Help - tikka decision

[BustedRagHorn]

Are you sure about 300 win mag? I have a tikka t3x in 300 win mag, killed several animals with it. I also have two friends and a father in law, all with the same gun in the same caliber. There is nothing wrong with it, I have seen that gun kill more animals than anything else. As others have said though, it kicks like a mule. I have one friend who threw a suppressor on his and has convinced me I need one as well. I would highly recommend you view the suppressor as a must, not a maybe. A good brake is an option so long as you are sure you will put on hearing protection before every shot, personally I know I will not take the time to throw in ear plugs when I am so amped up to take a shot at an animal. The decibel level of a 300 win mag with a brake is no joke. The gun is a tack driver and slinging 200 grains almost 3000 fps is a blast, but it is way more fun when the recoil is manageable.

 

[Smokinyotes]

My old Tikka 300wm has shot probably at least 10 moose, few elk and a ton of deer. It was in the Tupperware stock and shooting it off the bench, my eyes would start to cross after about 9 shots. I put it in a Boyd’s laminate with a good re oil pad and it’s like a different gun.

 

[270-300]

This is not correct.

It absoloutely is. Put a slow burn powder in a short barrel, you will have a fireball and low velocity.

People much smarter than you or I were paid big money figure out how long of barrels certain powders need in various calibers. I have noticed on here some people confusing the 300 short action magnum with belted 300 win mag.

 

[270-300]

Well, that's +/- why I said "cartridge aside", becasue I wouldnt buy a 300magnum of any flavor at all, let alone in a light hunting rifle, because for my uses I can do functionally the same thing with way less recoil--but that wasnt the point, and the OP didnt specify enough to say one way or another. Just saying that even at moderately long range the real-world difference between a couple inches of barrel length is in your head more than it's reality--it's like 50 yards of terminal range difference, which doesnt even become relevant until you're at distances 99% of people shouldnt even be shooting at critters. That, and 22" and 24" are both too long IMO when you add a suppressor. Beyond that, it's all aesthetics--if you want a 300winmag, then get it, and if you want it "optimised" then do that--the point is simply that doing that doesnt functionally change the outcome unless you're shooting at stuff WAAAAY out there. And at that point I'm looking for a different gun altogether, not a 6.25lb sporter rifle.

Having more weight further out makes a noticable difference for recoil. The chronograph will notice as well.

 

[270-300]

Gross, give me a sawed off, suppressed rifle any day. I went from a 24” 300wsm to a 20” wsm with a can to a 18” 6.5prc also suppressed and no longer or heavier than the original 24” wsm barrel.
No way I was spotting shots with the wsm in any barrel length, but I can with the prc, and the rifle is sub 9lbs all in, ready to hunt.

The key here is your are talking about Winchester Short Magnum. Big difference in barrel and action application for that vs the cartridge op is talking about.

 

[Mike D Texas]

It absoloutely is. Put a slow burn powder in a short barrel, you will have a fireball and low velocity.

People much smarter than you or I were paid big money figure out how long of barrels certain powders need in various calibers. I have noticed on here some people confusing the 300 short action magnum with belted 300 win mag.

You mean like H1000in a 21” barrel running 153.5 LR Hybrids at 3100fps?

Sure, ok.

Or how about RL26 in a 21” barrel pushing 195 TMK at 2950?

Gotcha.

 

[270-300]

You mean like H1000in a 21” barrel running 153.5 LR Hybrids at 3100fps?

Sure, ok.

Or how about RL26 in a 21” barrel pushing 195 TMK at 2950?

Gotcha.

Those are slow loads for 300 win mag.

You mean like H1000in a 21” barrel running 153.5 LR Hybrids at 3100fps?

Sure, ok.

Or how about RL26 in a 21” barrel pushing 195 TMK at 2950?

Gotcha.

Id be glad to read the source material you have from commerical ammunition developers demonstrating how 21" barrels are the go to for 300 win mag now.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

It absoloutely is. Put a slow burn powder in a short barrel, you will have a fireball and low velocity.

People much smarter than you or I were paid big money figure out how long of barrels certain powders need in various calibers. I have noticed on here some people confusing the 300 short action magnum with belted 300 win mag.

Fireball, yes, slower than the longer barrel, yes. But the drop in velocity will be negligibly different than the drop in velocity for the same barrel length change with a faster burning powder, and not enough for the faster powder to come up in the front. People much smarter than you did do the math and created some great models, now their lives' work is readily accessible to anyone who's literate.


300 win mag, appropriately slow powder H1000, ~60,000 psi, cut off 8” of barrel length, muzzle velocity drops from 2921 fps to 2592 fpss, or 41 fps/in of barrel.





300 win mag, fastest powder listed by hodgdon IMR 4350, ~60,000 psi, cut off 8” of barrel length, muzzle velocity drops from 2785 fps to 2503 fps, 35 fps/in of barrel





so, it would be ludicrous to switch to a faster powder when talking about a 2" change in barrel length, when even an 8" change in barrel length does not make the faster powder end up with a higher muzzle velocity.

GRT is free and can be a good tool for anyone who wants to actually understand what is going on with internal ballistics, but that knowledge is not going to help you hit targets any better.

