Help me choose... 223 or 7mm RM

[Ross]

practice with the 223 and take the 7mag…

 

[littlebigtine]

How far are you shooting?

 

[Leaf Litter]

7 RM all day, every day, and twice on whatever days you're hunting.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

then I go out west and talk to guides who see shots on animals week after week all season long, and they tend to scoff at the small cartridge trend and tell endless stories about wounded animals.

You were on the right track until this, which has zero correlation to anything those of us that follow the “recipe” are seeing and doing time after time.

 

[Steve300xcw]

How far are you shooting?

all the way to the elk

 

[Steve300xcw]

then I go out west and talk to guides who see shots on animals week after week all season long, and they tend to scoff at the small cartridge trend and tell endless stories about wounded animals.

It amuses me, how one can dismiss the opinion of so many people. Just because they dont get paid to babysit adults.

 

[littlebigtine]

all the way to the elk

Then 223

 

[cole96]

7mm. 162 Eldx, 168 Berger or whatever you prefer. Do some research on those who have killed lots of elk and see their feedback

 

[Lawnboi]

You were on the right track until this, which has zero correlation to anything those of us that follow the “recipe” are seeing and doing time after time.

A quick search leads to 12-15% of hunters in Wyoming are going guiding. Way more diy guys that somehow don’t get held in the same regard.

 

[Pony Soldier]

Both will hit well but the 7RM will compensate for your mistakes. I've killed a lot with broadside shots that were diagonal shots when the smoke cleared.

 

[MoeFaux]

despite all the opinions on here, I'm far from sold on 223 on larger game. I read Rokslide and start to think I'm convinced, then I go out west and talk to guides who see shots on animals week after week all season long, and they tend to scoff at the small cartridge trend and tell endless stories about wounded animals

It amuses me, how one can dismiss the opinion of so many people. Just because they dont get paid to babysit adults.

A quick search leads to 12-15% of hunters in Wyoming are going guiding. Way more diy guys that somehow don’t get held in the same regard.

The difference between guides and diy'ers is simply in sample size. A guide may see more large game shot in a year than most diy'ers will in a lifetime. It gives them more data upon which to base a logical conclusion, so I weigh their conclusions a little heavier when making my own. I didn't dismiss the other opinions. . . I just adopted a different one.

If you are making ethical kills with your small cartridge, then good for you and happy hunting. In a post asking for opinions, I simply stated mine. If the OP, like me, is comfortable and accurate with his bigger boom stick, then I feel it gives up little to nothing for the extra insurance it provides.

 

[RockAndSage]

The difference between guides and diy'ers is simply in sample size. A guide may see more large game shot in a year than most diy'ers will in a lifetime. It gives them more data upon which to base a logical conclusion, so I weigh their conclusions a little heavier when making my own. I didn't dismiss the other opinions. . . I just adopted a different one.

If you are making ethical kills with your small cartridge, then good for you and happy hunting. In a post asking for opinions, I simply stated mine. If the OP, like me, is comfortable and accurate with his bigger boom stick, then I feel it gives up little to nothing for the extra insurance it provides.

A few points that seem to be getting lost, or perhaps weren't picked up in threads talking specifically about this issue:

1) Shot placement rules everything - and virtually nobody advocating .223 started off that way. It's always the same story "I experimented with .223, realized I inherently shot better with less recoil, I shot a lot more because it was more pleasant, and because it was so much cheaper I shot a lot more on top of that. It's become a virtuous cycle, and I just kill better with the .223."

2) Guides are authorities on 1 thing = finding animals. Their data set on clients is not a trued-up data set on accomplished hunters, or accomplished shooters, or deep and varied data on different bullet designs and their terminal effects. But the more experience a guide has, the more they'll be noticing the guys shooting magnums are more rodeo-prone. Because shot placement. And even just basically competent guides will tell a client to shoot a second time if an elk is still standing - including if they know the first shot went right into the vitals. That doesn't change with a 30-378 Weatherby or a 77gr TMK. What does change is how fast a shooter can get a second round on target - accurately.

3) Bullet construction is a major factor in this discussion. Nobody's advocating m193 ball, or 55gr soft-points as ".223 is great for elk!". The data and broad, distributed experience is almost entirely related to long, heavy-for-caliber bullets, predominantly of the tipped match variety. That's fundamentally important to understand. Because those same bullets, above around 6.5mm, start doing so much damage that a shoulder hit is ruining entire shoulders and more from raw destruction and bloodshot. The .223 and 6mm tipped match bullets seem to be a sweet-spot in damage, with the distance you want to hunt being the biggest driver in what casing is best to propel them with.


Each of these points needs to be considered, in any discussion about small caliber choice.

 

[littlebigtine]

The difference between guides and diy'ers is simply in sample size. A guide may see more large game shot in a year than most diy'ers will in a lifetime. It gives them more data upon which to base a logical conclusion, so I weigh their conclusions a little heavier when making my own. I didn't dismiss the other opinions. . . I just adopted a different one.

If you are making ethical kills with your small cartridge, then good for you and happy hunting. In a post asking for opinions, I simply stated mine. If the OP, like me, is comfortable and accurate with his bigger boom stick, then I feel it gives up little to nothing for the extra insurance it provides.

The argument for smaller cartridges is that there is no “extra insurance” by simply using a larger cartridge. Bullet choice is the single most important decision when determining the potential wound size from a shot. A 77 tmk at 1800 fps will almost certainly create a larger wound channel then a 155 terminal ascent going the same speed. Broadside shot presentation.

To simply say that a 7 RM is more effective at killing an animal is wrong.

And that is only when considering the variables related to the system outside the effective accuracy of the person wielding the system.

I could go on to explain to you the benefits of a smaller recoiling cartridge but I am sure it has been explained to you before.