Help me pick a pack

[pontoon]

Yeah I had the Ultra 6000. The bag struggled to compress and control loads as well. The SO packs will control a load much more effectively.

Ok great info thanks. I'll take the KUIU ULTRA packs out of the running. The Icon 3200 is 4 lbs 4 ounces, so I would prefer the Seek Outside or SG packs over that.

 

[PathFinder]

I definitely think you're way better off with those two. Plus you'll get first rate customer service and an American made product.

 

[Beastmode]

If you are not going to be hauling heavy loads why not just get a backpacking pack. They will be lighter, generally cheaper, and you can usually find a good selection at a local mountaineering store. Just food for thought. You don't need a hunting pack just because you are hunting.

 

[pontoon]

If you are not going to be hauling heavy loads why not just get a backpacking pack. They will be lighter, generally cheaper, and you can usually find a good selection at a local mountaineering store. Just food for thought. You don't need a hunting pack just because you are hunting.

I like the idea of a load shelf. It's flexible so you can mix and match pack options. It keeps the meat bag separate from everything else so you don't accidentally get your stuff all bloody. I had read so much about "you need a strong external frame pack for hauling loads". I didn't consider the fact that I can't carry the same weight as some of you guys. I wonder what the max load a 130 lb person could carry who is in decent shape? A deer can still add up to a decent sized load, to the point that I might need two trips if it's big. It'd be boned out meat. You could estimate a 100 lbs load of deer plus gear, and in the worst case (while carrying, best case once it's over) that load could be even higher. I would consider using a top loading backpacking pack if it would offer enough weight reduction while still comfortably and reliably carrying whatever my max load ends up being. I suppose once again Seek Outside makes a pack that he said in a previous post is pretty light, so that might be something I should look into. I would be somewhat concerned about a pack running out of volume after adding meat to a top loader (the meat shelves can really expand a lot of volume). Do you think this could be an issue with a top loader? I read that a boned out deer could take 1500-2000 cubic inches of volume.

 

[Scoot]

Picking a pack based entirely on weight is a bad idea. I would either order the front runners and get your hands on them or find someone local with the frames you are considering and give them a run and see what works best for you

Pontoon, this is the best advice you've been given in this thread (multiple times). You really should stop ignoring it as those who are offering it have a heck of a lot more experience than you.

 

[Beastmode]

A BIG deer is gonna be about 75lbs boned out. Bring a contractor bag to put your game bags in and put everything in the main bag.

 

[pontoon]

Pontoon, this is the best advice you've been given in this thread (multiple times). You really should stop ignoring it as those who are offering it have a heck of a lot more experience than you.

Ok, let's analyze this argument. Sentence one is a straw man. Where did I say I'm picking a pack solely on weight? If I was, I would pick a cuben fiber sack at .5 oz/sq yard. The straps would be made out of cuben fiber as well. It would hold all my gear and a boned out deer for about one second before it tears to pieces. I'm not choosing a pack based entirely on weight. Do I give more significant weight to weight than most? Yes. But Some of these packs like the SG and Seek Outside packs are supposed to be more than comfortable enough, and they're capable of carrying a heavier load than I'm capable of carrying. So if the pack is comfortable, and the pack is capable of doing the job, what's the issue? Does it need to be made of such heavy fabrics that it lasts for ten years of regular hunting? Not for me. I want to go fast and light. I want to be able to cover more ground and enjoy myself more because I'm less burdened by a pack. When I first started climbing I brought a laughable amount of gear with me in a six pound pack. I couldn't keep up with my group on flat ground because they had just what they needed (read: only what they could afford, so maybe not even quite enough) and I had everything I might need and ten things I certainly wouldn't. Once we started doing third class scrambling, it got painful. I needed help to get through it. Since then I've lightened my gear by a ton, and I only take what I need. It's a joy to be able to move about in tough terrain feeling fast as I walk and light as I bound over things.

I'll also mention that sentence two is borderline another fallacy which is to appeal from authority. Having a heck of a lot of experience does not make someone correct. It means that they have experience, and they can certainly validate or invalidate more accurately than I can. However, it doesn't mean their setup is optimal. And even if it is optimal for them, that doesn't mean it's optimal for me. I have my own needs based on experience, my physique, personal tastes and style.

