Heavy Arrow Workups - Follow up #2

[wildernessmaster]

For reference here are the two previous posts to go read as well:
#1 https://www.rokslide.com/forums/thr...-insert-and-broadhead-recommendations.173462/
#2 https://www.rokslide.com/forums/threads/heavy-arrow-workups-follow-up-1.176317/#post-1701274

Life has put me behind the power curve... Some professional things have taken up more of my time, some farm things as well. That said, I am continuing to work the problem.

As noted in #2 post, after input I received from the Roksliders on here, I settled in on trying out these arrows...

Candidate Arrows
---------------------
Day6 HD 300
Day6 HD 250
Axis 5mm Match Pro 300
Axis 5mm Match Pro 260
Black Eagle Spartan 300
Black Eagle Spartan 250
Gold Tip Hunter XT 300
Gold Tip Hunter XT 250 (wasn't sure I was going to get this one!)

I also have 240 Grizzly Stix so I will include them as well. That said these were pre-fletch, cut, etc arrows.

With each of these, other than the Day6 (which came with their own), I bought Ethics Archery inserts of at least 100 gr for each. The Day6 In/Outs weigh in at 100 gr.

In #2 post I posted some weight observations about the above shafts (bare). In this post I want to share my observations about the quality, and finish of each arrow. I have to say, I have found a VAST difference in the quality, finish, and consistency. Given this factor and the rapidly approaching season, I am going to bare shaft tune 1 (maybe 2) of these arrows, and save the rest for post season. I need to get some killing arrows done!

Up front, I want to acknowledge many of you are going to get your panties in a bit of wad. In the responses to my previous posts, it was clear that is some serious arrow "love" out there. These ARE JUST my observations and choices. If you have had different - more power to you! I got at best 2 arrows to base these observations on so forgive me if your 3 dozen differ!

Arrow Observations & Choices
---------------------------------
If I had to rank these from best to worst, here is the quick version of it. Below that I will provide my observations that lead to this order.
1 (top) Easton Axis 5mm
2 Day 6 HD
3 Gold Tip Hunter XT
4 Black Eagle Spartan
5 (still) Grizzly Stinks

Easton Axis 5mm
------------------
1. Very good feel to these arrows quality wise
2. During cutting to length these didn't splinter, the cuts were clean and little clean up work required.
3. Inserts fits were consistent.
4. On an arrow spinner these had less overall wobble up/down the arrow
5. Decent priced. About in the middle per shaft.

Day6 HD
----------
1. A bit smaller diameter than I like for building a lot of weight on the end. With (2) I was also a bit concerned about the durability.
2. Quality was pretty good on these. Other than noted issues similar to Axis
3. During cutting the outer laminate peeled back quite a bit. The arrows cut hard - even going slow the last cut was more of a "break".
4. Their inserts were a bit loose, their outers as well.
5. Similar to Axis on spinner
6. A more expensive arrow.
7. Seems like (I may be wrong) but you have to use their parts (inserts, et al).

Gold Tip Hunter XT
---------------------
1. Quality noticeably less than previous two arrows.
2. Traditional diameter arrow
3. During cutting they wanted to splinter badly and had to clean the outside/insides up quite a bit.
4. Arrow spinner showed a observable wobble but it was consistent up/down the shaft.
5. All said the inserts seemed to consistently fit the same across the 4 arrows.
6. One of the least expensive arrows

Black Eagle Spartan
----------------------
1. Quality was poor. Even the graphics on the arrow were cheap and worn off looking.
2. Traditional diameter arrow.
3. During cutting they wanted to splinter (badly). One arrow ended up probably not being serviceable. Lots of inside and outside clean up required.
4. Arrow spinner showed considerable and random wobble up/down the shaft. Given the random aspect I doubt these would be accurate.
5. Inserts fit was totally all over the place. Even after clean up, some fit good, some loose, some I had to open up the shaft.
6. One of the more expensive arrows.

Grizzly Six
----------
1. On the outside the arrows look amazing. Tight clean and very polished
2. Even with inner/outers, I broke two arrows off shooting field points into targets. The only thing they could have hit was another field point (in the target) or the wooden frame. Given this, doubt they would live up to breaking bone.
3. The tapered arrow makes it impossible to spin test.
4. Of a dozen and half, more than a third just don't shoot right. Period. They fly all over the place.
5. Durability has sucked. Not a single "animal" shot, and just practice shooting more than half are non-shootable now.
6. Wallet suck expensive.

Gotta say, I have never been an Easton lover (or hater) but the Axis have impressed me. Day 6's are not bad but the price/proprietary factor kind of makes me iffy given the experience with Grizzly Stinks.

I will be working up the Axis arrows from 100 gr - 300 gr and see what I find. More to come.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Differences in straightness tolerance could be influencing your perceived differences in arrow quality. Day Six and Axis Match Grade are ±0.001", GT Hunter XT and GrizzlyStik are ±0.003", and BE Spartans are offered in ±0.001" and ±0.003". Spin testing before cutting and/or cutting both ends can help improve straightness of the finished arrow, but more wobble should be expected from a ±0.003" shaft than a ±0.001" shaft.