 

[Mike D Texas]

Those are slow loads for 300 win mag.
Id be glad to read the source material you have from commerical ammunition developers demonstrating how 21" barrels are the go to for 300 win mag now.

The first cartridge is a 6.5 SAUM Improved.

The second one is a 300 SAUM Improved.

Who said anything about factory loads? You were the one that said use a faster powder and that slow powders would cause slow velocities, so I thought we were talking about hand loads.

And since you brought up factory loads and 300 Win Mag, most factory loads with 180 grain bullets are running 2960, in a 24-26” test barrel.

I don’t give a flip what ammunition developers have to say about 21” barrels. Reloaders and wildcatters have been outperforming factory ammo for years.

I’ll be glad to listen to anything you have to back up those loads being slow in a 21” barrels. Where’s your comparable data for 300 win mag running faster with equal bullet weights and barrel lengths.

 

[bwood1]

No I have not, but this is not really intended to be a bench gun. I think I handle recoil okay too. Do you have any other recs for a 300 wm that isn't as much of a handful?

You'll be fine. I shoot a Tikka t3x superlite 22.4" threaded and fluted barrel braked with an area 419 sidewinder. It feels like a 243. I can't afford to shoot 300 rounds at the range all day, but it wouldn't be too bad.

A suppressor probably won't help that much, but I would expect recoil closer to a .308 when you pair it with a good suppressor.

 

[270-300]

The first cartridge is a 6.5 SAUM Improved.

The second one is a 300 SAUM Improved.

Who said anything about factory loads? You were the one that said use a faster powder and that slow powders would cause slow velocities, so I thought we were talking about hand loads.

And since you brought up factory loads and 300 Win Mag, most factory loads with 180 grain bullets are running 2960, in a 24-26” test barrel.

I don’t give a flip what ammunition developers have to say about 21” barrels. Reloaders and wildcatters have been outperforming factory ammo for years.

I’ll be glad to listen to anything you have to back up those loads being slow in a 21” barrels. Where’s your comparable data for 300 win mag running faster with equal bullet weights and barrel lengths.

So you dont have any evidence of this? No scientific testing, just your own conclusions?

 

[270-300]

Fireball, yes, slower than the longer barrel, yes. But the drop in velocity will be negligibly different than the drop in velocity for the same barrel length change with a faster burning powder, and not enough for the faster powder to come up in the front. People much smarter than you did do the math and created some great models, now their lives' work is readily accessible to anyone who's literate.


300 win mag, appropriately slow powder H1000, ~60,000 psi, cut off 8” of barrel length, muzzle velocity drops from 2921 fps to 2592 fpss, or 41 fps/in of barrel.
View attachment 1027428

View attachment 1027429


300 win mag, fastest powder listed by hodgdon IMR 4350, ~60,000 psi, cut off 8” of barrel length, muzzle velocity drops from 2785 fps to 2503 fps, 35 fps/in of barrel

View attachment 1027431

View attachment 1027432

so, it would be ludicrous to switch to a faster powder when talking about a 2" change in barrel length, when even an 8" change in barrel length does not make the faster powder end up with a higher muzzle velocity.

GRT is free and can be a good tool for anyone who wants to actually understand what is going on with internal ballistics, but that knowledge is not going to help you hit targets any better.

So your effectively turning 300.win mag into 30 06 but still wasting the extra powder and using the more expensive 300 win mag brass?

 

[Raghorn54]

Just get the light stainless or superlite from sportsman's warehouse. Don't waste your money on those dumb rough tech , ember whatever models are called.

This is good advice.

If you’re set on 300WM, the 22” factory threaded stainless is it.

I have an older T3X lite stainless 300WM that I had cut to 22” and threaded. It’s very manageable with a brake, almost equally so with a can. It’s been an awesome rifle for me, killed a few annimals, and I’ve chrono’d factory ELDM 195s at 2900+.

But I’m making the switch to the same rifle in 6.5 PRC this year… I just shoot better and more consistently with less recoil, from all positions. Next year, it’ll probably be a 6CM

 

[thinhorn_AK]

So your effectively turning 300.win mag into 30 06 but still wasting the extra powder and using the more expensive 300 win mag brass?

Which is why it’s stupid to suppress magnums…..

 

[Beendare]

Have you shot a tikka in 300, if you haven’t try and get a go of one before you invest, they are a handful.

Good advice^

Everyone I know that had one has either sold it or its collecting dust. The most popular calibers among guys I know now shoot 280ai or 6.5prc

 

[Castle Rock]

No I have not, but this is not really intended to be a bench gun. I think I handle recoil okay too. Do you have any other recs for a 300 wm that isn't as much of a handful?

The only rifles I have enjoyed shooting in 300 win mag and 338 win mag have been older Ruger and Winchester model 70s with the classic styled timber stocks, something about wood seems to tame them, and the weight and 24 inch barrels definitely help.

Personally I don’t think a 300 is a hot ticket anymore, and the PRCs seem a bit problematical with their tight dimensions.

In your situation I would look for a good lightly used Winchester model 70 in 7 mm Remington magnum.
After a hunt in may I plan on doing the same thing.