a more precision action, hence this thread.

Take it for what it's worth. If there was no sentimental reason to keep the action, I would tell you to scrap it.

If there was no sentimental reason to keep it, I would be scrapping it without you needing to tell me!!! hahaha

 

[NorthIdahoDude]

Range Report with different scope (and rings, since I went from a 30mm to a 1 in): No change. If anything, it shot a bit worse today, but it was cold and rainy, so I'm not gonna quibble over 1/4 MOA one way or the other.

 

[Formidilosus]

Range Report with different scope (and rings, since I went from a 30mm to a 1 in): No change. If anything, it shot a bit worse today, but it was cold and rainy, so I'm not gonna quibble over 1/4 MOA one way or the other.

Send it to a legit gunsmith- @longrangelead is very good one.

 

[NorthIdahoDude]

Send it to a legit gunsmith- @longrangelead is very good one.

I'm definitely thinking real hard about going that route, if for no other reason than for my curiosity to know how much it does (or doesn't) matter to have it all trued up and worked over.

But the more rational part of me thinks dropping $200-$300 ish to do a bunch of work on an action that will always be an 80s model Rem 700 with the worst out-of-alignment scope bases I've ever seen in the wild is probably silly. Especially when this gun would be just as sentimental if it was hanging on my wall in the pretty wood OEM stock with iron sights and a cheap 4x scope on it.

But if I do that, then what to do with the 280AI barrel...

Oh well, things for me to think about -- and at this point my local range is closed for the season as of tomorrow, so I'll figure out what I want to do over the winter.

 

[Formidilosus]

I'm definitely thinking real hard about going that route, if for no other reason than for my curiosity to know how much it does (or doesn't) matter to have it all trued up and worked over.

But the more rational part of me thinks dropping $200-$300 ish to do a bunch of work on an action that will always be an 80s model Rem 700 with the worst out-of-alignment scope bases I've ever seen in the wild is probably silly. Especially when this gun would be just as sentimental if it was hanging on my wall in the pretty wood OEM stock with iron sights and a cheap 4x scope on it.

But if I do that, then what to do with the 280AI barrel...

Oh well, things for me to think about -- and at this point my local range is closed for the season as of tomorrow, so I'll figure out what I want to do over the winter.

Sentimental is the reason I suggested getting it fixed. A proper smith can reweld the action base holes, and drill and tap properly. Then fix the rifle.

 

[longrangelead]

In reality, the barrel can be the limiting factor. Some hammer, some don't.

I've had this barrel on two actions now. It started on my wife's rifle, now mine. It's a Krieger Palma in 6.5PRC.

I was worried it wouldn't shoot as well on a different action. Early on I tested a bunch of UM ammo, factory ammo and hand loads. This barrel simply shoots everything inside 1" or less.
The above groups was a powder scale test to see if measuring to the kernel actually made a difference.

Small sample size so it looks insignificant...

Anyway, I've had custom barrels never shoot this good and factory barrels shoot this good after lapping and recrowning on a trued action.

Truing the action almost always measurably reduces group size in my experience. It's not always 2.5" down to ¾", but a significant reduction.

An example, the last Rem I did was a budget build for a young man with limited funds. I took a early 90's 30-06, trued the action and bolt, etc., cut the barrel down to 20", lapped it, rechambered it to 300PRC, set headspace with a ptg lug and bedded it in the factory stock after lightening it.

It was shooting Hornady Precision Hunter ammo into ¾" when I gave it to him.

 

[Schmo]

No offense to @NorthIdahoDude, as I know his piece is sentimental. But this thread really brings to mind how well/consistent Tikka actions are!

 

[longrangelead]

No offense to @NorthIdahoDude, as I know his piece is sentimental. But this thread really brings to mind how well/consistent Tikka actions are!

And I'd rather not spend my days fixing Rems when all in a Tikka is better and cheaper for an average hunting rifle.

 

[NorthIdahoDude]

No offense to @NorthIdahoDude, as I know his piece is sentimental. But this thread really brings to mind how well/consistent Tikka actions are!

