High POI when shooting up hill?

[The Guide]

High angle shots rare? I guess it depends on the location, cause high angle shots have been a regular thing in AZ.

It has been my experience that high angle shots up (over about 20⁰) required either getting closer or repositioning in order to get a good shooting position. This often brings the shot more level. We frequently have shots on game at some distance below us. Those shots are far easier to build a shooting position on and make the shot. They tend to follow the same dope change as up angle shots. Wind has the same effect on these angled shots as they would if it was a 0⁰ angle shot on the true LOS distance. Just because you are only shooting to 500 yards for your trajectory where gravity has its effects, if your bullet is actually traveling 700 yards it will still have wind forces that impact it for the 700 yards of flight time. This makes up/down draft readings just as important as angular wind readings. This is why shooting in field positions in field conditions are far more difficult than shooting on a flat range from a bench.

Jay

 

[hereinaz]

It has been my experience that high angle shots up (over about 20⁰) required either getting closer or repositioning in order to get a good shooting position. This often brings the shot more level. We frequently have shots on game at some distance below us. Those shots are far easier to build a shooting position on and make the shot. They tend to follow the same dope change as up angle shots. Wind has the same effect on these angled shots as they would if it was a 0⁰ angle shot on the true LOS distance. Just because you are only shooting to 500 yards for your trajectory where gravity has its effects, if your bullet is actually traveling 700 yards it will still have wind forces that impact it for the 700 yards of flight time. This makes up/down draft readings just as important as angular wind readings. This is why shooting in field positions in field conditions are far more difficult than shooting on a flat range from a bench.

Jay

Agreed. High angle is uncommon and more uncommon to shoot higher.

Shooting down is much easier. And way more common because you can see over things. Elevation is always an advantage hunting.

I always try to get closer, but the shot is what presents. With a tripod, I can build the position much easier. Once something is possible, practice makes it more probable.

 

[The Guide]

As a side note, the difficulty of getting into a position for angles shots is another reason why I just went 99% tripod shooting for long range. I can keep it consistent and I don’t have to lay down and get in contorted positions.

Going to consistent positions relative to the tripod is one thing that led me to my belief. I saw the difference in angled shots. Adding ballast to weigh the tripod down reduced vertical dispersion on angled shots. On flat shots, it just reduced groups over all.

And, when I make a mistake in flat, I get way more random dispersion. Mistakes at angle starts to stretch up.

Could just be me and I am way off…

This is the most common issue. Finding the right position that is comfortable and yet you can still see the target while maintaining good form. Bipod shooting, backpack shooting, and tripod shooting all have their place and sometimes you've got to use a little bit of everything to make your shots work.

Jay

 

[TimberHunter]

To add a bit more info, reference this picture. Rock is just under 900, pretty steep angle(around 25 I’d say). I will confirm angle next time I’m there and compare angle compensation from the range finder to LOS from the range finder plus entering angle into shooter app.


Red are the impacts that I observed. POA was center of rock for all shots. First shot hit the rock center with follow up shots missing. So my belief is my dope is alright but my shooting ability struggles on uphill shots

Someone made mention somewhere that the Rokstok helped them with high misses. Likely because of the flat toe helping to keep the rifle from firing into a moment arm

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[hereinaz]

To add a bit more info, reference this picture. Rock is just under 900, pretty steep angle(around 25 I’d say). I will confirm angle next time I’m there and compare angle compensation from the range finder to LOS from the range finder plus entering angle into shooter app.


Red are the impacts that I observed. POA was center of rock for all shots. First shot hit the rock center with follow up shots missing. So my belief is my dope is alright but my shooting ability struggles on uphill shots

Someone made mention somewhere that the Rokstok helped them with high misses. Likely because of the flat toe helping to keep the rifle from firing into a moment arm

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Cool spot.

Rokstock, I think, gives a combination of the higher butt pad, putting shoulder closer to bore and the additional support the stock gets from underneath with the flat toe. That helps tremendously. The grip to trigger distance also helps positive control.

It is so hard to tell why we miss in the field and on rocks. I have a hard time getting confident, is it my error vs dope— when we have smaller shot samples…

I know first hand how hard it is to draw conclusions. So, I just bought a piece of steel that is 30” x 22” to hang at 500 yards and further, to actually show my misses (and diagnosis rifles and others). It will be good for training wind too. I might miss the 10” bullseye I paint on it, but I hope I don’t miss the whole plate at 500, lol.

 

[TimberHunter]

Cool spot.

Rokstock, I think, gives a combination of the higher butt pad, putting shoulder closer to bore and the additional support the stock gets from underneath with the flat toe. That helps tremendously. The grip to trigger distance also helps positive control.

It is so hard to tell why we miss in the field and on rocks. I have a hard time getting confident, is it my error vs dope— when we have smaller shot samples…

I know first hand how hard it is to draw conclusions. So, I just bought a piece of steel that is 30” x 22” to hang at 500 yards and further, to actually show my misses (and diagnosis rifles and others). It will be good for training wind too. I might miss the 10” bullseye I paint on it, but I hope I don’t miss the whole plate at 500, lol.

I do the same but with shooting larger rocks at further distances. I’d much rather know where I missed.

People always find my steel and shoot it up and NEVER repaint it so I stopped shooting steel


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[roadrunner]

Gravity is a constant. Angles give rise to resultant vectors (recoil and line of action travel at recoil).

The butt of the rifle not centered in your shoulder like it is on flat ground or off a bench has more to do with it than anything else. This can effectively compromise your POA relative to how you're looking through your scope.

You want your shoulder perpendicular to the recoil line of action as much as possible

It's like shooting a bow, you bend at the waist when shooting up or down and not at the upper torso/shoulders.

 

[TimberHunter]

Gravity is a constant. Angles give rise to resultant vectors (recoil and line of action travel at recoil).

The butt of the rifle not centered in your shoulder like it is on flat ground or off a bench has more to do with it than anything else. This can effectively compromise your POA relative to how you're looking through your scope.

You want your shoulder perpendicular to the recoil line of action as much as possible

It's like shooting a bow, you bend at the waist when shooting up or down and not at the upper torso/shoulders.

Good points on the body in alignment… often times when I’m shooting up hill, my body is on relatively flat ground with the rifle being angled upwards. The angle transition happens at the shoulder/butt stock transition


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