High volume strength training (10x10, 5x10, GVT, etc)- anyone have experience with it?

[mtwarden]

I had never heard of high volume strength training before until recently and was wondering if anyone has given it a go.

It sounds like most agree that's it should be a relatively short term training—6-8 weeks and only 2-4 times a week. 50-60% of your 1RM with sets of 10 reps; some argue 5x10, others 10x10.

Any experience bad or good?

This is pretty close to 180° from the 5/3/1 format I've been using for quite awhile, so curious

 

[accountantsanonymous]

Many many moons ago I did a squat program that had two phases. The first was high rep at that 50-60% range, similar to the example you’re mentioning.

While it’s absolutely brutal, working yourself to failure on almost every set, I personally think it’s a great way to train for strength.

I’ll add a caveat. I wouldn't recommend going from your couch, directly to this type of training. The volume would be way too much. Name of the squat program was Hatch. I’ll look for the spreadsheet.

Edit: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dakSL5kalTeQjR_aye2Bt8t9ZzHfrVfaQmLfhNQQ5TQ/edit

 

[rickyw]

Look into Dan John’s writings. Here is a sample: https://t-nation.com/t/mass-made-simple/284648
He also has a book called Mass Made Simple

I did a cycle last fall. I’ve strength trained consistently for years. Gained around 8lbs easy. Took around 12 sessions.

 

[Coach Chris]

High volume = low weight = minimal strength
High volume is generally considered hypertrophy training.
A hypertrophy cycle should be part of everyone's program. It's not the best way to get strong.

Take this for what you will

Higher training volumes leads to greater levels of CNS fatigue which reduces motor unit recruitment. Greater strength gains come from higher levels of motor unit recruitment especially of Type II b fibers

Does training with greater fatigue impair gains in speed?

Working harder (instead of smarter) during a strength training workout might actually be detrimental for athletic performance.

sandcresearch.medium.com

Good Journey!

 

[mtwarden]

If one was to try an high volume program, how often and how long should the hypertrophy cycle be?

I like Wendler’s program and no plan on abandoning it, but if it’s advantageous to do a hypertrophy cycle once in awhile- I’d give it a go

 

[CC55]

If one was to try an high volume program, how often and how long should the hypertrophy cycle be?

I like Wendler’s program and no plan on abandoning it, but if it’s advantageous to do a hypertrophy cycle once in awhile- I’d give it a go

No need to abandon 5/3/1 if you don't want to. You could just do the "boring but big" version of 5/3/1. It's just 5x10 for supplemental work at 50/60/70% of training max.

Ex:
Squat: 5/3/1 with min reps (don't go for PR, just maintaining top end strength)
Supplemental: squat or squat variation (SSB, front squat, high bar, etc) at 5x10. Week 1 use 50% of training max, week 2 use 60% of training max and week 3 use 70% of training max.

Generally not recommended for advanced guys or older lifters though due to the wear and tear 5x10 will give you with bigger weights. Week 3 is especially miserable ha.

Typically hypertrophy blocks are best suited in early offseason, I like around 8-12 weeks after a 6 week GPP block.

 

[rickyw]

If one was to try an high volume program, how often and how long should the hypertrophy cycle be?

I like Wendler’s program and no plan on abandoning it, but if it’s advantageous to do a hypertrophy cycle once in awhile- I’d give it a go

it’s meant to be done 6 or so weeks, then move on. 1-2x/ year

 

[SloppyJ]

I've been body building for over 15yrs now. I've tried it all. For years I lifted extremely heavy, like people staring at you heavy. It's fun and I love it. As I've gotten a bit older, I've settled into a routine that works for me with a much busier schedule than I used to have.

I workout 3 to 4x per week. I always start with a compound movement. This is where you get the most bang for the buck. Overhead barbell press, squat, deadlift, bench... I'll still work decently heavy here for 20 to 30 reps.

After that I move to high volume accessory stuff to get a ridiculous pump and shuttle nutrients to the muscles. I'll give you an example here for a chest day:

Benchpress:
warmup 135x 15
Stretch
225 x 10
275 x 10
315 to failure

Incline DB Press / Cable Fly superset
80 x 10 x 4 or failure - incline
40 x 12 x 4 cable fly
Stretch between each set by holding your arm out against something and twisting your body

Unweighted dips
1x15
2 additional sets to failure

I'll typically finish up with sets of 20 low cable flys at an extreme light weight pausing to squeeze on every rep just to really top off the pump.

This isn't the method on how I got to where I'm at but it's been the best way I've found to stay injury free and maintain a physique.

There is something about high volume work that beneficial for ME. Like everything else in bodybuilding, you'll have to dedicate some time to it and see how it works for you and your body.

 

[Coach Chris]

If one was to try an high volume program, how often and how long should the hypertrophy cycle be?

12 weeks is good amount of time if bodybuilding isn't your main goal.

