High exertion layering- merino under synthetic or?synthetic under merino

[Erussell01]

I need people with more experience with Merino to help me out here...

So I've been doing a ton of testing lately and I'm finding something that doesn't make sense to me so hopefully someone can help me understand

I've been testing 2 basic systems right now.

One featuring a merino next to skin layer and one featuring a poly next to skin.

Specifically I've been putting my sitka core lw short sleeve up against a kuiu merino 125 t.

What I'm finding is that they both perform well when they are exposed to air. Meaning if I wear them biking running or rucking 'll sweat but they both dry quick.

However when they aren't exposed to air. Namely when I have them covered by a mid layer they act differently. When I wear the kuiu merino 125 under a fleece it actually seems to not dry as well as the sitka. When I cover the merino with more merino in the form of a kuiu 145 hoody it seems to stay more dry as if it pulls the moisture into the 2nd layer of merino. It also seems when I wear the 145 over a synthetic base layer it pulls moisture into that outer layer more as well.

The outlier is when I wear my ambient or mdwi- both dry ridiculously fast even under heavy exertion. It's like that material sucks moisture off my skin regardless of base layer type.

This has me thinking- is it best to not blend them to allow for the natural properties of each fabric to do its best work?

I'm always tinkering and I'm currently sitting on my spin bike listening to an 8 hour review meeting so I'm trying to figure out if what I'm experiencing makes sense or not.

It makes me also think I should test a synthetic baselayer with a moderate weight merino over the top to see if it pulls the moisture off my skin and into the hydrophilic merino layer.


Am I nuts? Yes.

But I can't elk hunt for like 14 more days.

 

[Erussell01]

Also yes, I do really think about layering systems and elk hunting 365 days a year. My wife God bless her is patient with me.

Am I on roklside too much?

Yes.

 

[DakotaBPNW]

I’ve been doing some similar testing lately with a Stone Glacier Merino T and a Stone Glacier Avro T. I wear one or the other when I’m rucking and also while riding the Peloton which gets them both nice and sweaty.

I’ve found that they both pull moisture off of the skin in a similar timeframe, and they also both dry pretty similarly. The biggest gain with the merino for me is that there is zero funky smell even after a couple of days. The synthetic piece doesn’t get too bad but it’s definitely noticeable.

Also a small note, I find that I like having the merino on when rucking or wearing a pack in general. It’s just more comfortable overall to me underneath the hip belt and shoulder straps.

 

[Erussell01]

I’ve been doing some similar testing lately with a Stone Glacier Merino T and a Stone Glacier Avro T. I wear one or the other when I’m rucking and also while riding the Peloton which gets them both nice and sweaty.

I’ve found that they both pull moisture off of the skin in a similar timeframe, and they also both dry pretty similarly. The biggest gain with the merino for me is that there is zero funky smell even after a couple of days. The synthetic piece doesn’t get too bad but it’s definitely noticeable.

Also a small note, I find that I like having the merino on when rucking or wearing a pack in general. It’s just more comfortable overall to me underneath the hip belt and shoulder straps.

Have you found any durability issues at all with the SG merino? I'm seeing some wear on my kuiu after 3 years of moderate use (ain't mad at all its held up good) I'm concerned for merino used under a heavy pack for long durations. I wore through a different baselayer last year on my pack out from hell so I'm kind of looking ahead to hopefully needing another one for a long terrible pack out

 

[DakotaBPNW]

Have you found any durability issues at all with the SG merino? I'm seeing some wear on my kuiu after 3 years of moderate use (ain't mad at all its held up good) I'm concerned for merino used under a heavy pack for long durations. I wore through a different baselayer last year on my pack out from hell so I'm kind of looking ahead to hopefully needing another one for a long terrible pack out

I have the Chinook Hoody, T-Shirt and long sleeve. I’ve had them all for probably 3 years now and wear them for just about everything. They’ve held up great, very little piling at all. I believe the nylon blend that they do is meant to increase durability and it works great.

 

[Erussell01]

I have the Chinook Hoody, T-Shirt and long sleeve. I’ve had them all for probably 3 years now and wear them for just about everything. They’ve held up great, very little piling at all. I believe the nylon blend that they do is meant to increase durability and it works great.

Man I think blends really improve the quality of merino.
I have some 100% merino baselayers and I just don't love them. They seem to pill bad and they just don't hold their shape

 

[DakotaBPNW]

Man I think blends really improve the quality of merino.
I have some 100% merino baselayers and I just don't love them. They seem to pill bad and they just don't hold their shape

Yeah I agree. I have some 100% Merino zip off long John’s that I rarely wear and they look beat after just a few years.