No offense taken! My main 'seriously accurate' rifle is a stainless Tikka T3 with a Shilen barrel in 7x57, and my main 'seriously accurate' rifle before that was a Tikka T3 in 308 Win (OEM barrel). Either of those can/could drill 30 rounds into comfortably under an inch with ammo they liked - even with my dumb ass behind the trigger.

 

[NorthIdahoDude]

Well, I gave it one last chance with 165 Sierra TGK's, and it was just as bad (worse even) than anything else I've tried. Which was kind of liberating actually; if they'd shot somewhat better but not amazing, I'd probably still be burning powder in this thing. But now I can confidently say - this is the end of going this direction. I think I'll just turn this back into a sentimental 30-06 and wall-hang it, and maybe dust it off once or twice a year for nostalgia's sake, and I'm happy with that.

Now I just have to decide what I want to do with the 280AI Barrel/Dies/Brass... Sell? Mount the barrel on my Remington 78 and see if that shoots better? See if I can find a Mack Bros or Defiance Classic on stupid-good-sale come Black Friday? Hmm.... things to think about over whiskey, LOL.

 

[Schmo]

Now I just have to decide what I want to do with the 280AI Barrel/Dies/Brass... Sell? Mount the barrel on my Remington 78 and see if that shoots better? See if I can find a Mack Bros or Defiance Classic on stupid-good-sale come Black Friday? Hmm.... things to think about over whiskey, LOL.

Sell the barrel and do one on a Tikka!

 

[NorthIdahoDude]

Sell the barrel and do one on a Tikka!

It crossed my mind, LOL - for around $140, I could get the shank on this re-threaded for a Tikka, which is probably less than I'd loose selling the whole affair (interesting trivia - Tikkas have a small enough thread pitch you can turn Rem/Age or Savage barrels into a Tikka w/ barrel nut, if your smith is agreeable - that's how I got my 7x57 Shilen on the Tikka - it was a Savage barrel originally).

That said though, for a Tikka I'd want to do a 284 Win or similar short(er) cartridge - 280AI is a much longer cartridge than fits in a Tikka, unless you only shoot short stubby bullets, or seat things around 1/4 inch from the lands (In the current barrel, it takes 3.555 to get the 175 ELD-X within .020 of the lands, and a Tikka mag going to max out around 3.34, even converting to aftermarket mags won't get you past 3.4 I don't think).

 

[Schmo]

It crossed my mind, LOL - for around $140, I could get the shank on this re-threaded for a Tikka, which is probably less than I'd loose selling the whole affair (interesting trivia - Tikkas have a small enough thread pitch you can turn Rem/Age or Savage barrels into a Tikka w/ barrel nut, if your smith is agreeable - that's how I got my 7x57 Shilen on the Tikka - it was a Savage barrel originally).

That said though, for a Tikka I'd want to do a 284 Win or similar short(er) cartridge - 280AI is a much longer cartridge than fits in a Tikka, unless you only shoot short stubby bullets, or seat things around 1/4 inch from the lands (In the current barrel, it takes 3.555 to get the 175 ELD-X within .020 of the lands, and a Tikka mag going to max out around 3.34, even converting to aftermarket mags won't get you past 3.4 I don't think).

UM Tikka DBM and mag allow for 3.54”

And Hawkins just released their Hunter DBM for Tikkas. LA gets 3.5”

 

[NorthIdahoDude]

UM Tikka DBM and mag allow for 3.54”

And Hawkins just released their Hunter DBM for Tikkas. LA gets 3.5”

Fair point, but then the price just for the smith and the mag system (and barrel nut) isn't too far off what it'd cost to get a Tikka Criterion prefit in 284 Win.

 

[Chris in TN]

Mount the barrel on my Remington 78 and see if that shoots better?

Yes. Try it for science.

 

[NorthIdahoDude]

Yes. Try it for science.

The more I've thought about it, I think for my own sanity, I'ma try this. That action, with the OEM 30-06 barrel on it in a chassis with a solid bedding block is just a hair over 1 MOA (and about 1.25-1.5 MOA in a cheap-o OEM stock with no bedding). So if the 280AI barrel shoots markedly better, I think we have a really solid case to say the 700 action is the heart of the issues. If it shoots exactly the same at it did in the 700, that's also an answer. In either case, it's almost-free.