Anyway, apologize for the tangent, but I'm going fast and light. My pack won't fall apart, and even if it does, I'll have a patch kit, gorilla tape, and plenty of cord...

 

[COlineman78]

Good response pontoon. Personally I don't necessarily think that a pound or two difference in the weight of a pack is going to make a difference since the majority weight is distributed near the center of gravity and therefore creates less of a moment and subsequently the perceived added weight isn't the same as weight added to the main body of the pack. That being said, it is obvious that this does matter to you (and many others), so arguing about that part is not very productive. Everyone is different and as far as the top companies (SG, Exo, Kifaru, SO) they are all good and finding something that fits both you and your needs to a T can be a challenge. All of them have amazing customer service and will usually go above and beyond to help you find what you are looking for.

I do however agree with one aspect of Scoot's post. You should post where you live and there are certainly some folks near you that have at least a couple of the brands you are looking at, maybe not the same model but you can get an idea of how they will fit you. On a side note ZPacks and MLD do make a few virtually all Cuben/Dyneema packs which have a max capacity of 35lbs.

 

[Beastmode]

Ok, let's analyze this argument. Sentence one is a straw man. Where did I say I'm picking a pack solely on weight? If I was, I would pick a cuben fiber sack at .5 oz/sq yard. The straps would be made out of cuben fiber as well. It would hold all my gear and a boned out deer for about one second before it tears to pieces. I'm not choosing a pack based entirely on weight. Do I give more significant weight to weight than most? Yes. But Some of these packs like the SG and Seek Outside packs are supposed to be more than comfortable enough, and they're capable of carrying a heavier load than I'm capable of carrying. So if the pack is comfortable, and the pack is capable of doing the job, what's the issue? Does it need to be made of such heavy fabrics that it lasts for ten years of regular hunting? Not for me. I want to go fast and light. I want to be able to cover more ground and enjoy myself more because I'm less burdened by a pack. When I first started climbing I brought a laughable amount of gear with me in a six pound pack. I couldn't keep up with my group on flat ground because they had just what they needed (read: only what they could afford, so maybe not even quite enough) and I had everything I might need and ten things I certainly wouldn't. Once we started doing third class scrambling, it got painful. I needed help to get through it. Since then I've lightened my gear by a ton, and I only take what I need. It's a joy to be able to move about in tough terrain feeling fast as I walk and light as I bound over things.

I'll also mention that sentence two is borderline another fallacy which is to appeal from authority. Having a heck of a lot of experience does not make someone correct. It means that they have experience, and they can certainly validate or invalidate more accurately than I can. However, it doesn't mean their setup is optimal. And even if it is optimal for them, that doesn't mean it's optimal for me. I have my own needs based on experience, my physique, personal tastes and style.

Anyway, apologize for the tangent, but I'm going fast and light. My pack won't fall apart, and even if it does, I'll have a patch kit, gorilla tape, and plenty of cord...

If you already know what pack you want and don't want to take in to consideration other ideas why start a thread saying help me choose a pack?

 

[pontoon]

If you already know what pack you want and don't want to take in to consideration other ideas why start a thread saying help me choose a pack?

I was hoping to learn of a lightweight pack manufacturer or pack model that I didn't know existed. So far no dice. There are two types of people replying to this thread. One is helping me choose the pack they would choose, and one is helping me choose the best pack for me. If you'll read carefully, I didn't ignore everyone. There was some discussion of KUIU packs and I decided against the ULTRA packs. Kevin T also gave some good tips which I'll be thinking about. My perfect pack might not be in production, but if the outcome of the thread is "the closest you'll get is Seek Outside Fortress 4800 at 4 pounds zero ounces" (maybe custom camoflauged somehow or go with the less waterproof camp fabric) that's fine with me. I also expected someone would chime in with a custom pack maker.

 

[Kevin_t]

We offer MultiCam in the Fortress, and it is rugged, and pretty light. In fact, it is my favorite fabric of the ones we offer, just I am not a big fan Camo in general and prefer neutral colors myself. We don't have any recent photos online but will get them the next time we do a shoot. We are low on MultiCam until the next fabric shipment arrives , which will be soon.