 

[Erussell01]

Does anybody find heavier merino base or midlayers to lose their advantage when compared to light weight merino base layers?

I am seeing that 250 or so gsm merino seems to just hold moisture whereas light merino seems to do really well at drying quick. It makes me rethink layering with heay merino for cold weather active pursuits.

I'll often wear a 250gsm merino too and bottom hunting deer later season which is generally lower activity, but I've been wearing the same for grouse and pheasant late season and I'm really reconsidering my baselayer choice. It sure seems like lighter baselayers dry faster and move moisture better than the heavier stuff. I'm still looking for a heavy heavy merino hoody just for tree stand sits, but I'm considering getting sitka mid or heavy baselayer bottoms for this fall

 

[MT_Wyatt]

I need people with more experience with Merino to help me out here...

So I've been doing a ton of testing lately and I'm finding something that doesn't make sense to me so hopefully someone can help me understand

I've been testing 2 basic systems right now.

One featuring a merino next to skin layer and one featuring a poly next to skin.

Specifically I've been putting my sitka core lw short sleeve up against a kuiu merino 125 t.

What I'm finding is that they both perform well when they are exposed to air. Meaning if I wear them biking running or rucking 'll sweat but they both dry quick.

However when they aren't exposed to air. Namely when I have them covered by a mid layer they act differently. When I wear the kuiu merino 125 under a fleece it actually seems to not dry as well as the sitka. When I cover the merino with more merino in the form of a kuiu 145 hoody it seems to stay more dry as if it pulls the moisture into the 2nd layer of merino. It also seems when I wear the 145 over a synthetic base layer it pulls moisture into that outer layer more as well.

The outlier is when I wear my ambient or mdwi- both dry ridiculously fast even under heavy exertion. It's like that material sucks moisture off my skin regardless of base layer type.

This has me thinking- is it best to not blend them to allow for the natural properties of each fabric to do its best work?

I'm always tinkering and I'm currently sitting on my spin bike listening to an 8 hour review meeting so I'm trying to figure out if what I'm experiencing makes sense or not.

It makes me also think I should test a synthetic baselayer with a moderate weight merino over the top to see if it pulls the moisture off my skin and into the hydrophilic merino layer.


Am I nuts? Yes.

But I can't elk hunt for like 14 more days.

I don't like merino past the base layer, yes it pulls moisture, but it holds it in my experience. Using fleece/active insualtion seems to work well with merino under to help get things dry, while keeping the funk down. I can toast a sythetic piece like the Avro in two days, have pushed it to 2.5-3. I like merino for backpack hunts and generally like how it feels next to skin more. I've had merino based mid layers and they haven't been great apart from being quiet.

The ambient really ended a lot of layering system fluctuation for me. I use it for everything past my baselayer instead of a fleece, right or wrong. I've used the SG merino stuff and had good luck, went back to that for a baselayer top this year.

 

[Erussell01]

I don't like merino past the base layer, yes it pulls moisture, but it holds it in my experience. Using fleece/active insualtion seems to work well with merino under to help get things dry, while keeping the funk down. I can toast a sythetic piece like the Avro in two days, have pushed it to 2.5-3. I like merino for backpack hunts and generally like how it feels next to skin more. I've had merino based mid layers and they haven't been great apart from being quiet.

The ambient really ended a lot of layering system fluctuation for me. I use it for everything past my baselayer instead of a fleece, right or wrong. I've used the SG merino stuff and had good luck, went back to that for a baselayer top this year.

So for your personal layering system you chose a merino next to skin (what weight) and then the ambient?
That seems to be what I'm finding is the quickest drying across all conditions in my own testing... I think it must be the breathability of the ambient helping to dry the merino faster?

 

[MT_Wyatt]

So for your personal layering system you chose a merino next to skin (what weight) and then the ambient?
That seems to be what I'm finding is the quickest drying across all conditions in my own testing... I think it must be the breathability of the ambient helping to dry the merino faster?

Yes - I used the 150 weight wick SS shirt a lot from FL, and a SG chinook crew which is 170 GSM, which I also like a lot. I think the heat buildup in the ambient combined with breathability certainly helps things.

 

[Erussell01]

Yes - I used the 150 weight wick SS shirt a lot from FL, and a SG chinook crew which is 170 GSM, which I also like a lot. I think the heat buildup in the ambient combined with breathability certainly helps things.