You may have already tried this, but roll-cutting (instead of holding the shaft stationary and pushing the blade through) might reduce splintering tendency.

I'm surprised by your GrizzlyStik durability issues. I bought a dozen GrizzlyStik 240's in 2018 and have shot them all hundreds of times since then. One got snapped in the process of killing a cow elk (front half of the arrow was protruding out the offside shoulder when she ran), but the rest are still in perfect shape, including a few that I've (unintentionally) shot directly into the 2x6 lumber backstop behind my target. Perhaps their quality control has declined since my purchase. Even though I've been happy with my batch of GrizzlyStiks, I probably wouldn't buy them again nor recommend them to others due to their high price. I initially drank the Kool-Aid on the tapered design but have since concluded that the supposed benefit isn't worth the extra expense.

 

[wildernessmaster]

Differences in straightness tolerance could be influencing your perceived differences in arrow quality. Day Six and Axis Match Grade are ±0.001", GT Hunter XT and GrizzlyStik are ±0.003", and BE Spartans are offered in ±0.001" and ±0.003". Spin testing before cutting and/or cutting both ends can help improve straightness of the finished arrow, but more wobble should be expected from a ±0.003" shaft than a ±0.001" shaft.

You may have already tried this, but roll-cutting (instead of holding the shaft stationary and pushing the blade through) might reduce splintering tendency.

I'm surprised by your GrizzlyStik durability issues. I bought a dozen GrizzlyStik 240's in 2018 and have shot them all hundreds of times since then. One got snapped in the process of killing a cow elk (front half of the arrow was protruding out the offside shoulder when she ran), but the rest are still in perfect shape, including a few that I've (unintentionally) shot directly into the 2x6 lumber backstop behind my target. Perhaps their quality control has declined since my purchase. Even though I've been happy with my batch of GrizzlyStiks, I probably wouldn't buy them again nor recommend them to others due to their high price. I initially drank the Kool-Aid on the tapered design but have since concluded that the supposed benefit isn't worth the extra expense.

I knew the Axis were .001, and figured the Day 6's were. Having done some precision milling work, the difference in .003 and .001 was about right for the GT. The Spartan it was more than expected, and the randomness up down the shaft was really unexpected. None of the others exhibited that type of weirdness.

I had 4 shafts of two different weights for all arrows but the GS. If any arrow showed any signs of bad cutting, I took great care, rolled, and went slow and gentle on the cutting.

On the GS's. I bought them about the same time. In the first 100 shots, I broke two off behind or in the tip shooting their 200 gr field tips into targets at a commercial range. Each time I checked the target and couldn't find anything obvious it hit to break it.

From day one, a third of the arrows just shot badly. At first I thought it was me. It actually drove me nuts trying to work up some bows. To this day some of those 1/3 surviving arrows still shoot like crap - every single shot. It is almost like some harmonic or weight balance on the arrow as you can see coming off the bow it is going wonky. I can take all the GS arrows I have (still about a dozen), and put 8 of them dead center (now I have worked up my bows with other arrows) and 4 will be off randomly. Of the 8 dead center you never see any significant number of the 8 hitting square they are all at angles. My Vic TKO VAPs I get large percentages of them square in my target.

Additionally, my TKOs I have shot probably 10x more than the grizzly's and they still shoot fine. The grizzlys are showing wear and unserviceability.

On another note, I also drank the 200 grain single bevel massai G-Stinks koolaid. Over half the ones I received had to be sharpened heavily. In fact a few have become practice points because they just don't sharpen well.

 

[5MilesBack]

What were you using to cut the arrows? I have never had an arrow shaft splinter from cutting it, and I've cut many many dozens over the years. And I use my Dremel tool to cut arrows. As suggested above........you definitely want to roll the arrow while you're cutting it.......don't use a chop saw technique.

My .001" Spartans are decent.........just less durable than my other arrows. But they all shoot well, and spin true with BH's on a spinner.

 

[wildernessmaster]

What were you using to cut the arrows? I have never had an arrow shaft splinter from cutting it, and I've cut many many dozens over the years. And I use my Dremel tool to cut arrows. As suggested above........you definitely want to roll the arrow while you're cutting it.......don't use a chop saw technique.

My .001" Spartans are decent.........just less durable than my other arrows. But they all shoot well, and spin true with BH's on a spinner.

I have a micro chop saw (like a dremel version). Have used it to cut a lot of very delicate items. I can roll, as well as go slow moving through the material. I also tried in the case of GT and Spartan a razor sharp pipe cutter type tool where you have to roll and went slow and light. Either produced bad results with those two arrows.

I was actually excited and hoped the Spartans would work. Had heard some good things about them But the .003 Spartans are $2-3 more than the 5mm Axis matches.

 

[5MilesBack]

I was actually excited and hoped the Spartans would work. Had heard some good things about them But the .003 Spartans are $2-3 more than the 5mm Axis matches.

I found my Spartans online with free shipping for $115 for the .001" from some hog hunting outfit in TX a few months back.