 

[Onys]

It’s tough but great for muscle growth. Just keep it short-term and focus on recovery.

 

[LostArra]

For this old guy any sets over 5 reps except warmups are a painful waste of time that just aggravate arthritic joints that have long lost their cartilage lining.

I find more benefit from two sets of heavier 5's than a lighter set of 10. And depending on the day, three or four sets of even heavier 3's is better.

I do remember my younger days when the 20 rep squat was the "answer". But then I realized the "question" was
How do I get really tired and sore in 3 minutes with a light weight that doesn't make me stronger?

 

[180ls1]

I think you should try it. Experimenting and trying new things in the gym gives you different reference points/experience.


I think what you outlined is great for learning a movement pattern, maybe not the best for outright strength or mass.

 

[mtwarden]

After further reading, I think I would try 5x10 before 10x10. Looks like (from at least limited studies) that the juice isn’t worth the squeeze with 10 sets. One study showed better results with 5 sets of 10 vs 10 sets.

I might give the Big, But Boring a go. Wendler hasn’t steered me wrong yet

 

[mtnbound]

Typically exercises in the 10 rep range are more about building muscle. If strength is your goal I would drop the rep range to 2-6. Keep your accessory exercises in the 10-15 rep range. Not saying you won’t get stronger at doing sets of 10 but the lower reps with good form is better. I also find I have less soreness and recover faster in the lower rep range.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[H'n'F]

I use reps in the 12-15 range to build muscle endurance for 2-3 weeks at the end of a strength cycle. Slow eccentric movement is another way to work on muscle endurance. I run programs that are all over the map to try and stay ahead of the adaptation... Our bodies are really good at that. I am currently in the last 2 weeks of a 12 week program and at the end of a big cut. I'm working in the 12-20 rep range. My next program, during maintenance or a slight surplus, will be more high intensity and will also really push my muscle endurance as I approach my elk hunt in Oct/Nov........But.....I will begin to deload as my hunt approaches so I can be recovered and able to peak for my week in the mountains. Good Luck!!

 

[Coach Chris]

I use reps in the 12-15 range to build muscle endurance for 2-3 weeks at the end of a strength cycle. Slow eccentric movement is another way to work on muscle endurance. I run programs that are all over the map to try and stay ahead of the adaptation... Our bodies are really good at that. I am currently in the last 2 weeks of a 12 week program and at the end of a big cut. I'm working in the 12-20 rep range. My next program, during maintenance or a slight surplus, will be more high intensity and will also really push my muscle endurance as I approach my elk hunt in Oct/Nov........But.....I will begin to deload as my hunt approaches so I can be recovered and able to peak for my week in the mountains. Good Luck!!

You train 100% contrary to how I program for some of the best endurance and ultra-endurance mountain sports athletes in the world

What you're doing is improving your relative strength-endurance. You're becoming efficient at doing high reps with light weight at those specific exercises.
The SAID Principle states that the body specifically adapts to the demands imposed upon it.
From a physiological perspective you're actually doing hypertrophy training. You're bodybuilding.

Good Journey!

 

[fngTony]

I’m not following any specific plan but that’s the principle I came up with for myself. Big benefit is endurance in the field and reduction in fatigue. Muscles are a lot happier after a hard day.

 

[Atoka Man]

I had never heard of high volume strength training before until recently and was wondering if anyone has given it a go.

It sounds like most agree that's it should be a relatively short term training—6-8 weeks and only 2-4 times a week. 50-60% of your 1RM with sets of 10 reps; some argue 5x10, others 10x10.

Any experience bad or good?

This is pretty close to 180° from the 5/3/1 format I've been using for quite awhile, so curious

I have experience working both of these different approaches into my training and training for others.

Both are good and both work. In my experience as a personal trainer and strength and conditioning coach every thing works, but consistency is the key. That being said approaches like German Volume Training are intended to be a cycle like you stated 3-8 weeks. This should probably be done on the off season (non-hunting season here) and will probably cause significant soreness initially. Good way to build muscle as long as your nutrition supports it.

On the contrary 5/3/1 has some many variations of the program, for the average person they can run one of theses and continue to make steady progress towards goals.

 

[justinspicher]

I do this daily with kettlebells. I'm generally in the 100-200 swings a day program, but right now I'm bumping that up to 300-400 daily.

 

[bowhuntercoop]

After further reading, I think I would try 5x10 before 10x10. Looks like (from at least limited studies) that the juice isn’t worth the squeeze with 10 sets. One study showed better results with 5 sets of 10 vs 10 sets.

I might give the Big, But Boring a go. Wendler hasn’t steered me wrong yet

Boring but big 3 months challeng is amazing. I’m 5’6 160-165lbs. I went from 245 on bench to 305 in a year. Every 3 months just upped the max by 10-15 pounds. Eat like a freak on carnivore and train hard. I’m 37 and in the best shape of my life. That program will make you incredibly strong.