The lightest fabric is the Alpine Gray, and it is fine as a hunting fabric unless a lot of rock abrasion / rope hauls are in the plans. Totally fine for tree / brush. In the Sierras , I could see rock abrasion being in the mix.

 

[PathFinder]

Quick question to gauge understanding, have you packed out a deer + gear before? I'm 5'6" 145 and in psycho hiking shape, and packing out a deer and gear whoops me big time. I've done it (and packed out 50+ lb loads of antler and gear) several times. I have the "stay light move fast" philosophy you are talking about as well. All of my gear, equipment, weapons, etc is UL stuff. However it wasn't always that way; I started out with heavy, heavy stuff and quickly found that it sucked. My conclusion is that a touch more weight in a pack system (up to 6lbs, no more) does pay significant dividends primarily when you kill something. A light pack and light gear will allow you to move and hunt as you desire, without being worn out halfway through a long hunt. However, a heavy pack out with a pack that isn't designed for it will be a living hell. My advice based on hundreds of miles of back pack shed hunting and hunting is to go UL with all the rest of your gear, and then make sure to buy a pack that was designed with hauling out a heavy load at the end of a hunt in mind even if it's slightly heavier than the lightest thing on the market. SO and SG make the lightest of those, while a Kifaru UL frame and light pack setup (Tahr for example) will offer, IMO, a good advantage with heavy loads. My buddies and I toyed with backpacking oriented packs (Osprey etc) for a while but found two faults. Although they are great with light loads, they function as a duffel bag more than a pack with loads over 50ish lbs. The frames and waist belts just aren't cut out for it. Second, durability was a serious issue, especially hauling sheds. You'll be very happy to get this purchase right the first time with a tested, hardcore hunting pack. Take it from someone who took four times to get it right Let us know what you decide!

 

[8Crow]

A little plug for Kevin & Angie...they've earned it.

After ordering, loading up with 80 lbs and trying out a Kuiu Ultra 6000, a Kifaru DT1, a Seek Outside Paradox, and several backpacking-style packs including a Mountainsmith Apex 100 and a Kelty Red Cloud (110, I believe), I decided I really don't care for lumbar pads and I do really like the belt design on the Paradox, so for that and several other reasons, I ordered one. The one I tried out was a loaner, just for trying out. Kevin & team have bent over backwards on multiple occasions to accommodate me with this or that as I fine-tune the fit, where the pack rides, etc... I elk hunted with it this fall and have no desire to switch to anything else, just want to put a multi-cam bag and lid on it.

In addition to my experiences, a buddy of mine ordered one of their 8-man tipi's and a stove. A few years ago his pack slid off the back rack of a quad and dragged on the rocks for a bit before the driver realized what had happened. The stove bag was made out of a lighter material back then and it ripped open, losing some parts. In addition, the tipi ended up with some holes in it. We patched & rigged as best we could for the hunt and when we got home he sent it all back along with a mea culpa and some time later he received back a patched, seam sealed tipi, and a new stove bag along with the missing parts, all at no charge. Their customer service is simply phenomenal.

It sounds like you've ruled out the Kuiu already, but for what it's worth, contrast the above with the same buddy in the tipi story. He ordered some merino off the outlet section of Kuiu's site and it sat for a year before he used it the first time. When he did finally use it one time, it developed holes without snagging or any kind of abuse. He contacted them about their lifetime guarantee and they told him to read the fine print: the guarantee didn't apply to outlet items.

 

[UglyJow]

pontoon, let me first say that I am as much of a weight weenie as one can be. My three season BPW runs from 4.25lb to 6.5lb depending on what luxury I want to bring. I've even dabbled in XUL (BPW < 3lb, skin out < 5lb), so I know where you're coming from from low weight/high mobility standpoint. I recently purchased a hunting pack (won't say which, because I don't want to influence you in any way). I did as you and started to look around at low weight packs. I found myself ignoring a lot of poor reviews for some lightweight packs and following a few decent reviews, often from online users who hadn't owned many of the different manufacturers packs or from users who didn't appear to have actually used the hunting packs for significant periods of time for their intended purposes. After a bunch of research I came to realize that I was throwing away good advice from many users who actually used a lot of packs to haul significant weight (80+ lb, so not just the 130+ lbs you are talking about) in order to save 1-2lbs of pack weight, which would account (even when not carrying kill meat) for ~5% of my total pack weight (I carry a treestand, so everything together for a shoulder season hunt sits at about 35-40 lbs for me).