How was the durability of FL?

 

[Fins_N_Tines]

Couple of things as I have done a bunch of testing with sitka core lt wt hoody and SG merino hoody and now the new sikta merino 120 hoody.

If smelling good is important to you than merino is hands down the winner and it's not even close. I really love merino and how it feels against my skin; however, it holds moisture closer to skin, is not as durable, and is a pain in the a** to pull your 2nd layer over. I hate how bunched up merino gets after you pull your mid layer over.

Note: I will say sometimes merino's ability to hold moisture closer to skin actually can cool you down when its hot and you have a nice breeze.

 

[shwacker]

I have found merino to hold moisture a lot more, but a well designed synthetic blend can solve a lot of its shortcomings, as well as very thin fabric.

What's over it definitely matters also. My goal is always to sweat as little as possible, especially in the cold, regardless of clothing choices.

Like in winter climbing, if I'm busting up to the top then sitting around in cold, I would consider a second baselayer and changing out of the wet one.

 

[MT_Wyatt]

How was the durability of FL?

It’s fine, I’ve got aerowool that’s been beat to hell and still fine. If you care about pilling and holes every once in a while then all merino sucks, but I’ve been happy with the performance and toughness.

 

[croben]

Merino will take longer to dry than synthetic when comparing similar pieces. Merino won’t get as stinky as synthetic and it will stay warm even when wet. Drying out isn’t a huge factor in warmer weather, but it can be really important in colder weather.

Stone Glacier and Sitka both have videos on rewarming where they purposely get soaking wet in winter conditions and see how their products do. The synthetic outperformed the merino on both in terms of drying quicker.

I quit wearing any kind of wool a couple years ago, but have been testing some merino this summer. I’ll run merino base layers in warmer weather, but switch to synthetic as soon as the temps start dropping.

 

[Erussell01]

Couple of things as I have done a bunch of testing with sitka core lt wt hoody and SG merino hoody and now the new sikta merino 120 hoody.

If smelling good is important to you than merino is hands down the winner and it's not even close. I really love merino and how it feels against my skin; however, it holds moisture closer to skin, is not as durable, and is a pain in the a** to pull your 2nd layer over. I hate how bunched up merino gets after you pull your mid layer over.

Note: I will say sometimes merino's ability to hold moisture closer to skin actually can cool you down when its hot and you have a nice breeze.

Yeah I think super light merino Is actually my preference in the high heat. I have thar kuiu 145 I wear as a sun shirt and it absolutely rocks when it's really hot out. Keeps the sun off my neck and head and breathes very well. I haven't honestly used it a ton for elk but I wear it antelope hunting and it has done well so far.

 

[Erussell01]

I have found merino to hold moisture a lot more, but a well designed synthetic blend can solve a lot of its shortcomings, as well as very thin fabric.

What's over it definitely matters also. My goal is always to sweat as little as possible, especially in the cold, regardless of clothing choices.

Like in winter climbing, if I'm busting up to the top then sitting around in cold, I would consider a second baselayer and changing out of the wet one.

Makes sense for very cold weather for sure. I've really started to wear less and less to start the day. I usually start cold so I don't overheat right away. I'm a heavy sweater so I can easily sweat out a base layer if I am over layered.

 

[Erussell01]

Merino will take longer to dry than synthetic when comparing similar pieces. Merino won’t get as stinky as synthetic and it will stay warm even when wet. Drying out isn’t a huge factor in warmer weather, but it can be really important in colder weather.

Stone Glacier and Sitka both have videos on rewarming where they purposely get soaking wet in winter conditions and see how their products do. The synthetic outperformed the merino on both in terms of drying quicker.

I quit wearing any kind of wool a couple years ago, but have been testing some merino this summer. I’ll run merino base layers in warmer weather, but switch to synthetic as soon as the temps start dropping.

I think that's my plan too, and in fact I might just run a merino t shirt under my core LW hoody this year to give me a little stink control without my whole system being merino. I really really like synthetic, especially the core lw stuff since it dries so fast and does really well for me with stink management (at least for a couple good days before I need to swap)

 

[bard]

I find synthetics to be better short term. They dry quicker. The downside is they smell to high heaven past day 2. Not a fan for myself or having anyone in the hunting party wearing them on anything past a day trip. Also not a fan of synthetics once your sweated up once you stop moving if it's cold out. That cold clammy feeling is not the greatest. I don't seem to get that with merino.