Unfortunately, the nearest smith I know of that's setup to do OEM barrel removal on old 700's is about 40 mins drive a direction I would never otherwise go, so it might take me a bit to get together. I'll try to remember to report back once I get some results.

 

[ddowning]

The crazy thing is, you've got to be close to as much money in it to figure it out as it would have been to do a full truing job in the first place. I have done this exact same thing several times trying to save a dime. I have learned it works often enough to keep me trying , but not often enough to actually save money in the long run, across several projects.

I'd be willing to be that the trued and timed action with a barlein chambered by a good gunsmith in a stock bedded by a good gunsmith running lapua and Berger would shoot incredible. No more wasted time, money, or components to get it to shoot how you want. At that point, the question becomes, do I want Berger precision while giving up hornady eld or Sierra tmk terminal performance, or vice versa??

 

[NorthIdahoDude]

The crazy thing is, you've got to be close to as much money in it to figure it out as it would have been to do a full truing job in the first place. I have done this exact same thing several times trying to save a dime. I have learned it works often enough to keep me trying , but not often enough to actually save money in the long run, across several projects.

I'd be willing to be that the trued and timed action with a barlein chambered by a good gunsmith in a stock bedded by a good gunsmith running lapua and Berger would shoot incredible. No more wasted time, money, or components to get it to shoot how you want. At that point, the question becomes, do I want Berger precision while giving up hornady eld or Sierra tmk terminal performance, or vice versa??

I do totally get your point, and in fact agree with most of it (other than Bergers, I'm a hell no for hunting with them, LOL). If I was trying to build a 1/2 MOA really really long range gun, I would not have even considered this (or any OEM Remington) action in the first place. For that sort of thing I would immediately go straight to a Defiance/Zermatt/Impact/etc action and a Bartlien/Krieger/Muller/somesuch cut rifled barrel.

In this case, I was just trying to find a good use for a sentimental action (used to belong to a friend of mine, and before that, his dad), and as long as it was a honest cone of fire about 1.25 MOA or better, it would have totally made me happy here.


In the bigger picture, I have gone through phases. Once upon a time, after screwing with a bunch of garbage guns, I reached a point where if wouldn't shoot the second or third thing I tried in it, down the road it went. Then more recently I had a Shilen barrel transplanted from a Savage to a Tikka. It was a 3/4 MOA barrel in the savage, but the same load in the Tikka did not shoot well at all. Since I knew for a fact this barrel could shoot, I put some extra time and effort into it, and now it's a 3/4 MOA barrel again but with an entirely different bullet and powder. So I think that adventure kind of opened me up to the idea that it might take more work than just two or three trips to the range to make one go.

 

[ddowning]

I do totally get your point, and in fact agree with most of it (other than Bergers, I'm a hell no for hunting with them, LOL). If I was trying to build a 1/2 MOA really really long range gun, I would not have even considered this (or any OEM Remington) action in the first place. For that sort of thing I would immediately go straight to a Defiance/Zermatt/Impact/etc action and a Bartlien/Krieger/Muller/somesuch cut rifled barrel.

In this case, I was just trying to find a good use for a sentimental action (used to belong to a friend of mine, and before that, his dad), and as long as it was a honest cone of fire about 1.25 MOA or better, it would have totally made me happy here.


In the bigger picture, I have gone through phases. Once upon a time, after screwing with a bunch of garbage guns, I reached a point where if wouldn't shoot the second or third thing I tried in it, down the road it went. Then more recently I had a Shilen barrel transplanted from a Savage to a Tikka. It was a 3/4 MOA barrel in the savage, but the same load in the Tikka did not shoot well at all. Since I knew for a fact this barrel could shoot, I put some extra time and effort into it, and now it's a 3/4 MOA barrel again but with an entirely different bullet and powder. So I think that adventure kind of opened me up to the idea that it might take more work than just two or three trips to the range to make one go.

Most all my hunting is done with hornady bullets. If I want to see what something is capable of accuracy wise, it usually takes a better bullet. I just know that I won't get the same level of precision out of it as if I used berger, but usually it is better than good enough.

It is true that a different powder or bullet will sometimes shoot. I have had that happen as well. I just dont have a lot of patience for messing around with it anymore.