On the chance that I actually managed the hunt of a life, or if I get a chance to hunt elk, I don't want the trip to be ruined or to lose any of my harvest because of a pack failure, particularly because I was intent on saving 2 lbs out of 40 (or even 2 out of 20) on my hike in. Additionally, even a mobile hunter is not covering the 30 miles a day that I might cover backpacking, so that extra 2 lbs is going to be even less noticeable over the 5 -10 miles you may hike on a hunt per day.

I think setting a strict upper limit of 4 lbs is a mistake. My pack comes in at 4 lb, 7.5 oz. For the cost of 7.5 oz I have one of the universally accepted best brands; the pack is modular, I can add things I may decide I need for different hunts readily and easily, the warranty and customer service are expected to be outstanding, and it has a long history of being absolutely bombproof and comfortable even under the worst conditions. On top of that the brand maintains its value and should I ever decide to sell, I will be able to recoup much of the cost of the pack.

Stick to your guns on trying to maintain low weight. But don't stick to your guns on letting an arbitrary number dictate what packs may or may not be under your consideration.

 

[luke moffat]

http://roughsack.com

Since you are not looking for suggestions just pack makers you may or may not have heard of. 4.2 pounds and more space than you could ever need.

Never used one cause my limited backpack hunting experience has lead me to use sturdier pack designs that I found work for me but I won't bore you what I have learned over the years.

Best advice I can give is both stone glacier and seek outside make great packs and the route I would go giving you are limiting your pack choices to packs that light. But you won't read down that far in my reply . Oh yeah I am one of the weird ones who that likes the kuiu icon pro suspension with a ultra bag on it too. All 3 are great options.

Have you backpack hunted before? Or basing your need for the lightest pack by numbers on your spreadsheet? Trust me I've been there

Best of luck to you man and happy hunting.

Good luck in your quest.

 

[pontoon]

Quick question to gauge understanding, have you packed out a deer + gear before?

Nope! I'm sure it'll suck. I assume that I may get stuck making two trips. If so, oh well. One of the spots I'm looking at (second choice) involves a long pack out (11 miles if I can get to a trailhead that requires 4wd, longer otherwise). I also know of a much more accessible spot where you can hike for at least a few miles along a creek hunting the whole way, but I'd expect to see more hunters there. I might be able to use other hunters as pushers, though, and it'd probably be smart to dial in my setup before I do my first pack out at 11 miles.

UglyJow, that's an impressive base weight! I've got a thread in lightweight zone if you have any tips.

Best advice I can give is both stone glacier and seek outside make great packs and the route I would go giving you are limiting your pack choices to packs that light. But you won't read down that far in my reply . Oh yeah I am one of the weird ones who that likes the kuiu icon pro suspension with a ultra bag on it too. All 3 are great options.

Have you backpack hunted before? Or basing your need for the lightest pack by numbers on your spreadsheet? Trust me I've been there

Sorry I didn't read your reply. Interesting that you like the ULTRA on the Icon Pro. Glad to see yet another recommendation for SO and SG. I've never backpack hunted, but I have backpacked and hunted (not at the same time) as well as some sub-alpine mountain climbing and lots of rock climbing (including multi-pitch climbing which includes using packs (albeit weighted with significantly less) on multi-mile approaches at times).

COlineman78, I'm in the San Francisco Bay Area, and I'm new to the area, so I'll have to see if any stores carry any packs so I can try them out. I'm also short on time so I might just pull the trigger based on specs and research.

 

[RdRdrFan]

Best of luck on your pack search.

The only advice I can give is that a novice, in any subject matter or pursuit, is typically best served to ask a question and listen to the answers of those who have significantly more expertise. It doesn't mean that the novice has to do what is recommended. I'm not an expert when it comes to these packs. Far from it. I'm on the search for my first real hunting pack myself. But I can assure you that I will be asking questions and listening to answers. After all, if I have it all figured out....why ask in the first place??

 

[COlineman78]

COlineman78, I'm in the San Francisco Bay Area, and I'm new to the area, so I'll have to see if any stores carry any packs so I can try them out. I'm also short on time so I might just pull the trigger based on specs and research.

It's unlikely that you will find stores that carry any of these. However, hopefully there are some forum members in the bay area that may be able to help you out with a few of these to try on. With Kuiu being so close it couldn't hurt to run over there and just try the Icon Pro and see how you like it. Another option to consider is one that Where's Bruce used this past year with a Kifaru UL, Cargo Panel and UL Dry Bag. I think this comes in at under 5lbs depending on what you add (or bring as far as lash straps), but gives a lot of flexibility.

 

[pontoon]

Best of luck on your pack search.

The only advice I can give is that a novice, in any subject matter or pursuit, is typically best served to ask a question and listen to the answers of those who have significantly more expertise. It doesn't mean that the novice has to do what is recommended. I'm not an expert when it comes to these packs. Far from it. I'm on the search for my first real hunting pack myself. But I can assure you that I will be asking questions and listening to answers. After all, if I have it all figured out....why ask in the first place??

A couple of things. One, I don't know how much experience any given person has when I read their comments. Two, I've synthesized my opinions on these packs entirely from product information, product videos, and quite a bit of reading on forums online where users of the packs comment on what did and didn't work. Once again, I don't know how much experience each given person has. Further, two people who each have experience on the subject matter will often disagree due to personal taste. See this thread, for instance, where some people say something like "ULTRA pack on the Icon Pro is a bad idea" and then another guy who clearly has tried a number of packs says something like "I actually like the ULTRA pack on the Icon Pro". As I said above, I asked in the first place so that I might learn of other options or get help narrowing down from what I've found. So far it looks like I've found most of the sub-4 lbs packs. The number of people chiming in that SG and SO are good is reassuring if nothing else. Quite a few people also argue for Kifaru, and I could potentially do that if I made a frankenpack starting with their suspension.

I'll also tell you an anecdote. I went online years ago and researched the hell out of climbing gear. I showed up at Yosemite with zero experience and a bunch of shiny gear. A gray haired guy a little less than double my age said he'd climb with me to show me the ropes. Once I unloaded my pack he was instantly impressed with my gear selection. I had successfully selected a great assortment of gear (in a 2 lb pack by the way, which is still doing great) which he was envious of. Not because he was out of touch (his gear selection was similar to mine but only a generation older), but because I just had the latest and greatest, and it was overall well thought out. I'm not saying I'll get it perfect on the first try, but my experience is that synthesizing the opinions of others via forums and researching via other methods online can lead to decent buying decisions. Usually better than just showing up in a retail store and asking the clerk who may or may not have a clue what to buy from their limited selection, anyway.

I will admit that saying I won't buy a pack over 4 lbs may be a bit extreme (e.g. if a much better pack existed and weighed 4 lbs 8 ounces, it'd probably be worth it), but it'll be hard to convince me to go for a heavier pack when there are well regarded options at or below 4 lbs.

I don't need the pack ASAP, so I'll read up for a bit and wait and see if any 2016 lineups are announced which include new packs. In the meantime I might even research self-made packs a little bit more. I think it would be cool to tailor a pack perfectly to my needs and size. Imagine a self-made carbon fiber frame molded exactly to the user's back... Now imagine it snapping in half in the field. OK, maybe I won't get too crazy.

 

[pontoon]

It's unlikely that you will find stores that carry any of these. However, hopefully there are some forum members in the bay area that may be able to help you out with a few of these to try on. With Kuiu being so close it couldn't hurt to run over there and just try the Icon Pro and see how you like it. Another option to consider is one that Where's Bruce used this past year with a Kifaru UL, Cargo Panel and UL Dry Bag. I think this comes in at under 5lbs depending on what you add (or bring as far as lash straps), but gives a lot of flexibility.

That custom pack design is pretty similar to the SO Revo/Evo + Fortress + Talon (which has some side pockets and a compression panel pocket which is a bonus). If he did use or would use the Exo beaver tail instead of the Kifaru panel he would save quite a bit of weight.